Butler Wins Tough Recruiting Battle

Butler coach Chris Holtmann just won his most impressive recruiting battle yet. Earlier today 4 star forward Kyle Young became the 3rd commitment for the Butler Bulldogs in the 2017 class. Young was on campus this past weekend for an official visit.

The 6’7″ forward out of Massillon, Ohio is ranked 89th in the country by ESPN and 84th by Scout. He held 13 high major offers before narrowing his list down to Purdue, Michigan, Clemson, and Ohio State back in July. Ohio State was the heavy favorite to land Young according the the 247 Sports crystal ball (our own Tyler Hicks was the lone analyst to predict Butler).

Young is a versatile forward who can play either forward position. He averaged 19 points and 6 rebounds per game last high school season while shooting 53 percent from the floor and 41 percent from distance. Kyle played for King James this summer in the Nike EYBL, a league heralded as the top “AAU” circuit. In 20 games he averaged 15.5 points and 8 rebounds per game, both team highs. Butler has now landed a player from King James for 3 consecutive seasons (Nate Fowler ’13, Henry Baddley ’14).

Kyle Young joins 3 stars Cooper Neese and Jerald Butler in the 2017 class. It’s still extremely early, but the commitment of Young bumps the Bulldogs up to 14th overall and 4th in the Big East in the 247 Sports composite rankings. If Butler were to add no one else they would finish with a rating just slightly above the 2016 class that had a final rank of 45th nationally and 5th in the Big East. Butler has 2 more spots available though and is currently the unanimous selection to land top 100 players Wabissa Bede and Christian David. The addition of either would almost undoubtedly secure their best recruiting class ever and the addition of both would likely see Butler earn their first ever top 25 recruiting class.

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804 thoughts on “Butler Wins Tough Recruiting Battle

  1. Corey Albertson ‏@Corey_Albertson  Sep 2

    '17 Massillon Jackson SF Kyle Young will unofficially visit Michigan, Purdue and Butler this month, per his AAU coach.

  2. Corey Albertson ‏@Corey_Albertson  Sep 2

    '17 Massillon Jackson SF Kyle Young will unofficially visit Michigan, Purdue and Butler this month, per his AAU coach.

    Evan Flood ‏@Evan_Flood  Sep 10

    2017 SF Kyle Young will visit #Michigan on Saturday, Butler on Wednesday, and #Purdue next Saturday.

  3. Corey Albertson ‏@Corey_Albertson  2h2 hours ago

    Butler watched '17 Akron Ellet PF AJ Gareri today.

    Corey Albertson ‏@Corey_Albertson  10h10 hours ago

    Butler and West Virginia will watch '17 Massillon Jackson SF Kyle Young today.

    Corey Albertson ‏@Corey_Albertson  Sep 15

    Butler watched '17 Cincinnati Moeller SF Keegan McDowell today, per a source.

  4. Zach Fleer ‏@ZachFleerLGHL  2h2 hours ago

    Butler head coach Chris Holtmann is in Ohio today checking out '16 commit Henry Baddley (STVM) and '17 F Kyle Young (Massillon Jackson)

    Corey Albertson ‏@Corey_Albertson  10h10 hours ago

    UNC Charlotte head coach Mark Price will watch '17 Massillon Jackson SF Kyle Young today.

  5. Corey Albertson ‏@Corey_Albertson  Oct 5

    '17 Massillon Jackson SF Kyle Young will unofficially visit Xavier and West Virginia this week.

    ——

    From last week…..

  6. starting to feel a little concerned with this class. wouldve hoped at least something would look promising at this point

    LMFAO…  What looked "promising" in regards to the 2016 class at this stage last year?  It'll be okay.

  7. LMFAO…  What looked "promising" in regards to the 2016 class at this stage last year?  It'll be okay.

    At this point last year there was more of a legitimate reason to be concerned.  Right now there's a ton of time left and still tons and tons of guys available, and while I still don't necessarily expect Butler to get many, if any Top 50 type of players, they should still be able to get plenty of talent to compete in the Big East for 2017.  Right now they'll have 9 scholarship guys for 2017-2018, and I'd expect at least one of the 4 available scholarships to be filled with some type of transfer considering how young the backcourt will still be that year.  Agree with FUK, tons of time left to piece together this class.

  8. LMFAO…  What looked "promising" in regards to the 2016 class at this stage last year?  It'll be okay.

    Very few people, even loyal followers on this board, understand how the recruiting cycle works.  Year after year, panic strikes people WAAAAAAAY to early.

    If the calendar hits 8/1/16 and Butler has zero 2017 commitments, THEN start panickin. But even then realize there is time to salvage it.

    Worrying about 2017 right now is beyond ridiculous.

  9. Corey Evans ‏@coreyevans_10  4h4 hours ago

    Garfield Heights knocks of Jackson. Kyle Young led losing bunch with 17 points from the field. Versatile forward with shot making skills

    Brian Snow ‏@BSnowScout  4h4 hours ago

    Garfield Heights over Massillon Jackson. Good games from Frankie Hughes and Kyle Young

    Josh Weir ‏@jweirREP  4h4 hours ago

    Kyle Young 19p 9r, Logan Hill 14p 11r 4b for #Jackson, which was just 2-for-13 from arc. M.Jackson 16p for GH. W.Jackson 14p 17r. Hughes 13p

  10. Sounds like it could come down to us and Michigan.  My main concern is if/when Mack and the rest of those tools over in Cincy get involved with Young.  I think he would be perfect to step in once Wideman graduates in 2018, assuming we don't get JJJ.

  11. What are the quotes?

    I won't post the exact quotes out of respect to the author who has it as premium content, but the takeaway is basically that Butler is really making him a priority for the class.

  12. So does it pretty much come down to him or Gunn for a spot? Are they similar enough players?

    I've seen Gunn multiple times, but I've never seen Young. I really don't view them as all that similar, but there certainly is a lot of overlap in their position. With Baddley also competing for time in the class in front I would be surprised if they wanted both Gunn and Young.

  13. I won't post the exact quotes out of respect to the author who has it as premium content, but the takeaway is basically that Butler is really making him a priority for the class.

    Thanks

  14. Corey Albertson ‏@Corey_Albertson  4h4 hours ago

    Final: Massillon Jackson 73 Springfield 54 – '17 F Kyle Young scored 18 pts with WVU, Butler and Maryland watching.

    Brian Snow ‏@BSnowScout  5h5 hours ago

    Bob Huggins is joined by assistants from Butler and Maryland for Kyle Young

    Justin Young ‏@JustinDYoung  4h4 hours ago

    2017 PF Massillon Jackson Kyle Young is very intriguing. Good skill. Could see him as a spring priority guy for number of programs.

  15. D1 Circuit ‏@D1Circuit  · 19h19 hours ago 

    2017 Massillon Jackson (OH) F Kyle Young (@kyleyoung3144) will run with King James in the 2016 NIKE EYBL @KingJamesAAU #WelcomeToTheCircuit

  16. Butler was in on him early, so he likes them for that, he enjoyed his visit to Michigan and likes their style of play, so he considers that to be a big offer, and also considers Purdue, Xavier, Wisconsin and Clemson as the top schools recruiting him.  He doesn't have a leader right now but is planning on whittling them down during AAU and making a decision before his senior season.

  17. Have to worry about a spot commitment there I think.

    Edit: just looked at that link. Didn't realize you were referring to Easley, thought you were referring to Young (as in, local for you or something).

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  18. Evan Daniels @EvanDaniels  

    Brian Bowen, of La Lumiere, met with John Beilein and Tom Izzo yesterday. Steve Alford will be in to see him today.

    —–

    5 star Top 20 SF per 247

  19. Kyle Young – 2017 Forward (Offered)

    At least we were in on him early? Doesn't look good in terms of the competition.

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  20. Young had HMs all over the place watching him this weekend.

    He's a legit 6'7 with a VERY good outside shot. King James runs alot of high ball screen action where he is the recipient of the pass back for the 3 look. Young knows how to run that in his sleep. I can see why Butler wants him.  He's perfect for that action in Butler's offense. He's kind of Pete Campbell or Austin Etherington on steroids. Just a higher quality of player but has the same skillset as those two.

    Young is willing to get dirty inside too. Pretty good rebounder for his position. Sets a mean screen too. He's probably a stretch 4 in college. His footspeed is probably his biggest detriment. Not sure he can guard 3's in college.

  21. Butlerfan's recap is pretty well-done.

    Young will be a big mismatch problem in college. Kris Jenkins type player. Shoots it well, I also saw him hit both a right and left baby hook in the post. Ball-handling is above-average for a 4 (a la Chrabascz – who was there to watch on Saturday).

    I'd agree that he's 6'7" with a good frame to add some strength too. Etherington is the best body type comp – I think they are pretty similar athletically too.

    Young is a BIG BIG priority for Butler. Holtmann and Co. really like his game.

  22. How would you rank Negron, Platek and Young? Which do you think we have the best chance of landing?

    In terms of who I would want:

    1. Young

    2. Platek

    3. Negron

    Chances:

    1/2. I think Young and Platek are pretty close. Both are going to end up with some big offers. Butler is in a good spot with both, but just very hard to tell how it will play out.

    3. Negron

  23. In terms of who I would want:

    1. Young

    2. Platek

    3. Negron

    Chances:

    1/2. I think Young and Platek are pretty close. Both are going to end up with some big offers. Butler is in a good spot with both, but just very hard to tell how it will play out.

    3. Negron

    Platek over Negron? For real? Not saying you're wrong (and I haven't watched either live) but that really surprises me.

  24. How does this kid compare to Dekker?  Similar size and body type?  Dekker more athletic?

    Definitely different body types and approach to the game. Dekker is longer and a little less burly, but definitely more of a leaper and explosive athlete. He also was more of a slasher and finisher near the rim. It took him a while to develop his shot, and he never really became a consistent 3 point threat. Young will be more of a stretch 4 where as Dekker was an Andre Igoudala style 3 who happened to play the 4 in college because of necessity and his long frame.

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  25. Definitely different body types and approach to the game. Dekker is longer and a little less burly, but definitely more of a leaper and explosive athlete. He also was more of a slasher and finisher near the rim. It took him a while to develop his shot, and he never really became a consistent 3 point threat. Young will be more of a stretch 4 where as Dekker was an Andre Igoudala style 3 who happened to play the 4 in college because of necessity and his long frame.

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    Thanks!

  26. Apparently the chick wants him to go to Ohio State if not there then MSU.

    It was interesting when she asked him "You do want to play in the Big Ten, don't you" and he didn't  necessarily say "yeah I want to do that." lol

    This Young cat seems to be smart. Handles himself well in interviews. He has a pretty good idea what he is looking for in a school, how they play and what his role would be. He is an extremely good stretch 4. Lethal outside J.

  27. Don't you love interviewers that don't hide their biases?   Loved it when she skipped over Butler and went back to the Big 10 and then when she didn't get the answer she wanted she asked about Florida.

  28. Says he could make a decision as early as the beginning of the summer or as late as the start of his senior year. 

    He definitely didn't seem mesmerized by the Big 10 offers he has and seems focused on finding the best overall fit. Bodes well. If I had to guess right now it'll be Michigan or us.

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  29. I doubt that Butler will be in the Edit. Better chance on getting Kris Wilkes instead in my opinion.

    I disagree. Kids usually put like 8-10 schools on their first list cut. I'd be surprised if Butler wasn't on there.

  30. I doubt that Butler will be in the Edit. Better chance on getting Kris Wilkes instead in my opinion.

    Butler almost certainly will be in that edit unless it includes just 2 or 3 schools (it won't).

  31. Butler almost certainly will be in that edit unless it includes just 2 or 3 schools (it won't).

    Correct.

    Like you said previously, that he wants to make his decision semi quickly…. I'm looking to see about 4 to 5 schools….

    Ohio State

    Michigan State

    Michigan

    Clemson/Florida

    Bulter

    Davidson/Xavier?

    I just watch the rival interview and liked how he mention Butler fairly quickly so I might take back what I said. Butler will make the top 5 but the top 3/4 would be pushing it. Just with his decision coming within 3-4 months, I don't see a a lot of teams on the list.

  32. Correct.

    Like you said previously, that he wants to make his decision semi quickly…. I'm looking to see about 4 to 5 schools….

    Ohio State

    Michigan State

    Michigan

    Clemson/Florida

    Bulter

    Davidson/Xavier?

    I just watch the rival interview and liked how he mention Butler fairly quickly so I might take back what I said. Butler will make the top 5 but the top 3/4 would be pushing it. Just with his decision coming within 3-4 months, I don't see a a lot of teams on the list.

    Oh just to be clear I think we're pretty likely to be in a top 2 or 3 as well, whenever that'd happen.  Just saying that the only way we could possibly be left out at this point is if he includes just a few school, but there will be more than just a couple on his list for now.  I'd bet this month's checks we're on whatever list comes out soon.

    We're in solid shape here.  Not saying we'll necessarily get him (not even KY knows that yet), but I think we've got as good of a chance as anyone at this point, save for possibly Michigan.

  33. in reality it would be better for butler to get cut if they arent going to get him (theyre not). there really isnt a lot of time in july all things considered and whatever time saved could be better served elsewhere

  34. in reality it would be better for butler to get cut if they arent going to get him (theyre not). there really isnt a lot of time in july all things considered and whatever time saved could be better served elsewhere

    Asking because you tend to conflate "not probable" with "no chance": Title, that you?

  35. My guess, in no order:

    Butler

    Ohio State

    Michigan State

    Michigan

    West Virginia

    Purdue

    Florida

    NC State

    Kansas

    He has said in some interviews that the cut will be around 10 schools.

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  36. My guess, in no order:

    Butler

    Ohio State

    Michigan State

    Michigan

    West Virginia

    Purdue

    Florida

    NC State

    Kansas

    He has said in some interviews that the cut will be around 10 schools.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    The video was very biased, and the reporter completely ignored that he mentioned Butler first in the "other schools category." He talked most about Ohio State, Michigan State and Florida because he was asked about them. I think Butler being at the top of your list is reasonable.

  37. Butler makes his top 10. Only big east school

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    There could always be more to it than we realize, but it would seem really odd for an Ohio prospect with lots of big ten offers and an offer to Florida to bolt to Clemson or NC State. I'm looking at this as a final 8.

  38. Is Florida really much of a draw post-Donovan?

    Too many good options near him unless he really loves the Florida weather.

    Oh to be clear I don't think he'll go to Florida either. I'm just saying if he wants to go to a big school in the south to play basketball, out of those three, you go to Florida. My point is just that whatever reasons that could make him want to go to Clemson or NC State would probably make him want Florida even more.

  39. Butler, Clemson, Florida, Michigan, Michigan St., North Carolina St., Ohio State, Purdue, West Virginia, Wisconsin

    This is a hell of a list. Good problem for this kid to have. Figured we would at least make this one. I still think we have a legit chance with this kid, but I would guess we'll finish somewhere around third when it's all over.

    If he wants to end this fairly quickly — like it seems — he will probably make a cut to five here in about a month.

  40. Butler, Clemson, Florida, Michigan, Michigan St., North Carolina St., Ohio State, Purdue, West Virginia, Wisconsin

    This is a hell of a list. Good problem for this kid to have. Figured we would at least make this one. I still think we have a legit chance with this kid, but I would guess we'll finish somewhere around third when it's all over.

    If he wants to end this fairly quickly — like it seems — he will probably make a cut to five here in about a month.

    One of those schools is decidedly different from the others..

    Doesn't mean he will pick us.  But if he decides against a big, state school, we win.  Simple as that.

  41. Oh to be clear I don't think he'll go to Florida either. I'm just saying if he wants to go to a big school in the south to play basketball, out of those three, you go to Florida. My point is just that whatever reasons that could make him want to go to Clemson or NC State would probably make him want Florida even more.

    Even with Florida's '00s success under Donovan, it still doesn't have much of a basketball culture. NC State, despite its prolonged mediocrity, still has a great basketball atmosphere and Gottfried has proven to be a slick recruiter. I could easily see a Midwestern kid getting suckered into the appeal of State.

  42. Even with Florida's '00s success under Donovan, it still doesn't have much of a basketball culture. NC State, despite its prolonged mediocrity, still has a great basketball atmosphere and Gottfried has proven to be a slick recruiter. I could easily see a Midwestern kid getting suckered into the appeal of State.

    That's fair, florida is not and never will be a "basketball" school – just like Ohio State.  But that doesn't mean they can't have a ton of appeal to recruits, especially vis a vis schools that are similar in size and location (even though the Illinois faithful probably cares a lot more than OSU, OSU is often going to out-recruit them).  And from an outsider's perspective, NC State doesn't really have any unique appeal.  It doesn't stand out academically, athletically or in size or location (there are a lot of big state schools in the south and on his list), and it seems like they've had a lot of transfers lately, so I'm not sure how good the culture within the program is either (I'm not doubting the fans love it; I'm talking about inside the actual program).  So, if NC State is your only high major offer – sure, jump all over it.  Or if it's the only HM offer you've got within 200 miles of home, or the only big state school offer you've got, etc.  But he's got too good of a list to go somewhere that doesn't stand out in any way from the others.

    Florida stands out (huge, rowdy, warm), OSU stands out (home), Butler stands out (the only small, private school; exceptional program culture), Michigan stands out (elite academics, close to home), MSU stands out (no explanation needed).

    Purdue and Wisconsin don't really stand out among that list as it relates to him.  I'd eliminate them too if I'm just spit-balling my own crystal ball predictions for this one (and I really like both of those programs).

  43. First of all, congrats to the kid. That's an impressive list no matter where he picks.

    I agree that culture/tradition of a program may not have as much of an impact as what he wants to study and the staff/relationship with player. C.J. Walker picked FSU and they have very little basketball tradition. Probably other recent names we can think of in that scenario as well.

    It wouldn't surprise me to see Florida or NC State make the cut because they are different conferences in that group. It's the Wisconsin-Purdue-Michigan that looks the same to me on the surface (e.g. all middle of the pack Big Ten bball schools, Midwest location, similar educational offerings, similar size, cold weather). I like we're the only small school – it's a huge differentiator.

  44. First of all, congrats to the kid. That's an impressive list no matter where he picks.

    I agree that culture/tradition of a program may not have as much of an impact as what he wants to study and the staff/relationship with player. C.J. Walker picked FSU and they have very little basketball tradition. Probably other recent names we can think of in that scenario as well.

    It wouldn't surprise me to see Florida or NC State make the cut because they are different conferences in that group. It's the Wisconsin-Purdue-Michigan that looks the same to me on the surface (e.g. all middle of the pack Big Ten bball schools, Midwest location, similar educational offerings, similar size, cold weather). I like we're the only small school – it's a huge differentiator.

    Wisconsin middle of the pack? Two Final Fours (including a title game appearance) and a Sweet Sixteen in the last three years. I know losing Bo Ryan is going to hurt a little but IIRC their recruiting hasn't fallen off much. I'd be worried about Wisconsin here. No inside knowledge, just a hunch.

  45. One of those schools is decidedly different from the others..

    Doesn't mean he will pick us.  But if he decides against a big, state school, we win.  Simple as that.

    Also notable that Butler is the only private school on his list.

  46. Who would you be pissed/surprised if they beat us out in this recruiting battle?

    In descending order I would say:

    1. Clemson

    2. NC ST

    3. West Virginia

    4. Florida

    Given what we know about this kid, the programs he listed and where he is from, I think only those four would really ruffle my feathers and make me question Holtmann as a recruiter.

  47. Tyler, guys, I think he's good, but I'm not all in on 6'7 HS power forwards.  What's his position at a high major?  I'm not digging him, just asking what everyone thinks his future is.

  48. Tyler, guys, I think he's good, but I'm not all in on 6'7 HS power forwards.  What's his position at a high major?  I'm not digging him, just asking what everyone thinks his future is.

    The greatest Dawg ever was a 6-7 center/PF. As another example, chrab may be just 6-6 and lacks the springs and jump shot KY has, and he's still been a good player for us.

    Yeah, ideally you'd rather have him be a couple of inches taller. But this is college, not the NBA. 6-7 will be more than fine as a stretch four, especially with a true 6-10/6-11 guy anchoring the post.

  49. Who would you be pissed/surprised if they beat us out in this recruiting battle?

    In descending order I would say:

    1. Clemson

    2. NC ST

    3. West Virginia

    4. Florida

    Given what we know about this kid, the programs he listed and where he is from, I think only those four would really ruffle my feathers and make me question Holtmann as a recruiter.

    None of them would piss me off or make me question Coach Holtmann. They've all got their positives, which are all different from Butler's positives, and I have no idea what's going to be more appealing to this particular kid.

    The only one that would surprise me is Clemson because as much as I like Brad Brownell, I don't see them ever being an NCAA tourney regular.

  50. Tyler, guys, I think he's good, but I'm not all in on 6'7 HS power forwards.  What's his position at a high major?  I'm not digging him, just asking what everyone thinks his future is.

    I've never seen Young play, so help me out board, but I was kind of hoping he would be Sam Dekker…

  51. His King James Shooting Stars teammate, Markell Johnson, just signed with N.C. State. Might explain part of the interest there.

    http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/article84938362.html

    Nice catch.

    That makes for quite a nice 2016 class for NC State.  That commitment sure confuses me though. Markell Johnson is a 4-star point guard with a handful of high major options….so commits to a school that has already signed a 5 star point guard in the same class year as him?  Huh?

    What is he thinking?

  52. Nice catch.

    That makes for quite a nice 2016 class for NC State.  That commitment sure confuses me though. Markell Johnson is a 4-star point guard with a handful of high major options….so commits to a school that has already signed a 5 star point guard in the same class year as him?  Huh?

    What is he thinking?

    I assume this happens a lot more than you think.  First off, two "PGs" can easily play together.  Hell take a look at UK last year.  They recruited both Jamal Murray and Isaiah Briscoe who were both "PGs" when they already had Tyler Ulis.  All three started for most of the year.  If you're good enough, you'll play.  Positions don't matter nearly as much as a lot of use think they do.

    Now if he wants the ball in his hands a lot and the other player had the same desire, then yeah, that can get sticky…but pieces tend to fall into place.

  53. I assume this happens a lot more than you think.  First off, two "PGs" can easily play together.  Hell take a look at UK last year.  They recruited both Jamal Murray and Isaiah Briscoe who were both "PGs" when they already had Tyler Ulis.  All three started for most of the year.  If you're good enough, you'll play.  Positions don't matter nearly as much as a lot of use think they do.

    Now if he wants the ball in his hands a lot and the other player had the same desire, then yeah, that can get sticky…but pieces tend to fall into place.

    Murray and Briscoe are big and athletic enough to plausibly be NBA shooting guards should they not get any PG minutes. Markell is not. He's going to need to be a pure point to ever think about the NBA. Not saying he can't prove himself with another (better) PG on the team, but it makes it a lot harder. Thus the decision doesn't seem ideal.

  54. FWIW, he's usually right.

    Nailed Baldwin and Brunk weeks in advance (also predicted Guy and cj walker to butler…it's not an exact science for anyone). My guess is Tyler just decided to go with a hunch and pick BU…that right, TH?

  55. Nailed Baldwin and Brunk weeks in advance (also predicted Guy and cj walker to butler…it's not an exact science for anyone). My guess is Tyler just decided to go with a hunch and pick BU…that right, TH?

    A few reasons:

    1. I feel comfortable saying KY is one of or the top target for the staff. They are after him as hard as anyone.

    2. Butler has also been recruiting him as long as anyone.

    3. The list – Butler is kinda the odd school out when comparing the options. I think that's a good thing.

    Obviously, it is a "guessing game" and it all can change rather quickly. But for now, I really like where BU stands.

    I'm pretty sure Tyler is like 17.

    Very close. Source tells me you're one year off (-:

  56. A few reasons:

    1. I feel comfortable saying KY is one of or the top target for the staff. They are after him as hard as anyone.

    2. Butler has also been recruiting him as long as anyone.

    3. The list – Butler is kinda the odd school out when comparing the options. I think that's a good thing.

    Obviously, it is a "guessing game" and it all can change rather quickly. But for now, I really like where BU stands.

    Definitely agree that we are the odd school out of the ones that remain. The rest (in my view) are mostly large cookie cutter "Big U" schools that are all pretty similar with slightly different packaging.

  57. Jerry Meyer ‏@jerrymeyer247  2m2 minutes ago

    USC, Xavier, Tennessee, Creighton, Florida, Butler, Wisconsin head coaches watching Expressions v King James

    ————————–

    Probably watching Young and Graves. We haven't been connected to anyone from Expressions Elite.

  58. Wonder if he's still cutting to five soon..my guess is NC State, Clemson, Florida, and Wisconsin get cut soon.

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  59. Dude isn't going to Clemson.  That's all I know.  Four horse race.  We'll get to throw our pitch during an OV in August or September.  Good to have the opportunity.

  60. Hard work pays off.

    Really love how this 2017 class is shaping up. We have very legit chances of landing Young and Bede. Both are looking like locks as four stars.

  61. I agree with the above statement, it's us, OSU and Michigan at this point. Going to be hard to beat out one of them unless he just loves the smaller more intimate atmosphere we can provide. Gonna be one hell of a dog fight.

  62. If Michigan only has one spot, I'm guessing they're holding it for Kris Wilkes. There have been quite a few crystal ball predictions that have Wilkes to Michigan.

    They are recruiting for two spots even though they technically only have one at the moment. Ever since feign burned by Tyus Battle they've basically looked at situations where attrition is possible as open spots. They also have a redshirt junior who may or may not get a fifth year. I think they have one spot for Kyle Young/Jamal Cain/Isaiah Livers/Justin Smith and one for Kris Willes/Jaren Jackson

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  63. I agree with the above statement, it's us, OSU and Michigan at this point. Going to be hard to beat out one of them unless he just loves the smaller more intimate atmosphere we can provide. Gonna be one hell of a dog fight.

    I agree its a three-way race. Clemson is just too far and although I like Purdue on paper (great academics, athletic traditions, etc.), I think that's a battle we can win. I think it is no accident that we are the only small school in his final five. That fact alone tells me he must be weighing the merits of a small, private university to that of "Big State U". Like you said, it's gonna be one hell of a fight and hopefully when we get him to Hinkle and around the players/coaches, the atmosphere speaks for itself.

    Go Dawgs!

  64. [tweet]758389300169891840[/tweet]

    I would think this would put Clemson out of contention.

    EDIT: Well, maybe not. They are totally different types of forwards.

  65. Anyone know if he's got any others scheduled?

    For whatever it's worth, KY and Neese recently started following each other.

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  66. Would think the livers committent would probably eliminate UM. They only have one scholly left and livers fills that 3/4 combo/shooter spot. Their site seems to indicate they want a playmaking wing with the last spot which KY really isnt.

    Dont think think he's going to Clemson. Wouldn't rule out purdue yet but I think we could beat them out.  Basically comes down to if he wants a small private school or a "big time" school. Even though OSU is the home state school, honestly was always more concerned about um/msu. OSU just doesnt seem like a great fit, but what do I know.

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  67. Would think the livers committent would probably eliminate UM. They only have one scholly left and livers fills that 3/4 combo/shooter spot. Their site seems to indicate they want a playmaking wing with the last spot which KY really isnt.

    Dont think think he's going to Clemson. Wouldn't rule out purdue yet but I think we could beat them out.  Basically comes down to if he wants a small private school or a "big time" school. Even though OSU is the home state school, honestly was always more concerned about um/msu. OSU just doesnt seem like a great fit, but what do I know.

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    Agree.  Can't rule out Purdue, but Jaren Jackson is getting much more attention from them from what I can tell (and they may have a reasonable chance to land him), and there just hasn't been a lot of KY-Purdue love out there.  Can't necessarily rule out Clemson, but it'd shock me (and probably a lot of others).

    In other words, it's likely to effectively be down to OSU and BU.  Derek Funderburk is a 6-9 4 star PF who will be a freshman at Ohio State this year.  Obviously KY won't necessarily be deterred by him, but his playing time absolutely could be limited for years because of him.  Couple that with OSU getting into the game late, and KY being basically our highest priority for a long time, and I'd put our chances at winning KY at 60% right now. (I'd put it higher if OSU wasn't the home state school, but he appeared to be strongly considering Michigan, so I'm not sure how much of an OSU homer he could really be.)  Livers to Michigan was huge.

  68. Butler OV set: August 26-28.

    I'm sure he will be very impressed by how fun and innovative our campus is when he sees our frats are not allowed to host parties when he visits.

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  69. I'm sure he will be very impressed by how fun and innovative our campus is when he sees our frats are not allowed to host parties when he visits.

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    I may be a few more years removed than you if you graduated in 14, so maybe it's changed? But pretty sure that doesn't stop anyone.

  70. I'm sure he will be very impressed by how fun and innovative our campus is when he sees our frats are not allowed to host parties when he visits.

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    I'm sure all kinds of "innovation" was occurring at those welcome parties.

  71. I wouldnt hold my breath on KY.  I see him going to OSU.

    You've made clear you feel that way but do you have any reason other than he's from Ohio and its Ohio state?  How much can he love them given how close he's been with mich? And they've got a great PF coming in this year.

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  72. U of M has 4 PF ahead of him.  I know Jack but 247 has five for OSU and one for BU.  For me it's a feeling.

    Granted Tyler is the one BU prediction, but the remaining 5 were made in May right after Ohio State offered back in mid-May.  I think Butler's got a good shot here.  If they can manage to get a double commitment from Bede and Young when they visit, that would give them one heck of a class.

  73. Granted Tyler is the one BU prediction…

    Granted, I was the first prediction on Joey Brunk, Kamar Baldwin, Howard Washington (lol), Jerald Butler… so hey, maybe we have a shot. (-:

    (And yes, I know I missed Kyle Guy and CJ Walker. Blaming those on BMill.)

  74. I'm not personally discounting your predictions as you're right more than you're wrong (and I don't think you make predictions on 247 as a fan), but I know some will just because of your affiliation with the school and team.  I'm in agreement that Butler's in a good spot for Young, and hopefully you can tack another successful prediction to your count.

  75. If we do end up with KY, we're getting a 40+% three point shooter who can play the 4. Running lineups with him and Brunk would feature a front court that could really hit the three. Throw in some potentially top notch shooting from Baldwin and Neese and we could be making a whole lot of threes in a few years.

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  76. If we do end up with KY, we're getting a 40+% three point shooter who can play the 4. Running lineups with him and Brunk would feature a front court that could really hit the three. Throw in some potentially top notch shooting from Baldwin and Neese and we could be making a whole lot of threes in a few years.

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    This is exactly why I have been advocating for someone who can really drive/slash to the basket in this class. To fully capitalize on all that shooting we need some one that can get opposing defenses off balance and out of position. I think Jerald Butler is great start, but I would love to add Schwartz or Barcello too.

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  77. Kyle Young – 2017 Forward (Offered)

    This is exactly why I have been advocating for someone who can really drive/slash to the basket in this class. To fully capitalize on all that shooting we need some one that can get opposing defenses off balance and out of position. I think Jerald Butler is great start, but I would love to add Schwartz or Barcello too.

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    It's exactly why I wanted Batts so much. Barcello may be the smoothest and most skilled of the three, and Bede is the intangibles/leader guy, but Batts is the absurdly athletic slasher who would never let your offense get stagnant. Yogi was in large part responsible for IU's great shooting and offenses of the last 4 years (say what you will about his defense or how they weren't that good overall a couple of the years, but 3 of his 4 years he was running a top 10 offense). Offenses do not usually stall with jitterbug-type point guards. But I know, the Batts ship has sailed.

  78. It's exactly why I wanted Batts so much. Barcello may be the smoothest and most skilled of the three, and Bede is the intangibles/leader guy, but Batts is the absurdly athletic slasher who would never let your offense get stagnant. Yogi was in large part responsible for IU's great shooting and offenses of the last 4 years (say what you will about his defense or how they weren't that good overall a couple of the years, but 3 of his 4 years he was running a top 10 offense). Offenses do not usually stall with jitterbug-type point guards. But I know, the Batts ship has sailed.

    I definitely saw a poor man's Russell Westbrook in Batts. I was in love with the idea of combining that with so much shooting ability

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  79. Kyle Young – 2017 Forward (Offered)

    Interesting. That's not a follow-back either. Someone is paying attention.

    Edit: and now he's not following him. Haha. Dangit Twitter.

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  80. With his visit starting this weekend, I honestly do not even know who the main competition is anymore. In an article form July, KY said he wanted to use all five officials. He's had his BU visit scheduled 3-4 weeks, yet no others (with all the media, you think someone would know if he did plan something). UM is probably out with the Livers commitment. Doubt it'd be Clemson. Purdue? Not sure how hard they were ever after him, but still, meh. And with OSU, who knows if he is even a priority anymore. If he really loved OSU, you think he would've popped for them by now. Butler has been on him longer, and harder, than all of these schools. May not happen this week, but I think KY's gonna be a dawg.

  81. With his visit starting this weekend, I honestly do not even know who the main competition is anymore. In an article form July, KY said he wanted to use all five officials. He's had his BU visit scheduled 3-4 weeks, yet no others (with all the media, you think someone would know if he did plan something). UM is probably out with the Livers commitment. Doubt it'd be Clemson. Purdue? Not sure how hard they were ever after him, but still, meh. And with OSU, who knows if he is even a priority anymore. If he really loved OSU, you think he would've popped for them by now. Butler has been on him longer, and harder, than all of these schools. May not happen this week, but I think KY's gonna be a dawg.

    I have always been overly optimistic about Young, but I increasingly feel this is one of those right guy right time situations. Sort of like Brunk last year.

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  82. I see this playing out 1 of 2 ways. He either commits to butler on visit or in the 7 days after. Or he takes both officials, holds a formal announcement in late September, and commits to OSU.

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  83. I see this playing out 1 of 2 ways. He either commits to butler on visit or in the 7 days after. Or he takes both officials, holds a formal announcement in late September, and commits to OSU.

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    I think there's a pretty good chance he takes the OSU official, but I think that's so he can just compare them side by side.

    The Scout article talked about how much he is valuing spending time w players on his visits. Butler has a lot of great dudes in the locker room that I think he'll enjoy a lot.

    Going to be a battle here, but I think we have a good shot.

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  84. If KY is really looking to build good relationships with teammates and really values that bond, this should be a layup.  Obviously we do not know for sure, but OSU had a pretty big exodus of underclassmen within the last 12-24 months, so that has to tell you something is up with the program that they did not like.  Fortunately for them, they do have the hometown advantage, but who knows if that really means anything to KY.  If he truly wants a strong bond with his team, playing time from the get go, and just a great overall experience during his 4 years, it has to be Butler.  If he wants to stay close to home, play for an established coach who has had success over an extended period of time, and wants to play in a "big time conference" (because to say ESPN, the BE does not exist), it's OSU.  If he is just trolling everyone and wants to throw a CB (doubtful), he will go to Clemson.

  85. Ohio State only makes sense to the extent he is interested in playing for the home school.  They have guys ahead of him at his position that are even more highly regarded, and the big-school angle doesn't work either because Purdue or Clemson can fill that want if that's really a driving factor.  That being said, the home, flagship state school can be a huge pull, enough to overcome the decision not making sense on other grounds.

    Let's hope his "good relationships" comments actually mean something.  If it really does, BU should win in a runaway.

  86. Kyle Young – 2017 Forward (Offered)

    Bazely is slated as a wing/SF by everyone other than ESPN. But as has been discussed here before the 3/4 is fluid. Doesn't hurt.

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  87. Darius Bazely #35 2018 PF and Justin Ahrens just committed to Ohio State.

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    Hmmm, Bazely is a top 50 kid according to 247. Kind of looks like Thad just recruited over KY. What a shame.

  88. Kyle Young – 2017 Forward (Offered)

    Hmmm, Bazely is a top 50 kid according to 247. Kind of looks like Thad just recruited over KY. What a shame.

    What does recruiting over mean? Don't answer that, it's a rhetorical question. The idea of it is silly. You can't expect teams to only have five real players and then only recruit scrubs for the remaining eight spots. Even Romeo Langford is going to have to come in and win his spot in the starting line up. All of these high D-I players have been competing for spots since they were little. I don't think any of them will be scared off by other players at their position coming in AFTER them.

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  89. Cooper is spitting the Twitter game on him.  I feel good about this one.

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    I'd say we are definitely in at least 2nd place in this recruitment.

  90. What does recruiting over mean? Don't answer that, it's a rhetorical question. The idea of it is silly. You can't expect teams to only have five real players and then only recruit scrubs for the remaining eight spots. Even Romeo Langford is going to have to come in and win his spot in the starting line up. All of these high D-I players have been competing for spots since they were little. I don't think any of them will be scared off by other players at their position coming in AFTER them.

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    If you think a guy like Bazely or Langford doesn't create both a positive AND negative ripple effect with other recruits once they commit, then I would politely disagree with you. It doesn't always matter from a competition perspective because coaches choose lineups, not the players. Top 50 kids often find the court their first year because they're simply that good & coaches want them out there.

  91. Kyle is now following a couple of Butler guys on Twitter that aren't on the team.  Looks like they are getting him around campus to mingle pretty well.

    Do you know who?

  92. Kyle Young ‏@kyleyoung3144  23h23 hours ago

    @Neesemode11 great hanging out and playing with you man

    In case you weren't aware, that's 2017 commit Cooper Neese Young is tweeting at

  93. Kyle Young ‏@kyleyoung3144  23h23 hours ago

    @Neesemode11 great hanging out and playing with you man

    In case you weren't aware, that's 2017 commit Cooper Neese Young is tweeting at

    I know that one. I was thinking there were others beyond that one

  94. I know that one. I was thinking there were others beyond that one

    A couple of students, at least one of whom is in the class of 2020. FWIW, Young also recently started following Darius Bazley.

  95. A couple of students, at least one of whom is in the class of 2020. FWIW, Young also recently started following Darius Bazley.

    Bazley is a 2018 combo forward who committed to OSU. His scouting report reads similar to Young, so that is interesting.

  96. Bazley is a 2018 combo forward who committed to OSU. His scouting report reads similar to Young, so that is interesting.

    It is interesting and the timing is also interesting. Obviously Bazley and Young could be complementary but like Alex O'Connell and Duke, Bazley is asserting himself on OSU's depth chart. I would think the Bazley commit is a domino that helps BU.

    More importantly with Schwartz on campus this weekend, I think it will expedite Young's decision process.

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  97. More importantly with Schwartz on campus this weekend, I think it will expedite Young's decision process.

    doubt that it factors at all.  butler kind of painted itself in a corner where the players they are after know they are the players they are after and that there will be a spot.

  98. Schwartz's visit may be a factor, but even with Butler going after him as hard as they have, I think it's widely thought that he's going to wind up at Colorado.  Ultimately I do think that Young takes his OV to Ohio State, because even though I personally am not a fan of them, that would be a pretty fun experience.  Butler's best bet is for the guys on the team and coaching staff to stay in touch with him, and hopefully that winds up working out.

  99. It is interesting and the timing is also interesting. Obviously Bazley and Young could be complementary but like Alex O'Connell and Duke, Bazley is asserting himself on OSU's depth chart. I would think the Bazley commit is a domino that helps BU.

    More importantly with Schwartz on campus this weekend, I think it will expedite Young's decision process.

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    I think they fill different enough roles that neither factors at all on the other.

    I'm not sure what to make of the Bazely commitment.  I think it could cut either way.  If he and KY are friends and see each other as complimentary (3-4), it hurts us.  If there's any overlap at all (and there may be), it could obviously help.  I just don't know.

  100. Kyle Young – 2017 Forward (Offered)

    If you think a guy like Bazely or Langford doesn't create both a positive AND negative ripple effect with other recruits once they commit, then I would politely disagree with you. It doesn't always matter from a competition perspective because coaches choose lineups, not the players. Top 50 kids often find the court their first year because they're simply that good & coaches want them out there.

    I actually was commenting on the sentiment expressed by "recruiting over." That sentiment being that a coach is showing a lack of loyalty to a player by recruiting another player at the position the next year. I think it's a necessity to make sure the cupboards stay stocked, especially if you are recruiting top 100 types who might only be on campus two years (I know KY is likely a four year player). Moreover, as a D-I coach you can't afford to ever stop recruiting even when you get a recruit to commit. The nature of recruiting is that weird **** happens, and you have to have plan Bs and Plan Cs. Sometimes the best back up plan is a guy in the next class. Lastly you recruit guys in consecutive classes because there are 40 mins to play at each position and those will be split up among more than one player. Those minutes aren't always going to be 38/2  like Butler has been doing recently.

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  101. Great day to be a bulldog.  This is really, really HUGE.  Frontcourt should be straight up excellent when he and Brunk are soph-junior and junior-senior.

  102. Awesome!!!!  This is a big time recruiting win for us.  Potentially a 4 year difference maker and lays the platform for the type of player / person / student that Holt and BU deserves.  What release did you hear this from, I. J. R.?  Tweet?  I'm excited to see what happens as a result of this commit.

  103. If you go by 247's national composite rankings, this is the highest ranked player Butler has gotten.

    Maybe most impressive is Butler straight-up beat Purdue and Ohio State here (hard to tell with Michigan because of the way the commitments happened).

    Does Wyatt Wilkes still visit now?

  104. So is he a true 3 or can be a stretch 4?  Wideman and Brunk can't play all the minutes and if Folwer plays more than 10 mins we will be in trouble. Play Small ball and have Kelan/Young at the 4?

  105. So is he a true 3 or can be a stretch 4?  Wideman and Brunk can't play all the minutes and if Folwer plays more than 10 mins we will be in trouble. Play Small ball and have Kelan/Young at the 4?

    I think he's a stretch.  I definitely think you can run lineups where he's your second biggest player, especially if you've got a 6-5/6-6 athlete type to play he wing (I think CD or DS would pair really nicely with a Young-Brunk/Folwer front court).  Could then run a smaller quickness-oriented 1-2 like Bede-Baldwin.

    If he's a stretch like I'm thinking, our frontcourt shooting will be better than just about anyone's, as I think both Brunk and Fowler will be able to step out and knock down the three when open, and Young could be a downright elite shooter.

  106. Shout out to Bubs…giving them a hockey assist on this one.  Coming through clutch with the food truck and some tasty burgers always helps.

    Wow great news & welcome aboard KY! Going to be fun watching you light it up at Hinkle. Kudos to the staff, that's an amazing list they beat if you revisit his final ten schools.

  107. Kyle Young's HM Offers throughout recruitment:

    Butler

    Ohio State

    Michigan

    Michigan State

    Purdue

    Clemson

    NC State

    Wisconsin

    Florida

    West Virginia

    Xavier

    Northwestern

    Creighton

    Illinois

    Props to Holt, Pedon, and Co.

    *Pedon has killed it the past 2 years. Kamar Baldwin, Henry Baddley, helped on Jerald Butler, and now Kyle Young. Dude is strong in Ohio and the SE.*

  108. So Brad Stevens called him? Anyone know any more information on that…

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    Didn't happen… that'd be against the rules. Wouldn't be surprised if there was SOMETHING with Brad involved but it would have had to be fully "NCAA legal" for him to be willing to do it

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  109. Didn't happen… that'd be against the rules. Wouldn't be surprised if there was SOMETHING with Brad involved but it would have had to be fully "NCAA legal" for him to be willing to do it

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    That's what I thought, just saw a tweet about a call so was curious…

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  110. This is awesome. Big-time get.

    Who is a comparable?  I'm struggling to find a guy who has his shot, ability to get to the rack, athleticism, and shot-blocking ability all wrapped up in one, and at his size.

    After watching those two highlight videos, the only (admittedly weak) comparison I can think of is Sam Dekker. Maybe Gordon Hayward?

    Who else do people see?

  111. So is he a true 3 or can be a stretch 4?  Wideman and Brunk can't play all the minutes and if Folwer plays more than 10 mins we will be in trouble. Play Small ball and have Kelan/Young at the 4?

    He's definitely got enough bounce and versatility to play an NBA style 3, but my hunch is that he'll be utilized more at the 4 because he'll be a bigger mismatch. His length and nose for the ball are really useful there as well. Also if you look at his sophomore year, it would be Brunk, Fowler and probably a freshman. I think both Brunk and Fowler and best at the 5, so you'll want KY mostly playing 4.

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  112. Nigel Hayes with a better jump shot.  I like the demeanor he plays with.  Not afraid to go right at someone and dunk it on them.  Butler needs more of that kind of nasty streak back in the program.

    This is the best comp I've heard so far. One I said to a friend was a poor man's Ben Bentil.

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  113. This is the best comp I've heard so far. One I said to a friend was a poor man's Ben Bentil.

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    Bentil has like six inches on him though.

    EDIT: Scratch that. More like two or three. I thought Bentil was taller for some reason.

  114. Bentil has like six inches on him though.

    EDIT: Scratch that. More like two or three. I thought Bentil was taller for some reason.

    They're frame isn't way off but they both bring game around the hoop, driving ability and shooting in similar proportions. Young is already s better shooter but probably won't ever be as burly or athletic as Bentil, but he might be able to be in the next tier down.

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  115. I think the Dekker comparison is ok, though still not great.  The Bentil comparison is way off.  He's 6-9 240 with a 7-2 wingspan and while he's a competent three point shooter for his size, he wasn't much more than serviceable (33%) from out there. KY will be much better from deep and have much less of a presence inside.

  116. who he reminds me of

    This is awesome. Big-time get.

    Who is a comparable?  I'm struggling to find a guy who has his shot, ability to get to the rack, athleticism, and shot-blocking ability all wrapped up in one, and at his size.

    After watching those two highlight videos, the only (admittedly weak) comparison I can think of is Sam Dekker. Maybe Gordon Hayward?

    Who else do people see?

    i haven't watched tape in a year, but i remember thinking Aaron White

  117. Don't want to get too excited just yet. Insane Dawg tells me Kyle is still planning on taking his OV to Ohio State next weekend.

    Someone please tell me this is Malarkey.

    Go Dawgs!

  118. lol. In thad's dreams.

    Are we for sure?  This is commonplace is football recruiting these days. Verbal commitments are more of a placeholder anymore for kids to hold their spot but still take their officials. In basketball it seems the verbal commitment actually means something.

    I'm assuming Fdr is being sarcastic since Insane is Mr. Negative on the recruiting topic, but since I'm a football guy, I'm a bit concerned.

  119. On another note, what about Draymond Green without the girth?  He's a 4 who can D up, get to the rack, and shoot from deep.

    I was thinking Tom Gugliotta.

    Then I started thinking about how pointless it is to try to compare an NBA superstar to a kid who plays at a level where they don't have shot clocks because of the financial burden they may cause some schools.

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  120. Dude, ……………….

    I hope you're not scoffing at this comparison…White scored almost 2,000 points and averaged 13.3p/6.4r per game in his Iowa career.  If Young finishes his Butler career with those numbers I would think most everyone on this board would be very pleased.

  121. Are we for sure?  This is commonplace is football recruiting these days. Verbal commitments are more of a placeholder anymore for kids to hold their spot but still take their officials. In basketball it seems the verbal commitment actually means something.

    I'm assuming Fdr is being sarcastic since Insane is Mr. Negative on the recruiting topic, but since I'm a football guy, I'm a bit concerned.

    Obviously there are decommits, but the above just isn't a thing in basketball. If Young took his OV to OSU now Butler would almost definitely not hold his spot anymore and might even be done with him completely.

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  122. I hope you're not scoffing at this comparison…White scored almost 2,000 points and averaged 13.3p/6.4r per game in his Iowa career.  If Young finishes his Butler career with those numbers I would think most everyone on this board would be very pleased.

    I think 20+ points per game (including freshman year) is reasonable. I just hope he doesn't jump to the NBA after his second year. :drunk:

  123. See some of you have been pimping me while I was fishing for Halibut, Sockeye, Rainbows and Coho in Alaska the past two weeks. Been totally blanked out of the Internet and news.  Even though I and many of those who follow recruiting closely thought KY was going to Ohio State I'm thrilled that we were all wrong.

  124. See some of you have been pimping me while I was fishing for Halibut, Sockeye, Rainbows and Coho in Alaska the past two weeks. Been totally blanked out of the Internet and news.  Even though I and many of those who follow recruiting closely thought KY was going to Ohio State I'm thrilled that we were all wrong.

    The concern was someone stated you heard that Young was still going to take his OSU visit even after committing to BU. Glad to know that is untrue.

  125. The concern was someone stated you heard that Young was still going to take his OSU visit even after committing to BU. Glad to know that is untrue.

    They were making fun of him.  There was no actual concern.  

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  126. That's lame, but I'm glad to hear there is no actual concern.

    Don't shoot the messenger!

    I'm glad we have KY too and I am looking forward to see who else comes aboard. 

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  127. Can he rebound?  I'm worried he is undersized…

    He's awfully agile and springy.  Sometimes thats better than pure size that doesnt move well and can't jump.

    Khyle Marshall was 6'6" at best.

  128. He's awfully agile and springy.  Sometimes thats better than pure size that doesnt move well and can't jump.

    Khyle Marshall was 6'6" at best.

    Yeah and rebounding is largely about positioning too. Some have it, some don't. I'm just so sick of seeing Butler getting killed on the glass this year. I miss Kam Woods.

    Or remember when ODU was the #1 rebounding team and we out-rebounded them.

    Wideman can rebound but has no offensive game. Would love to get a 6'7 guy like young who can board but also stretch the floor (Matt Howard).

  129. Jackson HS finished 22-2 ranked 4th in Division 1 Ohio AP poll. They made it through the 1st round of district playoffs and could Hoover HS in the next round, who handed Jackson one of their 2 losses.

  130. Kyle and his Jackson Polar Bears are in the final four of the biggest school division in Ohio. Here is a hype video for the final four the school produced. Young is number 35.

  131. According to the Indy Star Kyle Young is one of the slam dunk contestants at the highschoolslam at the NCAA finals.  If that's true then we have two of our recruits competing-Young in the slam dunk and Neese in three point shooting.

  132. According to the Indy Star Kyle Young is one of the slam dunk contestants at the highschoolslam at the NCAA finals.  If that's true then we have two of our recruits competing-Young in the slam dunk and Neese in three point shooting.

    I thought they were referring to the final four in Vermont (HS level) but I could be wrong. Hard to pull the context from what was written

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  133. It seems that Butler is always able to find good kids that have a compelling story. It appears that Kyle Young is no different. I think he will quickly become a fan favorite.

    great article thanks for sharing

  134. I think he will play more the 4.

    I agree, he almost has to — as it currently stands, we don't really have a 4 on the roster next year. Our bigs are the twin towers and Wideman, none of which are 4s.

  135. Jackson knocks off undefeated Moeller 39-38 to win Ohio Division 1 State Championship.  Kyle hit the front end of a 1-1 to break a 38-38 tie and give Jackson the lead with 7 seconds left. Finished with 5 points on 1-10 from the floor, 3-4 from the line and 10 rebounds.

    Is that now 2 state champs in this recruiting class?

  136. Jackson knocks off undefeated Moeller 39-38 to win Ohio Division 1 State Championship.  Kyle hit the front end of a 1-1 to break a 38-38 tie and give Jackson the lead with 7 seconds left. Finished with 5 points on 1-10 from the floor, 3-4 from the line and 10 rebounds.

    Is that now 2 state champs in this recruiting class?

    Yep. Young and Butler.

    Meanwhile, I saw a post on Instagram earlier where Cooper Neese was with Samantha Smith in Mexico. He was crushin' a can of Pacifico. That's our boy.

  137. Yep. Young and Butler.

    Meanwhile, I saw a post on Instagram earlier where Cooper Neese was with Samantha Smith in Mexico. He was crushin' a can of Pacifico. That's our boy.

    That's probably exactly how I'd be training for a 3 point shooting contest.  Hydration, crush can, trash can, splash.  Hopefully he has fun and stays out of trouble down there.

    Not exactly the stellar game that I'm sure Young was hoping to have individually, but a state championship is the end goal and they nailed that.

    If anyone starts out of the freshman class next season (and really there are several candidates), my money would be on Young.

  138. A Young monster slam in the state semi final….plus some comments from Young and his high school coach on the game and how Young plays the game. Glad to have this guy in Butler blue next year.

  139. Hope he can add some big time weight this summer. If not, there will be certain matchups where we simply can't play him at the 4.

    He will definitely create matchup problems, both him and David can shoot very very well from the outside, and both are excellent passers, David probably is a little bit better passer at this point, but how can future guards not want these guys pulling bigs away from the basket to create driving lanes, I'm not saying it'll happen next year, but I can see a Kamar/Smith/Hunter/Phinisee combo with Neese in the corner and David, Young on the wings.  It doesn't have to be our go to lineup but we'll have the ability to make some interesting lineups, we played AC at the 5 this year some I can see a time where we go Young, Kelen, David, Kamar, Butler/Neese combo which would be a nightmare for anyone to guard and we can switch anything on defense.  I would love to see how that plays out.

  140. Which reminds me, if he leaves, we have almost nobody who can play minutes as a 4 in our traditional system.

    Martin gonna have to. It ain't ideal, but he can do it.

  141. Indy Star video where Neese said he was shocked by CH's departure but that to his knowledge he thought all recruits are staying put at BU. He also states CH contacted all the recruits and their families to inform them. For what it's worth.

  142. Indy Star video where Neese said he was shocked by CH's departure but that to his knowledge he thought all recruits are staying put at BU. He also states CH contacted all the recruits and their families to inform them. For what it's worth.

    I'd be interested to know what he said to the recruits, although we will probably never know.

  143. Neese speaking about his call from CH stated that CH explained his decision, why and Cooper said he understood  and respected his decision to move on. From the video interview Neese sounded like it was a very professional courtesy call.

  144. Neese speaking about his call from CH stated that CH explained his decision, why and Cooper said he understood  and respected his decision to move on. From the video interview Neese sounded like it was a very professional courtesy call.

    I sort of expected that. I'm more curious how the convo between David and Young went. Can Holtmann speak to them about committing to OSU, even if the player initiates it? Or is that against the rules? What I could see being a plausible scenario is a Butler recruit hinting (or straight up asking) at playing at OSU and what I'm curious to know is how Holtmann would have responded.

  145. If Young goes with Holtmann it would not only be a big blow because he is a good player, but it would also leave Butler without a 4 on the roster. Not sure what can be done about that now though…

  146. Not sure what can be done about that now though…

    We could block recruits who want out of their NLI from signing with Ohio State. I don't really care if that's politically popular or not.

    If men's basketball is an important revenue generating asset, then the administration needs to conduct an audit on how to protect our program from this scenario. It literally comes up on a yearly basis. That's Barry & Danko being asleep at the wheel.

  147. We could block recruits who want out of their NLI from signing with Ohio State. I don't really care if that's politically popular or not.

    If men's basketball is an important revenue generating asset, then the administration needs to conduct an audit on how to protect our program from this scenario. It literally comes up on a yearly basis. That's Barry & Danko being asleep at the wheel.

    Blocking transfers only results in bad press. And players aren't gonna give any effort if they are forced to stay.

  148. Not sure why I'm just connecting the dots, but this is butlerfan, right?

    Nope sorry just me. I'm not going to just reveal info that I'm given. That's not how things work sorry. I've talked to Jared plenty of times and he can attest that my info has been correct. I give what I can

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  149. Blocking transfers only results in bad press. And players aren't gonna give any effort if they are forced to stay.

    Meh on the bad press, some times you have to act like a dick. All programs do it, yes it'll be frowned upon though for sure.

    In this case though, a couple things, one, I don't think the "block" would force him to stay, but the other side of that is plenty of schools are trying to get him. Not just Holtmann and Schrage. It was mentioned in one of the coaching threads, but the buzzards have been circling the meat for awhile, just waiting for things to become official. So you can imagine, since Friday, between he and David, plenty of big named programs are trying to lure them. I'd go with the block personally to OSU, but I'd let them open back up if they wished, to anywhere else. Yes, it's a bad look, but at some point, Butler has to act like a real program.

  150. CH taking assistant coaches with him is a common business practice.  However taking a recruit is below the belt. My respect for CH would take a hit.

    My respect for CH is already below zero. Is he going to rub our nose in the dirt now? If he takes our recruits, it will be so disgusting.

  151. My respect for CH is already below zero. Is he going to rub our nose in the dirt now? If he takes our recruits, it will be disgusting.

    Not sure on David but yes on Young. So, your respect level better have way less than zero on it 🙂

    It's up to the kids, because not only Holt, but plenty of programs are after both. Sharks smelling blood.

  152. What programs (besides Ohio State) realistically have open scholarships at this point though.  The list can't be too long.  I'd definitely try to make the sale to come for a year and then make a decision if they feel like it's not a good fit.

  153. What programs (besides Ohio State) realistically have open scholarships at this point though.  The list can't be too long.  I'd definitely try to make the sale to come for a year and then make a decision if they feel like it's not a good fit.

    There are ways to trim your roster, even this late. Don't think some won't do this for a Top 80 player. Want an example? See what Crean did to Ron Patterson at IU.

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  154. Meh on the bad press, some times you have to act like a dick. All programs do it, yes it'll be frowned upon though for sure.

    In this case though, a couple things, one, I don't think the "block" would force him to stay, but the other side of that is plenty of schools are trying to get him. Not just Holtmann and Schrage. It was mentioned in one of the coaching threads, but the buzzards have been circling the meat for awhile, just waiting for things to become official. So you can imagine, since Friday, between he and David, plenty of big named programs are trying to lure them. I'd go with the block personally to OSU, but I'd let them open back up if they wished, to anywhere else. Yes, it's a bad look, but at some point, Butler has to act like a real program.

    I'd be much more on board with this approach.

  155. Restricting recruits from transferring never works out. As soon as the press gets ahold of it and publicizes the restrictions, the university almost always removes them. I'm actually curious if anyone on the board can point me to the last restriction (of some reasonably talented player) that was not overturned.

  156. I'd go with the block personally to OSU, but I'd let them open back up if they wished, to anywhere else. Yes, it's a bad look, but at some point, Butler has to act like a real program.

    Exactly, stand up and act like a Power 6 program or don't join the Big East in the first place. We have no obligation to be the nice guy and let OSU steal both our coach & recruits. I don't give a crap what the media says. Behave like a pushover and you'll be treated like one.

  157. If he wants to go, just let him go.  As bd5 said, the school will never come out looking okay, and that's the last thing you want for a new coach to have to deal with on the recruiting trail.  Lot of talent in Ohio, you don't want to tick off one coach in that state, because that's going to continue to follow the program down the road.

  158. I believe Michigan made his Final 5.

    They did.  And it was speculated (at least on here) that Michigan was third.  But LaVall was named HC of UWM in like April of 16.  So it's not like he was recruiting him during the critical periods (summer of 16).  But maybe there was some rapport from during KY's jr HS season.

  159. Corey Albertson ‏@Corey_Albertson  Sep 2

    '17 Massillon Jackson SF Kyle Young will unofficially visit Michigan, Purdue and Butler this month, per his AAU coach.

    Offered by Michigan

    These posts are from first two pages in this thread. I'd still be surprised if Young doesn't end up at OSU but it's clear Michigan was on him early so good chance Young and LaVall have interacted before.

  160. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Young stays with Butler, mainly because Butler can still offer him pretty much everything he expected from a academic/athletic perspective. If I remember his top 5, Butler was the only small school. If someone who has lived the culture like LaVall comes in and can give him and the rest of the recruits/team some reassurance, we might just be able to keep this class intact, and doing that would speak volumes about the kind of recruits Butler now lands and the quality of the program overall.

    Go Dawgs!

  161. Do we think Lavall will just have a phone conversation with Young and David? Can he be that convincing other the phone? Any chance he goes to meet them?

    I think he should be able to go visit. Because they have signed LOIs a lot of the NCAA restrictions have been lifted from them. And actually Butler would have to give permission to anyone from OSU to be in touch with them, I believe.

  162. Blocking transfers only results in bad press. And players aren't gonna give any effort if they are forced to stay.

    I didn't say block transfers. I said block schools. There's a big difference between letting a coach move on to a new program and letting him steal the top recruit in our class. If Young doesn't like Butler, there are hundreds of other schools he could choose from.

    Sorry, sooner or later we have to protect our school. I'm sick and tired of watching coaches leave over the years. I'm more pissed at the administration for not acting like a Big East school by putting a contract in place that would have kept him here.

    A $2.5 million penalty buyout for stealing Holt is just OSU concession stand money on a Saturday in the horseshoe.

  163. I think he should be able to go visit. Because they have signed LOIs a lot of the NCAA restrictions have been lifted from them. And actually Butler would have to give permission to anyone from OSU to be in touch with them, I believe.

    He absolutely will go visit him.  Remember Brad drove immediately to meet with Matt Howard and confirm he was still committed.   Anyone who signed an NLI has to be released before another program can contact.  Pretty sure our incoming guys wont ask for that before LaVall has a chance to talk to them.  Vall has a little time to make his case.

  164. With Pedon set to join OSU I think Kyle is probably gone unless LaVall really sells him on being "the guy" at Butler

    Also it may not mean anything but Kyle's high school basketball twitter just started following OSU hoops

  165. Might be naive here, but wouldn't potential playing time play a factor?  I don't know anything about opportunities for KY or CD at OSU.

    This is probably a better selling point to Kyle Young, than Christian David. Ohio State has a senior and a RS junior at his position, where as we have pretty much nada in terms of returning experience. Quite to the contrary at the 2/3 spots we have a senior and a guy coming off a breakout freshman year who will only get better. That said, a player of these guys' caliber is probably looking for fit in scheme and such, rather than who else will be around.

  166. trying to understand the transfer process, I have heard different things about immediate eligability.

    Have heard

    have to sit out a year if started classes

    and

    have to sit out a year if registered for classes

    anyone have an idea which it is?

    The reason I ask is because my son is an incoming Freshman  this year.  We attended orientation in Late may.  Young and Neese were there as well.  They did the same as my son, registered for school, registered for classes, got their student numbers, got their schedules, and their ID.

    Any idea which is which?

  167. Kyle liked this post so read into it what you want

    Yeah that was before LaVall was hired so it may have been dependant upon who they hired, and the decision is already made one way or another, OR, you could read into it as LaVall has a big say in convincing Kyle to stay at this point.

  168. My understanding in talking with people close to the situation is that since Kyle has signed his letter of intent but hasn't attended any classes a simple release from Butler would allow him to immedialty play for Butler with out sitting out a year.

    One thing Butler has going for them (and I haven't heard whether or not a convo has taken place between Kyle and Lavall) is that Kyle is very much a religious person and it seems that he and Lavall might develop a similar rapport when it comes to spirituality.

    I'll update more when further info becomes avalaible from Kyle's hometown

  169. As many know, Kyle lost his dad within the past few years.  And now the HC and lead recruiter for the program he committed to have left.  Lots of loss for a young man.  Hoping he and LaVall can connect and Kyle gives Vall a chance.  I can't imagine how awkward it would be for Holt/Pedon to now try and convince him that OSU is the right choice for him after selling him on BU.

  170. There are some real risk of requesting a release from a NLI.  Obviously, Butler could deny, which would surprise me.  But, unless Butler provides a full release upfront, it could cost Young a year of eligibility.  Once the NLI is signed, unless a full release is granted upfront, I thought you couldn't sign another NLI for another year?

    Even if Butler grants a release, I would not be surprised if they waited until Young chose another institution to grant the full release.  I would not allow Young to go to OSU and I would think most in the coaching circle would agree.  This has nothing to do with being vindictive, but it would set bad precedent for all institutions.  I can not remember a full release NLI allowed to go with a HC coach to a new institution in the same year.  Anyone have a relevant example?

  171. Kyle Young should not be the victim. If he asks for a release, Butler should grant it immediately and without restriction. It's not even about optics, it is simply the right thing to do.

  172. agree,

    Been thinking about this a lot, and even though this sucks terribly for us, there is no reason to hold this young man hostage at this point.  I hope he CHOOSES Butler!

  173. There are some real risk of requesting a release from a NLI.  Obviously, Butler could deny, which would surprise me.  But, unless Butler provides a full release upfront, it could cost Young a year of eligibility.  Once the NLI is signed, unless a full release is granted upfront, I thought you couldn't sign another NLI for another year?

    Even if Butler grants a release, I would not be surprised if they waited until Young chose another institution to grant the full release.  I would not allow Young to go to OSU and I would think most in the coaching circle would agree.  This has nothing to do with being vindictive, but it would set bad precedent for all institutions.  I can not remember a full release NLI allowed to go with a HC coach to a new institution in the same year.  Anyone have a relevant example?

    I believe Torian Graham did it at ASU following Bobby Hurley from Buffalo whereas Shannon Evans II had to sit a year as he was on the UB roster when he transferred.

  174. Kyle Young should not be the victim. If he asks for a release, Butler should grant it immediately and without restriction. It's not even about optics, it is simply the right thing to do.

    I am not implying we limit or harm Young.  My question is, if this never happens, there must be reason.  Regardless of our thoughts, I'm guess no AD wants to be viewed as setting precedent on a hot button topic like this.  Imagine how much Calipari could demand if he left KY for UCLA with 6, 5 star players?!?  Better yet, I'm guessing Rick Stansbury could probably get a 2-3X raise if he could bring his 2017 recruiting class with him this year.  That would be an ugly scenario.

    Again, I'm not for limiting Young, all I'm saying is, there must be a good reason why this does not happen.  If I'm wrong and there are viable examples, please prove me wrong.

    Regarding Graham, he was sitting out a transfer year when Hurley left for ASU.  This was an odd situation, but he was able to play when  Buffalo released him and the NCAA allowed his redshirt year @ UB to count towards immediate playing time @ ASU.

  175. As long as he doesn't go to OSU or BE I'd let him go if he asked. But hope he's going to choose to be at Butler. 

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  176. After the numerous ways Holtmann has ****ed over BU this past week, hoping he does the right thing here and doesn't even extend a scholarship offer.

    Gave up expecting holtmann to do right by this point. Dude sucks, especially since it was a destination job, never wanted to leave, blah blah blah. Never openly wanted a coach to fail before but I hope he does at osu

  177. Hope for Holtmann's sake he doesn't experience the same thing Todd Lickliter experienced.  Either way he will be extremely wealthy.  Loyalty and promises can be bought out.  Thad Mata was the most successful coach ever at OSU at 337-123 and nine NCAA appearances yet was fired because of two down seasons.

  178. I am not implying we limit or harm Young.  My question is, if this never happens, there must be reason.  Regardless of our thoughts, I'm guess no AD wants to be viewed as setting precedent on a hot button topic like this.  Imagine how much Calipari could demand if he left KY for UCLA with 6, 5 star players?!?  Better yet, I'm guessing Rick Stansbury could probably get a 2-3X raise if he could bring his 2017 recruiting class with him this year.  That would be an ugly scenario.

    Again, I'm not for limiting Young, all I'm saying is, there must be a good reason why this does not happen.  If I'm wrong and there are viable examples, please prove me wrong.

    Regarding Graham, he was sitting out a transfer year when Hurley left for ASU.  This was an odd situation, but he was able to play when  Buffalo released him and the NCAA allowed his redshirt year @ UB to count towards immediate playing time @ ASU.

    You're making up hypotheticals and putting the burden of proof on us to find you a black and white answer…

  179. HUH?!  All I'm saying is if it never happens, then it probably won't happen this time.  Young will not go to OSU.

    If he doesn't go to OSU, is there another program we should be worried about?

  180. As IndyBasket pointed out in the Elijah Weaver thread, the NLI is such a sham for the players. To me, Young shouldn't have any obligation to stay at Butler and we should release him if he asks. Hell we should release him anyway since we are such a city on the hill institution. The NLI is a contract of adhesion like your gym membership. If your gym decided to fundamentally change, say they removed half the exercise equipment, after you signed a contract wouldn't you expect to get out of it?

    If you are curious to read more I suggest these:

    Pop journalism version – https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/why-top-ncaa-recruits-shouldnt-sign-national-letters-of-intent

    Legalese version – http://alsb.roundtablelive.org/Resources/Documents/NP 2011 Burke_Grube.pdf

    Academic version – http://scholarship.law.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1322&context=sportslaw

  181. If your gym decided to fundamentally change, say they removed half the exercise equipment, after you signed a contract wouldn't you expect to get out of it?

    That's a good way of putting it.

    I do think there is merit, however, to some restrictions that a program may place on a signed player who seeks to be released from his letter of intent, namely if the player wants to go to the school where the coach is heading.  On the other hand, what difference does it make if the program that the player wants to join does not play the program that he wants to leave?  For example, Butler is not scheduled to play OSU and will not play OSU unless in the PK80 or the national tournament.  Whether Young wants to play at OSU rather than, say, UVA makes no real difference to Butler beyond optics and feelings.

    Perhaps a fair balance would be to give programs the option of denying the released player from choosing the school that the departing coach is heading to if that school is a future opponent.  This would be like denying OSU as an option for Young if OSU were scheduled as a Butler opponent.

  182. Is it fair to say we will have an answer in the next 10 days with both of the recruits? June 24 they arrive on campus.

    Hopefully Lavall has spoken to both either today or tomorrow. Anyone have any insight on that  nugget? Do you think he has met face to face with the other players on campus?

  183. Is it fair to say we will have an answer in the next 10 days with both of the recruits? June 24 they arrive on campus.

    Hopefully Lavall has spoken to both either today or tomorrow. Anyone have any insight on that  nugget? Do you think he has met face to face with the other players on campus?

    Yes, I'd say we'll know in next 5-7 days.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

  184. Well that would be a NCAA violation if Holt or any staff has been in contact with them. Right? Would not be so bright.

    There's so many ways around this that it's essentially unenforceable

  185. Just talked with two people close to the  situation from Kyle's hometown

    Well…..it's not good.

    I'd expect it to be official by Friday on twitter or by the local news media in Massillon.

  186. Just talked with two people close to the  situation from Kyle's hometown

    Well…..it's not good.

    I'd expect it to be official by Friday on twitter or by the local news media in Massillon.

    Great. Darn. I read Tom Davis too who I don't really trust too

  187. One person to keep an eye on Twitter is this gentleman right here. He formed and managed Kyle's AAU team and is close with the Young family.

    Check out his latest retweets and you can read the writing on the wall. Basically confirming what I've heard so far.

    Haven't heard yet about a convo between Lavall and Kyle but Butler had to know that by not promoting Pedon they were risking losing Kyle.

  188. Really sleazy **** if our prior coach is attempting to steal the prized recruit of the class too. But he told the media he wanted the recruits to stay! What a jagoff

    More than just a jagoff, if CH is recruiting KY it is officially a violation.  He can not recruit him until he gets released from his LOI.  What a Dick!

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Butler Hoops mobile app

  189. My thoughts are that the true character of Chris Holtmann will show here. When Archie Miller left UD for IU….he could have taken his prize UD recruit…a point guard from Minnesota. Miller stated…and honored his pledge not to poach any UD players he had recruited and signed. The recruit de-committed and ended up at Colorado. If Young goes on to some other school, other than OSU…that's OK with me. If he goes to Columbus…my respect for Holtmann will have greatly diminished.

  190. Let's face it, you're an 18 year old kid and have had 2-3 coaches fly out and spend countless hours on you and building a relationship. They tell you you're special and how their system is perfect for you. Then EVERY one of them leaves (with that system) and goes to your 2nd option school and the team you've been cheering for all your life. Your loyalty isn't to butler, it's to the coaches who have invested in you… The coaches don't even need to ask KY to come to Ohio State. He's probably *asking* to come along as long as he gets some playing time. And let's be honest, that's one way for holtmann to immediately gain favor in the eyes of the AD and fans. I bet holtmann said "take a few days and consider staying at butler, and if you still feel that way next week, then sure"… and he is 90% sure KY has already made up his mind but for saving face he had to say that.

    Plus, you can't hate a kid if he really really wants to play for the coaches who recruited him. And as Holtmann, it's hard to say no if that's really what KY wants. Of course it's another story if Holtmann is actively pursuing him if KY is on the fence. We just don't know. (But tbh, OSU fans and the AD don't give a rats ass about integrity as long as they get results, which this would be)

    Not saying I agree with it, it's just what is probably going through KYs head. We forget the human part of all of this. I hope to God he stays. Honestly time is sort of on our side with this. He's already registered, already plans to  room with a teammate in 10 days, and I'm sure has been receiving texts prior to all this and building relationships with teammates. If this was in April we wouldn't have had a chance. But all the news in Ohio is how great Holtmann is and how bright OSUs future will be yada yada. He's surrounded by it and I'm sure everyone he knows back home is trying to pursuade him otherwise.

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  191. My thoughts are that the true character of Chris Holtmann will show here. When Archie Miller left UD for IU….he could have taken his prize UD recruit…a point guard from Minnesota. Miller stated…and honored his pledge not to poach any UD players he had recruited and signed. The recruit de-committed and ended up at Colorado. If Young goes on to some other school, other than OSU…that's OK with me. If he goes to Columbus…my respect for Holtmann will have greatly diminished.

    100% agree.  If Young leaves, so be it…..but not with Holtmann.  A character move for sure.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Butler Hoops mobile app

  192. My thoughts are that the true character of Chris Holtmann will show here. When Archie Miller left UD for IU….he could have taken his prize UD recruit…a point guard from Minnesota.

    When this player from Minnesota was deciding on colleges, were his final two Dayton and Indiana?

  193. My thoughts are that the true character of Chris Holtmann will show here. When Archie Miller left UD for IU….he could have taken his prize UD recruit…a point guard from Minnesota. Miller stated…and honored his pledge not to poach any UD players he had recruited and signed. The recruit de-committed and ended up at Colorado. If Young goes on to some other school, other than OSU…that's OK with me. If he goes to Columbus…my respect for Holtmann will have greatly diminished.

    My respect for Chris Holtmann is already less than zero. He is a scumsucker, full of greed and fraud.  🙂

  194. Not saying I agree with it, it's just what is probably going through KYs head. We forget the human part of all of this. I hope to God he stays. Honestly time is sort of on our side with this. He's already registered, already plans to  room with a teammate in 10 days, and I'm sure has been receiving texts prior to all this and building relationships with teammates. If this was in April we wouldn't have had a chance. But all the news in Ohio is how great Holtmann is and how bright OSUs future will be yada yada. He's surrounded by it and I'm sure everyone he knows back home is trying to pursuade him otherwise.

    I'd be very surprised if he's at Butler in a couple of weeks.

  195. No hate for Kyle if he decides to go elsewhere, even if it is OSU.  Can't blame the kid.  As for Holtmann, dude is proving to be as sleazy as they come, so he'll fit in just fine recruiting over KY and running around with bag men.

  196. I have already lost respect for Holtmann whether KY and CD stay or go to OSU. Either way Butler will be good this coming year with Brunk, Fowler, Baddley, McDermott, Martin, Baldwin, Neese, Butler and Thompson.  Wish we had OSU on our schedule.

  197. None.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

    Why would we want a player that will ride the bench at OSU? If that's the case and really what people think then why is everyone so butt hurt about this situation?

    1.) this kid committed to Butler to play basketball. His life for 4 years will be spent with a team and coaches more than anyone else on earth. Given how good young is, he probably hopes to go pro as well.  Can't really blame him for wanting to follow the staff to a different school.

    2.) His #2 school was the school that now has the staff that he committed to play for. It makes more sense for him to want to play there than at Butler. It's actually some relief that he isn't just decomitting to decommit.

    3.) Holtmann seems like he is still a solid guy. It would actually be worse if he was after Thompson and David, don't you think? Those would require much more recruitment than is required for Young.

    Overall, if you were young you'd be doing the same thing, so no use crying about it. Part of big time college hoops.

  198. Other than the fact that we are pessimistic about the whole situation, are there any credible sources to back up the "it's not looking good" claims? Like talking to a coach or a family member or butler insiders about how he is feeling. Who knows, maybe he had a good conversation with LJ that we don't know about?

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  199. Other than the fact that we are pessimistic about the whole situation, are there any credible sources to back up the "it's not looking good" claims? Like talking to a coach or a family member or butler insiders about how he is feeling. Who knows, maybe he had a good conversation with LJ that we don't know about?

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

    The tweets from his aau coach aren't definitive, but don't read well for BU.

    Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

  200. Other than the fact that we are pessimistic about the whole situation, are there any credible sources to back up the "it's not looking good" claims? Like talking to a coach or a family member or butler insiders about how he is feeling. Who knows, maybe he had a good conversation with LJ that we don't know about?

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

    I talked with a former teammate of his and HS assistant coach. Haven't heard if he talked with Lavall or not. It definitely could change but I'm about 75% sure he is going to OSU.

  201. This is all interesting.  I'm assuming he's gone, but with a chance to really evaluate his situation, Ohio State isn't the greatest situation for Young.  Forward is the one position that they are set at.  It's unlikely he gets much playing time at all this year, and that team isn't going anywhere for a few years.  Coming here, he probably starts for a definite tournament team.  I can totally get all the reasons that he might want to go elsewhere, but I have to think that there have to be other places where he could have a better, more impactful college experience than he's going to get at Ohio State.  I'm not sure what other options he has at this late point in the summer though.

    For us, this will hurt a lot more in 2018-19 than this year.  For now, Kelan can play the 4 as much as needed.  Assuming David still comes, he could start at the 3 and we will be fine this year.  Next year, with Martin and Wideman graduating is when we're really going to hurt if Young decides to go elsewhere.

  202. This is all interesting.  I'm assuming he's gone, but with a chance to really evaluate his situation, Ohio State isn't the greatest situation for Young.  Forward is the one position that they are set at.  It's unlikely he gets much playing time at all this year, and that team isn't going anywhere for a few years.  Coming here, he probably starts for a definite tournament team.  I can totally get all the reasons that he might want to go elsewhere, but I have to think that there have to be other places where he could have a better, more impactful college experience than he's going to get at Ohio State.  I'm not sure what other options he has at this late point in the summer though.

    For us, this will hurt a lot more in 2018-19 than this year.  For now, Kelan can play the 4 as much as needed.  Assuming David still comes, he could start at the 3 and we will be fine this year.  Next year, with Martin and Wideman graduating is when we're really going to hurt if Young decides to go elsewhere.

    I agree with you as there are 2 solid players in front of him at his position at osu.  I still hope he really likes lavall and sees the playing time and opportunity the success the team can have from day one and shows up at BU.  However,  with the changes at his top 2 schools his 3rd or 4th choice might make more sense to him now.

    Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

  203. Writing seems to be on the wall.  Hard to blame KY.  It'd be nice if he was committing to the program/school, but I can't say i'd do anything differently from him were I in the position.  If you haven't been a part of it, you can't appreciate that it is so much bigger than the head coach and one assistant.

    I don't know where he'll go, but I don't think it'll be Butler.  Obviously Ohio State is the probably most likely destination at this point, but I sure hope we're all wrong.  Anywhere but there would be a win as of now.

  204. I'm glad y'all are seeing what a scumbag butt lick Holtmann is.

    If you remember a few years ago, when Cal bolted Memphis for Kentucky, all those guys were in, then all got released and all followed him to Kentucky. SO, do be surprised here…and Holtmann is on the level of Calimari.

  205. What are the odds that, if KY does go to OSU, that he's transferring by his Jr. year due to lack of playing time?

    Is an NLI binding if the coach of my sport leaves the instituion?

    Yes. The NLI you signed with an institution remains binding if the coach who recruited you leaves the institution with which you signed. When you sign an NLI, you sign with an institution and not with a coach or a specific team.

  206. If the kid wants to leave, you let him leave.  Then we move on and get somebody else. 

    I personally hope he stays, but nobody is bigger than the program.  This includes Holt and other coaches too.

  207. If Young leaves, this one's on Barry. Stand up, show some balls and protect our program.

    I'm not sure Young's worth it.  We will be much better with him, but even with him, I'm starting to get really uneasy about the next few years. The 2 AC's from Milwaukee thing is dumbfounding, and makes me think that LaVall didn't come to Barry with a full-fledged plan. That would be, 100%, on Barry.

  208. I agree with you as there are 2 solid players in front of him at his position at osu.  I still hope he really likes lavall and sees the playing time and opportunity the success the team can have from day one and shows up at BU.  However,  with the changes at his top 2 schools his 3rd or 4th choice might make more sense to him now.

    Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

    Michigan just lost their starter at PF, but they took a similar type player in Isaiah Livers. Purdue still has Vincent Edwards for one more year, and has a PF in their class. Florida took the kid from West Virginia, Chase Johnson. It may be a choice that Young makes where he decides between a great fit at Butler or going to a school where he might have to wait a year for his opportunity.

  209. Barry, there's a sale on testicles down the street, go buy some. Do not let his kid go to OSU. I don't give a flyin rat's wenis what it looks like in public, and neither does anyone else. F OSU, F the whole thing. Get your little baby nuts on the line. Tell them you may need them and stop being such a pussywillow.

  210. http://ohiostate.247sports.com/Article/Ohio-State-Buckeyes-basketball-could-be-in-running-for-2017-Butl-53171865

    This makes it sound like it's pretty much a done deal

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

    Obviously the OSU reporter is trying to paint the story with a red brush. But nothing sounded like he is definitely leaving Butler. Just shows that he is conflicted but Jordan is really trying to get him to stay. And KY is at least listening and maybe figuring out who the remaining staff will be

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

  211. Haaaa… Where do you think is high school coach wants him to go?  Geez.

    Also, let's not gloss over the biggest line in this story from the HS coach:

    “I’ve talked to Coach Holtmann, Coach Pedon and all of those guys. They are excited to come over and be Buckeyes.”  Sure sounds like they want to keep the Butler recruiting class together…

  212. Didn't LJ go through a coaching change when he played at BU, when Barry left for Nebraska?  Maybe, having gone through something similar will help in the relating with KY.  I don't know.  At this point, anyone's guess.

  213. Haaaa… Where do you think is high school coach wants him to go?  Geez.

    Also, let's not gloss over the biggest line in this story from the HS coach:

    “I’ve talked to Coach Holtmann, Coach Pedon and all of those guys. They are excited to come over and be Buckeyes.”  Sure sounds like they want to keep the Butler recruiting class together…

    I mean, it's good to know that Jordan has talked to him a couple of times, but it sure sounds like the new OSU staff is already recruiting him through his coach.

    Oh I'm sure they are heavily recruiting KY through his coach right now, but I'm trusting in Lavall personality and recruiting ability, he wasn't a scrub when it comes to having tough competition to sign big time talent up at Michigan.

  214. Haaaa… Where do you think is high school coach wants him to go?  Geez.

    Also, let's not gloss over the biggest line in this story from the HS coach:

    “I’ve talked to Coach Holtmann, Coach Pedon and all of those guys. They are excited to come over and be Buckeyes.”  Sure sounds like they want to keep the Butler recruiting class together…

    They can't be back-door poaching him through his HS coach… They really want Butler to keep its class together, remember?

  215. I'm not sure Young's worth it.  We will be much better with him, but even with him, I'm starting to get really uneasy about the next few years. The 2 AC's from Milwaukee thing is dumbfounding, and makes me think that LaVall didn't come to Barry with a full-fledged plan. That would be, 100%, on Barry.

    Barry gets the job with a 50 page document detailing how he would turn the program around but hires a guy without a plan? I highly doubt that happened. I would prefer no AC's from Milwaukee but realistically what options are out there right now?

  216. Anyway to look up OSU Students email? Thats how the general public knew Bowen was going to Louisville because an email was made for him. Resources.

    Which is weird, because I can get Kamars, Joeys, & Aaron Thompsons email way too easy.

  217. Barry gets the job with a 50 page document detailing how he would turn the program around but hires a guy without a plan? I highly doubt that happened. I would prefer no AC's from Milwaukee but realistically what options are out there right now?

    With a reduced HC salary and the buyout money, we should be able to pay assistants a total of around 800K (at least) if Ohio St. is paying 1.1.  You give the least experienced guy 150K, then you go after it with the rest of the money and grab a former HC and the lowest paid AC at a major school with serious recruiting chops.

  218. LaVall will hire the guys he wants.  Same thing Holtmann did.  Since I think he was the right hire, I trust him to get guys that aren't retards.

    If you look at the resume's of Schrage, TJ, and Pedon prior to joining Holtmann's staff at Butler, they make anyone on Milwaukee's staff look like a 17 year old with a paper route.  Blind trust, just like cocaine, is a hell of a drug.

  219. Almost official now

    http://www.neosportsinsiders.com/signs-pointing-toward-4-star-recruit-kyle-young-joining-chris-holtmann-ohio-state/

    Also don't want to say when it rains it pours but now hearing from people in CBUS that David is probably coming to OSU as well

    I can tell you that Kyle's hometown is a very supportive community and a large group of boosters was planning to go to many Butler games in support of Kyle. Obviously the mood has change and now everyone in Massillon Jackson is hoping he goes to OSU.

    As to the Jackson coaches I can tell you that they never pushed Ohio st to Kyle. In fact Kyle was already sour on them because Thad was lazy in recruiting Kyle and the coaches feared he wasn't going to be at OSU too much longer. They really felt Butler and Purdue were the best fits for Kyle. Obviously that has changed now.

  220. If you look at the resume's of Schrage, TJ, and Pedon prior to joining Holtmann's staff at Butler, they make anyone on Milwaukee's staff look like a 17 year old with a paper route.  Blind trust, just like cocaine, is a hell of a drug.

    So I should trust some random dude on a message board over our head coach?

  221. It's entirely possible that Holtmann won't want to take KY from us, but if KY says he will go to Michigan/Purdue instead, then Holtmann might extend an offer.

  222. Holtmann might as well take a dump at half-court in Hinkle. Christ.

    Block the transfer to OSU. Not that hard to make the right decision here.

    Yeah, lets treat him like an employee of Butler, not a student athlete, and put in a non-compete blocking O$U! He signed a contract to Butler, not Holtmann!

  223. So I should trust some random dude on a message board over our head coach?

    No, but reading comprehension seems to be beyond your grasp.  Objectively, the resumes are not close.  Trusting anyone blindly is a really dangerous practice. Same reason why a CEO must answer to a Board of Directors and a President must answer to Congress.

  224. Block the transfer to OSU.

    I would definitely block them from OSU.

    Butler does not have the option of being school-selective.  Either Butler binds Young to his letter of intent or Butler fully releases him.  This is not like a transfer where Butler may deny the release to particular programs.

    Sure, Butler could first determine where Young wants to go and then give him an ultimatum stipulating that he'll be released if he doesn't go to OSU.  Understand, however, that this will play very poorly in the media and with future recruits.  Moreover, that ultimatum would likely kill the relationship between Butler and Young if he chooses to remain with the Bulldogs.  Finally, I'd like to think that the Butler program and the Butler way are above such a tactic.  Either this program prides itself on doing things a different way — that is, the right way — or this program becomes like almost everyone else.

  225. No, but reading comprehension seems to be beyond your grasp.  Objectively, the resumes are not close.  Trusting anyone blindly is a really dangerous practice. Same reason why a CEO must answer to a Board of Directors and a President must answer to Congress.

     I trust the head coach to know who he needs to hire, because if he does terrible then he will answer to the AD and then get canned.   Also, I'm not sure the insult was necessary.

  226. I still stand by my prior comments, if KY leaves, it will not be to OSU.  Illinois or PU would be my guess.

    I just think the backlash of allowing Young to follow Holtmann after signing an NLI will have bigger ramifications.  My guess is every AD who has Collier's cell is telling him to not allow OSU.  Any school, BUT, OSU.

    When Calipari left, he took Wall & Cousins, but they were verbals.  Supposedly, Xavier Henry had an out clause when he signed his NLI, and went to Kansas when Calipari bolted.  Not even Calipari took NLI recruits with him!?!?

  227. If the kid wants to leave, you let him leave.  Then we move on and get somebody else.

    I personally hope he stays, but nobody is bigger than the program.  This includes Holt and other coaches too.

    Bullsh!t. He signed a legally binding contract with the university that prevented us from recruiting other players at his position because his spot was filled. And if he walks, there will most certainly be other kids that do the same.

    Stand up and be a man Barry.

  228. Realistically, I think the only delay here is KY isn't sure if Butler will block his transfer to OSU.

    They won't'/aren't

    There is a couple minor details to work out and that's not one of them I'm hearing.  Butler is still in play though. About 5% chance though now. Talking with a couple of people who have worked with Lavall

  229. Has anyone read Brad Stevens’ resume from 2001? Never should have hired that guy.

    He was promoted to a position as a low-paying AC when the program had 1/10 the budget it does today and we were in the HO League.  Any other awful analogies?

  230. Bullsh!t. He signed a legally binding contract with the university that prevented us from recruiting other players at his position because his spot was filled. And if he walks, there will most certainly be other kids that do the same.

    Stand up and be a man Barry.

    Besides Christian David, who to my knowledge nobody has heard anything from, who are the others who will most certainly do the same if Young walks?

  231. Bullsh!t. He signed a legally binding contract with the university that prevented us from recruiting other players at his position because his spot was filled. And if he walks, there will most certainly be other kids that do the same.

    Stand up and be a man Barry.

    Not trying to be argumentative, but a school never looks good when this happens and after several writers bring this kind of situation to light, the school always changes their mind and grants a release.   I don't think we'll block him.  Guess we'll see.

  232. If this guy wants to go to OSU then let him.

    You have to be in his shoes:

    He chose the staff at Butler over a school he grew up watching and rooting for.

    now this staff is at the school he grew up watching and rooting for.

    Seems like a homerun for him. I bet most would do the same.

  233. He was promoted to a position as a low-paying AC when the program had 1/10 the budget it does today and we were in the HO League.  Any other awful analogies?

    Point being that our HC at the time had worked with Brad for a year and he was able to judge Brad's ability by looking at more than a piece of paper. Maybe, just maybe, our new HC is doing that now. We either trust that Barry and LaVall to make similar assessments of someone's talents or we don't.

  234. Besides Christian David, who to my knowledge nobody has heard anything from, who are the others who will most certainly do the same if Young walks?

    All of the other recruits reaffirmed their commitments.

  235. Besides Christian David, who to my knowledge nobody has heard anything from, who are the others who will most certainly do the same if Young walks?

    The other 3 have only confirmed they are coming, Neese was never in doubt, JGB was very public about his intention to stay with Butler, and Thompson's dad has said that he will stay committed to playing for Butler.

  236. If this guy wants to go to OSU then let him.

    You have to be in his shoes:

    He chose the staff at Butler over a school he grew up watching and rooting for.

    now this staff is at the school he grew up watching and rooting for.

    Seems like a homerun for him. I bet most would do the same.

    Totally agree.  We are all going thru the stages of grief and nearing the acceptance stage.  I won't be upset with either David or Young if they decommit and go to OSU. I won't be upset with Jordan or Barry or Butler. Holtmann yes. So far everything I have seen  from him has negatively impacted my prior impressions.  Phony comes to mind.

  237. If this guy wants to go to OSU then let him.

    You have to be in his shoes:

    He chose the staff at Butler over a school he grew up watching and rooting for.

    now this staff is at the school he grew up watching and rooting for.

    Seems like a homerun for him. I bet most would do the same.

    Regardless of right or wrong, contract or whatever, if Butler allows Young to go to OSU, this can and will set off issues for other schools going forward.  If your coach leaves, you can follow him, "Butler allowed it!"  FWIW, I cannot find 1 scenario where this happened.  Granted, I've only spent a few hours looking over late coaching moves, but I cannot find 1 example for Basketball or Football after the prospect signed the NLI.

    I get the press covers this story when a coach takes hard lines or limits the schools a player can transfer, but I would be surprised if the press would be all the upset with Butler saying, "He can go to any D-1 school in the nation, just not where our ex-HC left."  I'm guess sports writers would understand why and the backlash would be more against Holtmann (tampering) than Butler.

    I may be proven wrong, but this will set precedent if it goes down.

  238. He signed a legally binding contract with the university that prevented us from recruiting other players at his position because his spot was filled.

    That is not remotely close to how letters of intent work.

  239. Not trying to be argumentative, but a school never looks good when this happens and after several writers bring this kind of situation to light, the school always changes their mind and grants a release.   I don't think we'll block him.  Guess we'll see.

    I'm not arguing with you. I'm pissed as hell if the administration allows this to happen. You don't want to play for BU. Fine, go to prep school and take a year off while you refine your game & abide by the NLI you signed with us.

    Under no circumstances should we be a pushover and let Holt rob the best class we've ever had on his way out the door. F*ck him. This is about acting like we're in a power conference instead of just another a stepping stone school.

  240. That is not remotely close to how letters of intent work.

    This is about the formal process & intent of the staff. Once you fill a slot on the roster with a committed Top 100 kid, typically you don't recruit others for the same spot. One the kid signs a NLI, there is no virtually need to keep recruiting that spot at all.

  241. This is about the formal process & intent of the staff. Once you fill a slot on the roster with a committed Top 100 kid, typically you don't recruit others for the same spot. One the kid signs a NLI, there is no virtually need to keep recruiting that spot at all.

    "typically you don't recruit others" and "there is virtually no need to keep recruiting" =/= "a legally binding contract… that prevented us from recruiting other players at his position"

    In short, the NLI has absolutely nothing to do with recruiting types of players.  No, the only so-called contractual agreement in terms of recruiting strategy is a verbal agreement between the coach and the player.

  242. This is about the formal process & intent of the staff. Once you fill a slot on the roster with a committed Top 100 kid, typically you don't recruit others for the same spot. One the kid signs a NLI, there is no virtually need to keep recruiting that spot at all.

    Disagree on this.  You always want to continue to improve your roster.   There are very few defined roles on the floor anymore.  A PF can play C.  A SF can play SG.   Chrab and Wideman , both listed as PF, were on the floor a lot together.  You get the best players you can and figure it out after you have your roster.

    Do you think Pitino had any issues signing Bowen after he had Nwora on board?  None.

  243. So, I don't know if it means anything (and I'm actually not 100% sure I'm right), but it looks to me like Kyle changed his twitter profile picture today….to a close-up picture of him in a Butler uniform.  I can't remember what his picture before this one looked like, but I'm pretty sure it has changed.  Can anyone confirm? 

    https://twitter.com/kyleyoung_35?lang=en

  244. So, I don't know if it means anything (and I'm actually not 100% sure I'm right), but it looks to me like Kyle changed his twitter profile picture today….to a close-up picture of him in a Butler uniform.

    It might have changed a handful of days or more than a week ago, but it's the same profile picture (spinning ball) that he's had the last few days.

  245. Something else to consider.  Q&A from NLI website, "The conversation does not have to result in recruiting discussion for a recruiting ban violation to occur."  I'm not naive to think OSU cannot skirt this rule, but from his High School coach and others on this board it seems OSU has been in contact with KY.  If so, and it can be proved, this will create issues for OSU.  Not a great 1st impression for CH.

    If KY and/or David go to OSU, I would think the NCAA will take a looksy at this.

  246. It might have changed a handful of days or more than a week ago, but it's the same profile picture (spinning ball) that he's had the last few days.

    Thanks.  It's possible it just hadn't updated on my phone.

  247. Disagree on this.  You always want to continue to improve your roster.   There are very few defined roles on the floor anymore.  A PF can play C.  A SF can play SG.   Chrab and Wideman , both listed as PF, were on the floor a lot together.  You get the best players you can and figure it out after you have your roster.

    This is especially appropriate for Young.  He's an undersized hybrid PF.  He doesn't have a true position.  You play him how the defense most poorly guards him.  I mean, Christian David is about the same height, but those two don't play the same style of basketball at all.   In essence, Young doesn't really have a so-called spot in the recruiting class.  It's not like he's a pure point guard or a pure center.

  248. Something else to consider.  Q&A from NLI website, "The conversation does not have to result in recruiting discussion for a recruiting ban violation to occur."  I'm not naive to think OSU cannot skirt this rule, but from his High School coach and others on this board it seems OSU has been in contact with KY.  If so, and it can be proved, this will create issues for OSU.  Not a great 1st impression for CH.

    If KY and/or David go to OSU, I would think the NCAA will take a looksy at this.

    If the mess down in Chapel Hill has taught us anything, OSU will not face any trouble even if the NCAA is aware of violations.

  249. I can say with 10000% certainty that Barry would never even remotely consider blocking a kid from going where he wants.

    This is the Butler Way.

    Yes he would if AD's from the Pac-10, ACC, B-10 and others tell him he will not get games if he allows a departing HC to take an NLI recruit with him.  Think about it, it would be bad for ALL SCHOOLS!  If I'm Lynn Swann, I'd call Collier in a NY minute and tell him, "If you allow this, what stops my rising star, Andy Enfield, from leaving with his recruits?"  "And, they will all point to Butler doing it 1st."

    AD's and Conference officials are politicians and they want/need control.  If Butler is the reason they lose some control, BU can/will be harmed.  Politicians don't always play nice.  They don't always live, 'The Butler Way'

  250. Something else to consider.  Q&A from NLI website, "The conversation does not have to result in recruiting discussion for a recruiting ban violation to occur."  I'm not naive to think OSU cannot skirt this rule, but from his High School coach and others on this board it seems OSU has been in contact with KY.  If so, and it can be proved, this will create issues for OSU.  Not a great 1st impression for CH.

    If KY and/or David go to OSU, I would think the NCAA will take a looksy at this.

    Remember Pedon and Johnson aren't *officially OSU employees yet

  251. Something else to consider.  Q&A from NLI website, "The conversation does not have to result in recruiting discussion for a recruiting ban violation to occur."  I'm not naive to think OSU cannot skirt this rule, but from his High School coach and others on this board it seems OSU has been in contact with KY.  If so, and it can be proved, this will create issues for OSU.  Not a great 1st impression for CH.

    If KY and/or David go to OSU, I would think the NCAA will take a looksy at this.

    This is THE Ohio State.  The NCAA won't do anything. Too much money.

  252. Yes he would if AD's from the Pac-10, ACC, B-10 and others tell him he will not get games if he allows a departing HC to take an NLI recruit with him.  Think about it, it would be bad for ALL SCHOOLS!  If I'm Lynn Swann, I'd call Collier in a NY minute and tell him, "If you allow this, what stops my rising star, Andy Enfield, from leaving with his recruits?"  "And, they will all point to Butler doing it 1st."

    AD's and Conference officials are politicians and they want/need control.  If Butler is the reason they lose some control, BU can/will be harmed.  Politicians don't always play nice.  They don't always live, 'The Butler Way'

    Give it a rest. We will not restrict him if he asks for a release. That's the right thing to do, regardless of precedent, which I think you are overplaying anyway.

  253. Yeah, lets treat him like an employee of Butler, not a student athlete, and put in a non-compete blocking O$U! He signed a contract to Butler, not Holtmann!

    Non-compete clauses are first agreed upon by the two parties.  As an employer, you can't just throw one in when it suits you.

  254. Regardless of right or wrong, contract or whatever, if Butler allows Young to go to OSU, this can and will set off issues for other schools going forward.  If your coach leaves, you can follow him, "Butler allowed it!"  FWIW, I cannot find 1 scenario where this happened.  Granted, I've only spent a few hours looking over late coaching moves, but I cannot find 1 example for Basketball or Football after the prospect signed the NLI.

    I get the press covers this story when a coach takes hard lines or limits the schools a player can transfer, but I would be surprised if the press would be all the upset with Butler saying, "He can go to any D-1 school in the nation, just not where our ex-HC left."  I'm guess sports writers would understand why and the backlash would be more against Holtmann (tampering) than Butler.

    I may be proven wrong, but this will set precedent if it goes down.

    I placed an earlier post that this happened 2 years ago at ASU with Bobby Hurley taking a recruit Torian Graham and the star Shannon Evans II (Shannon had to sit a year) from Buffalo.

  255. My thoughts for whatever they are worth on the 2 recruits in discussion; If either have intensions of playing at the next level get GH and SM involved. Even Thad if he is allowed. Who has CH, RP or TJ (as an AC) taken to the next level? Val has taken players to that level. I also wonder what CH will do with Greg Oden who Thad brought back as a scholarship student-manager to finish his degree.

  256. Ultimately, you have to let KY make the decision…I hope he wants to play and get an education at Butler.  But, if he doesn't you let him go.  Would it hurt to lose a player of his ability?  Absolutely! If he ends up at OSU, it is more an indictment of Holtmann and his staff.  Did he do great things at Butler? Yes he did.  But honestly, didn't BU do great things for him as well?  If he or others are currently recruiting a committed player then it is best that we move on from the Holtmann era as quickly as possible…it's not the Butler Way.  I'm optimistic for the future and hope that that future includes Kyle, Christian, and the rest of the incoming class.

  257. The idea of punishing KY for backing out of his commitment in this situation is wrongheaded and vindictive (and yes, it's still absolutely a punishment to him if you block only his 2nd-choice school.).  This is a crap situation for him too– he was sold on the Butler academic experience, a defined role on a quality team from day 1, and a coaching staff that had a clear scheme and development plan for him.  Now, he has to choose between the school and roster situation he was prepped for at Butler but an unknown staff, or the coaching staff he committed to now at Ohio State in the beginning of a complete rebuild.  Oh, and he has only two weeks to make his choice.

    And the idea of Butler somehow setting a binding precedent for other schools by allowing their recruits the freedom to rethink this choice is ridiculous.  First of all, it's a transparent way to justify a shitty move, and secondly, other big-time athletic departments are happy to ignore us and continue to do whatever they want to try and get a leg up, just like they always have.

    Maybe other programs would block OSU from his release, but that's never been Butler's style and it shouldn't be now.  And if you can't stomach any perceived lack of ruthlessness or moral grandstanding it would imply, you've picked the wrong program to support.

    Sorry, end rant.

  258. I hope he wants to play for Butler, but just not on board of letting him follow the coach who dropped us.  Doesn't want to honor his commitment then send him on his way with the best of wishes, just don't reward the coach that moved on…  He's got a lot of choices that don't involve Holt, including going to a great school with a great team, so there is no punishment in saying he can't go with one choice…

  259. LaVall just said on Kent Sterling's show that he has talked to all the recruits on the phone and that the conversations went "really well" and he's hoping to meet face to face with them soon. Young's mind may or may not be made up, but nothing is set in stone right now.

  260. The idea of punishing KY for backing out of his commitment in this situation is wrongheaded and vindictive (and yes, it's still absolutely a punishment to him if you block only his 2nd-choice school.).  This is a crap situation for him too– he was sold on the Butler academic experience, a defined role on a quality team from day 1, and a coaching staff that had a clear scheme and development plan for him.  Now, he has to choose between the school and roster situation he was prepped for at Butler but an unknown staff, or the coaching staff he committed to now at Ohio State in the beginning of a complete rebuild.  Oh, and he has only two weeks to make his choice.

    And the idea of Butler somehow setting a binding precedent for other schools by allowing their recruits the freedom to rethink this choice is ridiculous.  First of all, it's a transparent way to justify a ****ty move, and secondly, other big-time athletic departments are happy to ignore us and continue to do whatever they want to try and get a leg up, just like they always have.

    Maybe other programs would block OSU from his release, but that's never been Butler's style and it shouldn't be now.  And if you can't stomach any perceived lack of ruthlessness or moral grandstanding it would imply, you've picked the wrong program to support.

    Sorry, end rant.

    Well said.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

  261. I think that's pretty much all it is – LaVall isn't going to say his discussions with the recruits went horribly.  Hopefully they actually did go well, because Butler needs all hands on deck going forward.

  262. I am curious how many people would change their tune on Holtmann if KY ends up committing to Butler.  He then becomes Lickliter, to a lesser extent, right?

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

    Idk, did Lickliter try and get Matt Howard to follow him to Iowa? I know it's different, and that Howard didn't choose Butler over Iowa like this situation, but still.

  263. What tickles me a little, he could have been part of a bad ass team that would get to and advance aplenty in the dance. Now he's going to a rebuild where maybe as a Junior he'll have a shot to boogie. I hate to say it, but, If I liked butler AND holtmann…….why would I NOT go to the better situation? Whoever starts at PG, you have one of the most talented starting 5 in the conference. Now, you are going to a shit show where you are simply riding on hope to straighten things out.

  264. I am curious how many people would change their tune on Holtmann if KY ends up committing to Butler.  He then becomes Lickliter, to a lesser extent, right?

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    Wouldn't change mine in the least.  Holt did good things at BU and I don't wish him ill will personally.  Hate how he left and when taking some good assistants with him, so it hurts, but I don't give a rat's arse what a message board thinks about my professional or personal decisions, so I doubt that Holt does either.  So I hope personally he has a great life, but professionally: Hope he goes down in a flaming wreck!  Kyle Young is a young man that thought about both schools and if we let him move off with Holt, I'll not wish him ill either…  Kyle can go on to NBA star and won't mind a bit though.  (Hard to reconcile both the flaming wreck and him doing well though, 😉 )  Stay a Dawg KY and CD!

  265. I am curious how many people would change their tune on Holtmann if KY ends up committing to Butler.  He then becomes Lickliter, to a lesser extent, right?

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    After Holtmann has made statements that he wants Butler to keep their recruits, I would certainly feel a little animosity towards him if he then takes Young with him. I just hate hypocritical statements like that. If he never would have made those statements then I wouldn't feel that way, because that's just the business. It's just like taking the assistants. I don't like it, but I understand it's how it works. If Holtmann really meant what he said about Butler's recruiting class then he won't take Young. We will see.

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  266. After Holtmann has made statements that he wants Butler to keep their recruits, I would certainly feel a little animosity towards him if he then takes Young with him. I just hate hypocritical statements like that. If he never would have made those statements then I wouldn't feel that way, because that's just the business. It's just like taking the assistants. I don't like it, but I understand it's how it works. If Holtmann really meant what he said about Butler's recruiting class then he won't take Young. We will see.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    But what if Young says he isn't going to Butler? That means Holtmann either takes him or Holtmann coaches against him when he goes to Purdue/Michigan (I believe they were also recruiting him hard?). Not sure it changes much, but would be a little bit different than Holtmann taking Young from Butler IMO. Although, we would probably never know if it were true or not.

  267. After Holtmann has made statements that he wants Butler to keep their recruits, I would certainly feel a little animosity towards him if he then takes Young with him. I just hate hypocritical statements like that. If he never would have made those statements then I wouldn't feel that way, because that's just the business. It's just like taking the assistants. I don't like it, but I understand it's how it works. If Holtmann really meant what he said about Butler's recruiting class then he won't take Young. We will see.

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    This is where I am too.  It's the same thing with the tweet about the important summer and then turning around and accepting the job.  Just the action on it's own isn't so bad, but the hypocrisy is too much.

  268. Willis doesn't break news, he hedges behind generic and probable predictions so he can claim he knew it all along.

    You forgot the part where he rubs everyone's noses in it too.

  269. But what if Young says he isn't going to Butler? That means Holtmann either takes him or Holtmann coaches against him when he goes to Purdue/Michigan (I believe they were also recruiting him hard?). Not sure it changes much, but would be a little bit different than Holtmann taking Young from Butler IMO. Although, we would probably never know if it were true or not.

    Where has he said that?  If that was the case, he would have already decommitted like Justin Ahrens did with Thad.

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  270. How/why is Young thinking of transfering though? I mean someone had to say you know if you force their hand BU may let you go.   I really hope he stays cause he would help us alot. He would have lots of playing time.

  271. How/why is Young thinking of transfering though? I mean someone had to say you know if you force their hand BU may let you go.   I really hope he stays cause he would help us alot. He would have lots of playing time.

    And that's the only reason he's thinking of staying. He'd start all four years.

  272. And that's the only reason he's thinking of staying. He'd start all four years.

    I get what you're saying, but the whole thing is bull.  There are thousands of things better about Butler than OSU, and most of those are still in place.  At the same time, there are thousands of things better about OSU than Butler.  To change the decision based on a few of thousands of things being different, not even necessarily worse, means that the original decision was not made for the right reasons.  It makes much more sense to pick a team for playing time than for a coaching staff.

  273. Can someone tweet this to KY and CD? From Jerald Butler…. It's a great feeling to be part of BU

    These are the kind of guys I want at Butler. They want to be here and love the program. Butler and Neese have proven to be BU guys through and through. It'll show on the court too.

  274. But what if Young says he isn't going to Butler? That means Holtmann either takes him or Holtmann coaches against him when he goes to Purdue/Michigan (I believe they were also recruiting him hard?). Not sure it changes much, but would be a little bit different than Holtmann taking Young from Butler IMO. Although, we would probably never know if it were true or not.

    If he opens it up, then sure. But I have a hard time believing that will happen this late. I can't believe it's going to be anything other than Ohio State or Butler. Either Holtmann steals him from Butler or he encourages him to stay. I actually believe a lot of it is on Holtmann here. I respect Holtmann a ton, and his comments are a big reason why I've predicted Young will stay. Because Holtmann has generally been a pretty sincere person. We will say how things go.

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  275. To be fair, Kyle could be this same way about BU. No one can fault him for evaluating his situation, just hope that he understands the many positives that Butler can and will provide him, not just on the court, but throughout his life.  I'll be glad when we hear something straight from Kyle or his family (& not the folks who obviously want to see him go to OSU).  Whether that's today or next week, hope he is ready to be a Bulldog!

  276. I think if KY asks for a release, Butler should grant him a release with the condition that he cannot enroll at Ohio State for next season. It has nothing to do with KY or Holtmann specifically. Rather, it is because the athletic program should set a clear precedent that if another program poaches our coach, that same program will not also be able to poach our players. That, in turn, might make it a tiny bit easier to keep our coaches and protect our program and players.

    I think all schools should adopt this policy as it would eliminate the consideration of a coach's current recruits when deciding whether or not to hire him. This also clearly places the blame on the coach and NOT the university when a recruit is upset at not being coached by the coach of their choice. It gives more incentive for a coach to be committed to their school because recruits are more reluctant to sign with a school whose coach lacks commitment.

  277. I think if KY asks for a release, Butler should grant him a release with the condition that he cannot enroll at Ohio State for next season. It has nothing to do with KY or Holtmann specifically. Rather, it is because the athletic program should set a clear precedent that if another program poaches our coach, that same program will not also be able to poach our players. That, in turn, might make it a tiny bit easier to keep our coaches and protect our program and players.

    I think all schools should adopt this policy as it would eliminate the consideration of a coach's current recruits when deciding whether or not to hire him. This also clearly places the blame on the coach and NOT the university when a recruit is upset at not being coached by the coach of their choice. It gives more incentive for a coach to be committed to their school because recruits are more reluctant to sign with a school whose coach lacks commitment.

    Sounds ideal, but this won't work.  Butler will look bad doing this because you're preventing the kid from going where he really wants to be, regardless if it's because of the coach or not.  I can guarantee you Bilas would gladly drag Butler through the mud.

  278. It should be the policy of Butler University that whenever a coach voluntarily leaves the university to accept a position with another program, that coach's players and recruits will be granted a release from their obligations to the university with the lone condition that they cannot follow the coach to his or her new program. If not for this policy, schools with vast economic resources would be able to effectively purchase recruits by hiring a new coach. Such behavior would go against the spirit of intercollegiate athletics and would be the antithesis of the Butler Way.

  279. … the athletic program should set a clear precedent that if another program poaches our coach, that same program will not also be able to poach our players.

    I think all schools should adopt this policy as it would eliminate the consideration of a coach's current recruits when deciding whether or not to hire him. This also clearly places the blame on the coach and NOT the university when a recruit is upset at not being coached by the coach of their choice. It gives more incentive for a coach to be committed to their school because recruits are more reluctant to sign with a school whose coach lacks commitment.

    That may sound like a good idea, but the unforeseen consequence is that more and more players would simply choose not to sign letters of intent, especially to programs whose coaches are often poached and to programs that have up-and-coming coaches.  This would be a dagger for so-called mid-majors. 

    As the National Lettter of Intent program stands right now, I would not even recommend that highly regarded recruits sign the pledge.  The only benefit for them is that they will no longer receive contact from recruiters.  Otherwise, they're under the whim of the program.  Heck, the player is not guaranteed a spot and a scholarship even after signing.  The institution can simply deny admittance to the school because the player is not a fit for, say, a nebulous scholastic reason.

    The NLI program is already tilted toward the programs instead of the players.  Removing a player's "out" if there is a coaching change further diminishes the control the young player has over his own future.  I think a reasonable compromise is that a program may deny the player leaving with the coach if the coach is going to a program within the same conference.

  280. It should be the policy of Butler University that whenever a coach voluntarily leaves the university to accept a position with another program, that coach's players and recruits will be granted a release from their obligations to the university with the lone condition that they cannot follow the coach to his or her new program. If not for this policy, schools with vast economic resources would be able to effectively purchase recruits by hiring a new coach. Such behavior would go against the spirit of intercollegiate athletics and would be the antithesis of the Butler Way.

    Question……what provision is or can be inserted into the LoI to make this policy enforceable?

    A player can sign the LoI, but upon receiving the release, what restrains the player from defaulting on the letter and simply enrolling in the destination school of the coach?  Would the NCAA enforce the provision?

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  281. Question……what provision is or can be inserted into the LoI to make this policy enforceable?

    A player can sign the LoI, but upon receiving the release, what restrains the player from defaulting on the letter and simply enrolling in the destination school of the coach?  Would the NCAA enforce the provision?

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    I will fully admit I don't know the laws here, but I would guess it could somehow be worked into the buyout some way or another.

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  282. If he opens it up, then sure. But I have a hard time believing that will happen this late. I can't believe it's going to be anything other than Ohio State or Butler. Either Holtmann steals him from Butler or he encourages him to stay. I actually believe a lot of it is on Holtmann here. I respect Holtmann a ton, and his comments are a big reason why I've predicted Young will stay. Because Holtmann has generally been a pretty sincere person. We will say how things go.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    If Holtmann is really telling him what's best for him how does he sell playing at Butler in this situation? "Yeah you should definitely go play for an unproven coach at Butler instead of coming with me for a higher profile school where you know the entire staff and have better education options…" I just don't see what people are expecting from Holtmann here.

  283. I will fully admit I don't know the laws here, but I would guess it could somehow be worked into the buyout some way or another.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    According to the NCAA "When a student-athlete officially commits to attend a Division I or II college, he or she signs a National Letter of Intent, agreeing to attend that school for one academic year." It is enforceable and if the AD does not release the athlete, the athlete must sit one year before signing a second NLI. The Letter does include language that the student is aware of changes may occur i.e. coaching, etc. Academically if the desired major (course of study) if stated in the NLI becomes unavailable the student is released.

  284. Question……what provision is or can be inserted into the LoI to make this policy enforceable?

    There is no provision, but a school can just say, "We'll release you from the NLI only if you don't go to the school where the coach is going."  Of course, if the player makes that promise and is then released, he can just renege on that agreement and go there anyway.  Once the player is released, he's released.

    A player can sign the LoI, but upon receiving the release, what restrains the player from defaulting on the letter and simply enrolling in the destination school of the coach?  Would the NCAA enforce the provision?

    I'm not sure I follow.  Once released, there is no letter to default on.

  285. Question……what provision is or can be inserted into the LoI to make this policy enforceable?

    There is no provision, but the program could just say, "We'll release you from the NLI only if you don't go to the school where the coach is going."  Of course, the player could make that promise and then immediately renege on it by committing to that school.  Once released, the player is free to do what he wants.

    A player can sign the LoI, but upon receiving the release, what restrains the player from defaulting on the letter and simply enrolling in the destination school of the coach?  Would the NCAA enforce the provision?

    I don't follow.  Once the player is released, there is no letter to default on.  Now if you're talking about the hypothetical provision of denying the release to where the coach is going, well, any change would have to be universally set by the NLI program itself.  A program just cannot add a provision to the existing NLI.

  286. I will fully admit I don't know the laws here, but I would guess it could somehow be worked into the buyout some way or another.

    The only way a recruit could be worked into a buyout would be with a wink and a nod.  Otherwise, a buyout agreement between two programs based on where some recruits go would be… well… a major NCAA violation.

  287. In the article I just read on Tyler's Twitter, it says Kyle will meet with Lavall this wk. Does that mean face to face? Is he going to Ohio to visit then?

    Sounds like he's going to have a face to face with LaVall before deciding anything.  He can't talk with OSU directly until released, right? So, LaVall should have his undivided attention this week.

  288. It just seems so late to c

    Sounds like he's going to have a face to face with LaVall before deciding anything.  He can't talk with OSU directly until released, right? So, LaVall should have his undivided attention this week.

    He'd lose a year, too, I believe. If it was before the release of his NLI.

  289. If Holtmann is really telling him what's best for him how does he sell playing at Butler in this situation? "Yeah you should definitely go play for an unproven coach at Butler instead of coming with me for a higher profile school where you know the entire staff and have better education options…" I just don't see what people are expecting from Holtmann here.

    Holtmann cant talk to him so he doesn't have to say anything and if he does its a violation.

  290. There is no provision, but the program could just say, "We'll release you from the NLI only if you don't go to the school where the coach is going."  Of course, the player could make that promise and then immediately renege on it by committing to that school.  Once released, the player is free to do what he wants.

    I don't follow.  Once the player is released, there is no letter to default on.  Now if you're talking about the hypothetical provision of denying the release to where the coach is going, well, any change would have to be universally set by the NLI program itself.  A program just cannot add a provision to the existing NLI.

    Clarify…..the condition would be attached to the release (assuming the release takes the form of a separate document or addendum to LoI).  The provision would be, in this case, that the release would no longer be effective if the player enrolled at NNN school (in this case, Ohio State).

    My guess is, such a provision would be unenforceable, assuming we would willingly invite the bad press to write it into the release.

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  291. Why can't we just let KY do whatever he thinks is best.  I don't recall anyone having a problem with Ron Nored bailing on WKU when they had a coaching change.  Also, if the situation was reversed and LaVall had signed a top 100 recruit that chose UWM over Butler I doubt anyone would be saying that the kid would need to fulfill his commitment to UWM and if he didn't want to play there, he should go anywhere but Butler.

  292. In Lavall"s face to face with KY and hopefully CD, I hope he uses words like "we" will do great things at BU. "We" as in the whole team can't wait to go to Spain. I can't wait to work with you on the court and start you from Day 1.

  293. The only way a recruit could be worked into a buyout would be with a wink and a nod.  Otherwise, a buyout agreement between two programs based on where some recruits go would be… well… a major NCAA violation.

    Well, it wouldn't necessarily be like that. It would basically be a buyout agreement that states that the new coach cannot take any signed recruits. Butler technically controls them anyways. To me that is no different than conference agreeements that state a transfer or signed recruit can't go to a school within in the conference.

    Of course maybe coaches simply wouldn't agree to include that in their buyout. Or it would significantly reduce the dollar value. I don't know.

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  294. The idea of punishing KY for backing out of his commitment in this situation is wrongheaded and vindictive (and yes, it's still absolutely a punishment to him if you block only his 2nd-choice school.).  This is a crap situation for him too– he was sold on the Butler academic experience, a defined role on a quality team from day 1, and a coaching staff that had a clear scheme and development plan for him.  Now, he has to choose between the school and roster situation he was prepped for at Butler but an unknown staff, or the coaching staff he committed to now at Ohio State in the beginning of a complete rebuild.  Oh, and he has only two weeks to make his choice.

    And the idea of Butler somehow setting a binding precedent for other schools by allowing their recruits the freedom to rethink this choice is ridiculous.  First of all, it's a transparent way to justify a ****ty move, and secondly, other big-time athletic departments are happy to ignore us and continue to do whatever they want to try and get a leg up, just like they always have.

    Maybe other programs would block OSU from his release, but that's never been Butler's style and it shouldn't be now.  And if you can't stomach any perceived lack of ruthlessness or moral grandstanding it would imply, you've picked the wrong program to support.

    Sorry, end rant.

     Couldn't agree more.  I follow Butler athletics for more than just the sport aspect even though I am an alum.  Character and high standards of behavior on the part of faculty, staff, and students are very important to me.

  295. We all know Barry will not limit Kyle Young, so the speculation, while entertaining, is moot.  LaVall will  make his best pitch in person and then Barry will allow KY to follow his choice.  Those of you wanting BU to play hard ball have forgotten what the Butler brand is.  This is not a situation where there is any benefit to abandoning the brand.

    After hearing LaVall's radio interview and watching him answer a similar question in the presser, it's clear he's fighting an uphill battle on Young and David.  I'm not optimistic at this time, but man, no question he will be impressive in their living rooms.

  296. I think if KY asks for a release, Butler should grant him a release with the condition that he cannot enroll at Ohio State for next season. It has nothing to do with KY or Holtmann specifically. Rather, it is because the athletic program should set a clear precedent that if another program poaches our coach, that same program will not also be able to poach our players. That, in turn, might make it a tiny bit easier to keep our coaches and protect our program and players.

    That can't be done.  You cannot identify schools that can't recruit an athlete in a NLI release.  It is either ALL schools can or cannot recruit you.  Transfers can be different, but that is not what we are talking about.

    The following is from the NCAA website.

    If I fail to honor my NLI commitment, is it possible for another NLI institution to recruit me?

    Yes, but only if you have received a complete release or had the NLI recruiting ban lifted by the institution with which you signed. The lifting of the NLI recruiting ban must be indicated on the NLI Release Request Form. If the NLI recruiting ban is lifted, it is not limited to certain institutions, but to all institutions seeking to recruit you.

  297. Clarify…..the condition would be attached to the release (assuming the release takes the form of a separate document or addendum to LoI).  The provision would be, in this case, that the release would no longer be effective if the player enrolled at NNN school (in this case, Ohio State).

    My guess is, such a provision would be unenforceable, assuming we would willingly invite the bad press to write it into the release.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    The only example I could find was Xavier Henry's under the table agreement w/ Memphis. There was a lot of thought Calipari might bolt, so he had some sort of doc (unenforceable) that would release him from his NLI if Calipari left. Calipari left, Memphis released him from his NLI, Xavier went to Kansas.

  298. That can't be done.  You cannot identify schools that can't recruit an athlete in a NLI release.  It is either ALL schools can or cannot recruit you.  Transfers can be different, but that is not what we are talking about.

    The following is from the NCAA website.

    If I fail to honor my NLI commitment, is it possible for another NLI institution to recruit me?

    Yes, but only if you have received a complete release or had the NLI recruiting ban lifted by the institution with which you signed. The lifting of the NLI recruiting ban must be indicated on the NLI Release Request Form. If the NLI recruiting ban is lifted, it is not limited to certain institutions, but to all institutions seeking to recruit you.

    There is also a stipulation, that a school could provide a limited release, essentially a transfer, whereas the recruit could go anywhere, but would have to 'red-shirt' 1 year.

    This could be used, albeit I don't see it happening, until KY and/or chose their transfer institutions. Once they decide, Collier could grant full release (eligible immediately) or not (sit out a year).

  299. IndyStar Sports‏Verified account @IndyStarSports  15m15 minutes ago

    Kyle Young is torn over whether to keep his commitment to the #Butler basketball program.

    http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2017/06/14/report-recruit-kyle-young-trying-decide-whether-stick-butler-after-coaching-change/396781001/

    If true (that Kyle is "torn"), that's great news.  I assumed he was gone.  Torn on his part means LaVall goes in with a chance.  And that's really all I think he needs–a legitimate opportunity to make his case as to how LaVall's coaching will lead to Kyle's greatest chance for success.

  300. Like that Lavall will have the opportunity to have in person with both.  He's charismatic and easy to like. We will see.

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  301. If true (that Kyle is "torn"), that's great news.  I assumed he was gone.  Torn on his part means LaVall goes in with a chance.  And that's really all I think he needs–a legitimate opportunity to make his case as to how LaVall's coaching will lead to Kyle's greatest chance for success.

    Agreed.  This is great news.  I'm hoping if LaVall shows the same kind of enthusiasm as he did in the press conference and radio interviews yesterday, we will have some good news in a few days.  I was ready to start waiting in line at Hinkle for the first game after watching the press conference.

  302. I feel if he actually takes that full amount of time, he's going to stick with Butler.  If he decides in the next day or so, the opposite.

  303. I feel if he actually takes that full amount of time, he's going to stick with Butler.  If he decides in the next day or so, the opposite.

    Or if he takes the full amount of time then he is leaving, and possibly if it is more than a couple days, but not the full time it could go the other way.

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  304. Or if he takes the full amount of time then he is leaving, and possibly if it is more than a couple days, but not the full time it could go the other way.

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Butler Hoops mobile app

    Basically we can't get inside of his head, but I do trust that he will make the right decision for him.  I hope the choice is Butler, but I would rather have him be sure and commited to the Butler Way of he stays here.  So take all the time you need Kyle, and make the choice that is right for you.

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  305. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FSR816/history/20170615/1414Z/KIND/KAKR

    Pretty confident LaVall met with KY today.

    1) that's not a commercial flight

    2) how many people in Indy needed to charter themselves to the greater Akron area today?

    3) LaVall couldn't make his scheduled afternoon Dakich show call because a meeting ran late.

    The odds of those things all being coincidental are basically 0.  Hope the meeting went well.  It ran late – can't be a bad thing.

  306. IndyStar Sports‏Verified account @IndyStarSports  15m15 minutes ago

    Kyle Young is torn over whether to keep his commitment to the #Butler basketball program.

    http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/butler/2017/06/14/report-recruit-kyle-young-trying-decide-whether-stick-butler-after-coaching-change/396781001/

    How can it not be a recruiting violation for Young's coach to be talking to holtman?

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Butler Hoops mobile app

  307. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FSR816/history/20170615/1414Z/KIND/KAKR

    Pretty confident LaVall met with KY today.

    1) that's not a commercial flight

    2) how many people in Indy needed to charter themselves to the greater Akron area today?

    3) LaVall couldn't make his scheduled afternoon Dakich show call because a meeting ran late.

    The odds of those things all being coincidental are basically 0.  Hope the meeting went well.  It ran late – can't be a bad thing.

    This is amazing dedication to get the scoop.  Probably the most above and beyond thing i have ever seen in order to get the info you and I need. 

    Flight data,  love it!

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Butler Hoops mobile app

  308. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FSR816/history/20170615/1414Z/KIND/KAKR

    Pretty confident LaVall met with KY today.

    1) that's not a commercial flight

    2) how many people in Indy needed to charter themselves to the greater Akron area today?

    3) LaVall couldn't make his scheduled afternoon Dakich show call because a meeting ran late.

    The odds of those things all being coincidental are basically 0.  Hope the meeting went well.  It ran late – can't be a bad thing.

    Hell yeah!  The only bad thing about all of this is I had to listen to the Dan Dakich show waiting for LaVall to come on.  Let's go!

  309. How can it not be a recruiting violation for Young's coach to be talking to holtman?

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Butler Hoops mobile app

    Pretty sure that as long as he is not talking to Kyle,  what would be wrong with it.  I mean, if I were Kyle I would want to know if I have a spot before backing off my NLI.   I'm sure this happens all the time.  He just can't talk to Kyle or talk about Kyle publicly.  

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Butler Hoops mobile app

  310. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/FSR816/history/20170615/1414Z/KIND/KAKR

    Pretty confident LaVall met with KY today.

    1) that's not a commercial flight

    2) how many people in Indy needed to charter themselves to the greater Akron area today?

    3) LaVall couldn't make his scheduled afternoon Dakich show call because a meeting ran late.

    The odds of those things all being coincidental are basically 0.  Hope the meeting went well.  It ran late – can't be a bad thing.

    I sincerely hope you are right, but it says it's not returning till tomorrow afternoon?  Could that mean multiple meetings and dinner/breakfast with KY and family today and tomorrow?  No sense you would think to stay that long if it was just one meeting?

  311. I sincerely hope you are right, but it says it's not returning till tomorrow afternoon?  Could that mean multiple meetings and dinner/breakfast with KY and family today and tomorrow?  No sense you would think to stay that long if it was just one meeting?

    When I originally found it, there was a scheduled flight back to Indy at three.  now it's showing a scheduled flight to Indy departing at 3:30 today (which was 10 mins ago) and a scheduled flight from Akron to Indy for tomorrow.

    Not sure what's going on.  It's certainly possible they've requested another meeting.  It's also possible there's a plane issue they've been trying to work out or the airport is experiencing delays.

    It's also possible the meeting is dragging on and on and they have to keep pushing the departure back.

    All I know is that I'm 98% sure LaVall is meeting with KY today.

  312. One thought I had- Pedon and Holtmann had to have spun a story to KY that Butler,being a smaller school with smaller class sizes, was a better choice for him than OSU and besides he would be a starter and play in historic Butler Fieldhouse.  Now they will have to spin the opposite story.  That isn't always an easy thing to accomplish.

  313. I can report that Lavall's meeting with KY and family went extremely well. Very tough decision now

    Flight back to Indy tomorrow is to either ask for release of LOI or reaffirm commitment with photo op

  314. I can report that Lavall's meeting with KY and family went extremely well. Very tough decision now

    Flight back to Indy tomorrow is to either ask for release of LOI or reaffirm commitment with photo op

    Would he really fly to Indy to ask for release?

    If one afternoon went really well, imagine 4 years. Agree with earlier post, if OSU gets a chance to recruit KY they have to now make their case for a large public football school versus small private basketball school. Here's hoping!

  315. I can report that Lavall's meeting with KY and family went extremely well. Very tough decision now

    Flight back to Indy tomorrow is to either ask for release of LOI or reaffirm commitment with photo op

    He's going to perhaps fly with LaVall on a charter jet tomorrow to ask for a release of LOI?  Something that can be done via email/scan/fax etc.? Huh?

  316. Who said with Lavall?

    Better to do in person if  you're leaving so all questions can be answered immediately.  Just the proper thing to do as well. You don't break up with someone over text. Not saying that will happen

  317. I can report that Lavall's meeting with KY and family went extremely well. Very tough decision now

    Flight back to Indy tomorrow is to either ask for release of LOI or reaffirm commitment with photo op

    Let's fricken go LaVall!!!!!!

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  318. He for sure met with KY today and is expected to meet with CD this week. Hopefully Lavall was able to pitch his assistants and a game plan to KY on such short notice.

  319. I can report that Lavall's meeting with KY and family went extremely well. Very tough decision now

    Flight back to Indy tomorrow is to either ask for release of LOI or reaffirm commitment with photo op

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

  320. Who said with Lavall?

    Better to do in person if  you're leaving so all questions can be answered immediately.  Just the proper thing to do as well. You don't break up with someone over text. Not saying that will happen

    The charter plane is still there and now may be scheduled to leave tomorrow, and you said flight tomorrow, so i assumed that's what you were referring to.

    So, you're just saying he's flying to indy one way or another tomorrow (good or bad), to make his decision?  That doesn't make a lot of sense, but we'll see.

  321. We know this is a BU flight how?

    The "torn" comment was Wood's words–the referenced article makes no such statement or even hints at that.

    There's no way they'd fly KY to Indy to ask for a release.  I don't think they can pay for transportation outside of an official visit.

  322. I sincerely hope you are right, but it says it's not returning till tomorrow afternoon?  Could that mean multiple meetings and dinner/breakfast with KY and family today and tomorrow?  No sense you would think to stay that long if it was just one meeting?

    I think LeBron knows he'll never beat the Warriors and is meeting with LaVall tomorrow to talk about a spot on the new staff.

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  323. He for sure met with KY today and is expected to meet with CD this week. Hopefully Lavall was able to pitch his assistants and a game plan to KY on such short notice.

    Big concern. KY still has no idea who he will be working with for skill development, unless LJ has one or two asst coaches lined up and is waiting to announce all of them at the same time.

  324. What if LaVall is pulling a Mizzou and the flight back isn't with KY but with his high school coach to announce he's been hired as a new AC!?!?! HAha that would crack my s**t up and probably send the whole buckeye nation into a meltdown. Oh wait, they don't really care about mens bball so probably no meltdown.

  325. Does anyone have any actual proof of anything other than a flight #?

    Dakich stated LaVall couldn't join because of a meeting with a recruit – this could really only be Christian or Kyle.  We know that there was a charter flight to Akron today from Indy.  I think the conclusion is a pretty good one to make.

  326. Dakich stated LaVall couldn't join because of a meeting with a recruit – this could really only be Christian or Kyle.  We know that there was a charter flight to Akron today from Indy.  I think the conclusion is a pretty good one to make.

    I'd agree that it could be his flight. But interested to know how people know the meeting went well.

  327. I'd agree that it could be his flight. But interested to know how people know the meeting went well.

    Same. I used to have some inside sources but since the whole staff left. I don't have much more than the general public now…. So if unless someone here has connects with Lavall, Young or Collier, no one knows for sure.

  328. I'd agree that it could be his flight. But interested to know how people know the meeting went well.

    I believe bulldogfan4life said he is from there and knows KY and family a little. I could be wrong.

  329. I'd agree that it could be his flight. But interested to know how people know the meeting went well.

    Second hand sources (coaches, former teammates etc) I know KY's hometown very well. Just laying it out there it could be wrong but what I'm hearing.

  330. I'd agree that it could be his flight. But interested to know how people know the meeting went well.

    Oh, OK.  Yeah, I'm very confident he was there but I don't really know how it went.  Just guessing it went well if it went long.

  331. Same. I used to have some inside sources but since the whole staff left. I don't have much more than the general public now…. So if unless someone here has connects with Lavall, Young or Collier, no one knows for sure.

    LoL, welcome to my world.  I used to have some inside scoop until 2 former assistants (not from the most recent staff) left.  Now I'm left with one minor source of info and he isn't in a position to get the juicy stuff.

  332. I would like this to wrap up ASAP because Jalen Coleman Lands is still on the board…. if Butler has a spot, it'd be worth pursuing.

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  333. I would like this to wrap up ASAP because Jalen Coleman Lands is still on the board…. if Butler has a spot, it'd be worth pursuing.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    Not for long.  X will get him. 

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  334. The plane that went from Indy to Akron and back today has a flight scheduled from Akron to Indy tomorrow afternoon. Could be a glitch, but wondering if a scheduled flight from Indy to Akron for tomorrow morning will post soon. LaVall may be heading back to see him again tomorrow.

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  335. Not sure I believe that.  The chartered flight + multiple people (one on here and one on twitter) saying that LJ and KY met today + no apparent good reason to visit Butler when he's 100% on board.  Yeah, not buying it.

  336. Not sure I believe that.  The chartered flight + multiple people (one on here and one on twitter) saying that LJ and KY met today + no apparent good reason to visit Butler when he's 100% on board.  Yeah, not buying it.

    So your saying he might take a flight tomorrow?

  337. So your saying he might take a flight tomorrow?

    No, I'm saying I'm not sure I believe that LaVall was visiting JB today based on everything we've heard.  I still think he was visiting KY.  I don't know what motivation Woods' source would have to throw misinformation at him, but it's possible there's a good reason or that it's simply a mistake on the source's or Woods' part.

    I'd be interested to hear @bulldogfan4life post as to his confidence that there was a meeting today, as he's the poster on here who said there was in fact a meeting and it went well (this was echoed by someone on twitter).

    I can report that Lavall's meeting with KY and family went extremely well. Very tough decision now

    Flight back to Indy tomorrow is to either ask for release of LOI or reaffirm commitment with photo op

  338. I liked the last bit of that article…

    Etc.

    Holtmann has suspended one of his Ohio State players, Derek Funderburk, for “failure to meet team expectations.” … Ohio State formally announced that all three of Holtmann’s Butler assistant coaches – Terry Johnson, Ryan Pedon, Mike Schrage – have joined his Buckeyes staff.

  339. Is Jurgen reliable fan?  Interesting thing about instagram of Jerald Butler is that Woods' story is accurate (that Vall was visiting J Butler) and that EK is clearly on new staff, perhaps in same role.

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  340. I don't know how reliable…hence the grains of salt. I'm not believing anything after Holts tweet last week until it's directly from Kyle…But I still have hope for now.

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  341. I don't know what to believe. I am in denial that it was coincidence a charter flight went to fricken Akron today and the flight departure time out of Akron back to Indy was pushed back around the exact same time LaVall canceled his Dakich appearance because he was meeting with a recruit.

    But it appears it was indeed just that. If so, what an incredible coincidence.  I feel stupid.

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  342. I don't know what to believe. I am in denial that it was coincidence a charter flight went to fricken Akron today and the flight departure time out of Akron back to Indy was pushed back around the exact same time LaVall canceled his Dakich appearance because he was meeting with a recruit.

    But it appears it was indeed just that. If so, what an incredible coincidence.  I feel stupid.

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    If Kampen and LaVall were in FL, any chance Crone was in OH with Young?

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  343. I’m following the updates/speculations vis-á-vis Kyle as closely as the rest of you folks—multiple times within the hour. Aside from the basketball considerations, I’ve started to ask myself, “Why would Kyle want to come to Butler?” And I started to answer this for myself. Maybe my answers mirror many of yours. (Sorry for the ruminations’ length. But I can assure you that you won’t get bogged down in the writing.)

    Based on the article I read a while back about the Young family, I’m very appreciative of how thoughtfully Kyle & his clan have been over the past 2+ weeks. I believe they’ll have big influence on his decision—maybe even more than any “dot the ‘I’” desires.

    I hope he chooses BU. He’ll have a great time if he does. All of the basketball arguments supporting a Bulldog career have been nicely presented throughout this thread.

    However, most of the alums commenting herein (& many folks just reading) know something that Kyle doesn’t: "Butler being unique" is NOT hyperbole. It’s really a special kind of place. It isn’t for everyone. But, within its niche, Butler really is special.

    There are great public & private institutions. Anyone looking for the opportunities that a state school provides (more people, bigger endowments, larger alum networks, bigger class sizes, 24/7 access to some kind of “diversion” on campus), the name recognition of an Ivy League school or something else should go for it.

    Other than a state school's “largeness” & an Ivy League school's historical prestige, Butler/Indianapolis have most of the above aspects. It's its own thing. Those of us who’ve graduated from BU & enjoyed our experience recognize the institution’s unique qualities—its tangible & intangible aspects. Butler also tends to draw folks who share these considerations.

    We who know of the school in this way hope that Kyle may also have such a unique experience beyond the basketball court. (We’re also aware that he’ll have a kick-ass time on the court, too.)

    Should #35 search elsewhere for these wonderful intangible & tangible opportunities, I truly wish Kyle well. More than this, I hope that he comes to know what many of us have already learned: Butler’s a pretty cool & rarified place. I hope he has a chance to find out how right we all are about this.

  344. This is one of those situations that I think the NCAA's rules are archaic and stupid. OK, they are usually stupid most of the time.

    In situations like this the original school (Butler) should have the option of "give us a try" where the recruit honors his commitment for one year and if at the end of the year, the player wants to leave they are given a non-conditional release and are eligible immediately.

    Obviously the potential for abuse exists, but I think if you simply grant them in cases of coach change like this, it would help the player and not penalize him for honoring a commitment.

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  345. Why is Vall not making an in person visit with Young right away?  Shouldn't he be the top priority?

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    His top priority is to meet with ALL players and recruits.  Oh, and assemble a staff.  For a guy that got introduced about 30 hours ago, I think he is killing it!  There could be scheduling issues on KYs end as well and they agreed on Sunday or something.  At this point all we can assume is that they have talked and no one has left yet…..im sure KY knows when they're meeting.

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  346. I was looking through flights today between Indy & Ft Lauderdale… there were only a couple commercial flights, didn't see any charters/private.

    Got me thinking. What if LaVall met with Kamar first, then just flew down to Florida afterwards since he was close?

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  347. I was looking through flights today between Indy & Ft Lauderdale… there were only a couple commercial flights, didn't see any charters/private.

    Got me thinking. What if LaVall met with Kamar first, then just flew down to Florida afterwards since he was close?

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    Was wondering the same.  And actually considered if maybe he had to fly out of Milwaukee.  I mean, he hasn't had time to move yet.

  348. I believe that both Emerson and Brandon will be on staff.  Most likely in different roles. 

    I asked earlier why anyone thought that flight was used by BU?  My understanding is that recruiting flights are typically through a program supporter/private plane.

  349. My understanding is that recruiting flights are typically through a program supporter/private plane.

    I think that's right.  the flight to Akron and back today was a private plane.

    Edit: well, by private, I mean non-commercial.

  350. It depends. If they can get a private plane, they do it that way. May be a bad time to say it, but at a place like OSU, you can always get one. A recruiting trip to chicago faster is faster from osu campus than from butler's campus.

    Other times, it will be done via commercial flights. It costs 5-$7,000 per hour to charter a flight. You have to have one hell of a budget to do that all the time if you aren't given someone else's plane for use.

    Truly "private" planes are also way nicer than charter planes. But even after flying charter flights, you'll never want to do commercial again.

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  351. The article on the internet about KY"s decision said he would make one in 3-4 days. I think that was 2 days ago. But if he has not met with Lavall face to face and if it does not happen this weekend then what? Seems like the decision could come right after that meeting if they have it.

    Today is the 16th and they report on the 24th.

  352. I can report that Lavall's meeting with KY and family went extremely well. Very tough decision now

    Flight back to Indy tomorrow is to either ask for release of LOI or reaffirm commitment with photo op

    I am not going to lie. When I read this I was feeling confident. Maybe he was talking about the couple phone conversations. Now I am a little less confident.

  353. If they have to report next weekend, I'd imagine he'll want to make a decision by the end of this weekend to know if he is or isn't going to need to plan a move next Fri or Sat.  So, hopefully Vall can get him on the phone today and tomorrow and close it in person Sunday.

  354. If LaVall can sew him up on a home visit then by all means do it.  IF there's any hesitation and you can get Kyle and his family to go for it, bring him on campus Sunday to hang with the players (another BB camp starts Monday) and staff.  Remind him why he chose Butler beyond Holt and Pedon.  We need to our maximize our position right now as the ONLY program that can talk/visit with him directly.

  355. If LaVall can sew him up on a home visit then by all means do it.  IF there's any hesitation and you can get Kyle and his family to go for it, bring him on campus Sunday to hang with the players (another BB camp starts Monday) and staff.  Remind him why he chose Butler beyond Holt and Pedon.  We need to our maximize our position right now as the ONLY program that can talk/visit with him directly.

    Would be nice to see a pic of Young and Lavall when they meet with a handshake. One can dream right?

    I absolutely agree that Lavall does have to maximize that they are the only ones who can talk directly. agree

  356. Do we know KY is in ohio?

    It's the last week before he was to start college, so it's possible he's on a family vacation in Florida and LJ met with him and Butler on the same trip.

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  357. Do we know KY is in ohio?

    It's the last week before he was to start college, so it's possible he's on a family vacation in Florida and LJ met with him and Butler on the same trip.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Interesting idea, and totally possible

  358. Hasn't it already been confirmed that he did not meet with KY in person and has only had phone conversations?

    That's what I come up with. They said in tweets Lavall and KY are trying to set up a time to meet.

  359. Well, he got a tattoo this week and the artist is in Ohio, so it's not hard to imagine that he's still in Ohio.

    Something to think about, if Sunday is the day that they agreed to meet, it's Father's day and Kyle's first one since his Dad died. I'm sure that's emotionally significant. Also, could be a reason that they are having trouble getting a firm date to meet set up. If we make it through this weekend without news of backing out, my confidence level will go way up.

  360. Well, he got a tattoo this week and the artist is in Ohio, so it's not hard to imagine that he's still in Ohio.

    Something to think about, if Sunday is the day that they agreed to meet, it's Father's day and Kyle's first one since his Dad died. I'm sure that's emotionally significant. Also, could be a reason that they are having trouble getting a firm date to meet set up. If we make it through this weekend without news of backing out, my confidence level will go way up.

    Evans just tweeted that LaVall is meeting with Thompson Sunday so I'm not sure anyone really know when they are meeting except CD on Saturday

  361. Also, since we all get our news from Twitter, Lavall and Joe Gentry both started following Kyle on Twitter in the last 24 hours.

    Related, Lavall has started following the usual suspects including Kamar, Butler and Cooper. Has not followed CD or Aaron Johnson yet. Perhaps he's following the commits as they re-up their commitment in person?

  362. Everything I've heard is that Young/Lavall had a great convo/meeting though everything has gone mum.

    Also, reading some of the OSU message boards they are making a big deal out of the suspension of Funderburk by Holtmann as a signal to Young to come to OSU. Both play the same position and Funderburk was coming off a redshirt year.

    To be fair though Funderburk was viewed as a loyal Thad guy and a bit of a malcontent.

    Make of it what you will

  363. To be fair though Funderburk was viewed as a loyal Thad guy and a bit of a malcontent.

    Make of it what you will

    So was his old man. Sounds like "The Ohio State Way" is off to a rocky start.

  364. Everything I've heard is that Young/Lavall had a great convo/meeting though everything has gone mum.

    Also, reading some of the OSU message boards they are making a big deal out of the suspension of Funderburk by Holtmann as a signal to Young to come to OSU. Both play the same position and Funderburk was coming off a redshirt year.

    To be fair though Funderburk was viewed as a loyal Thad guy and a bit of a malcontent.

    Make of it what you will

    So on the OSU message boards, they think that even tough there are scholarships available, that the suspension was to open up room for Young to come in since they play the same position.  Sounds like a very loyal fanbase and possibly culture if they think that suspending a player to make room for a recruit from another school makes sense…… guess that kid did nothing wrong except play the 4.  Expendable, sends a great message dont you think.

  365. Since we don't know the situation, I would guess uninformed fans. After all basketball is only a recreational activity at OSU.

    Totally agree, just interesting that on a message board that is the thought process.   I'm sure there is a legit reason he was suspended and not to open a spot in good faith for Young.  Just a character piece about the OSU fan.

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  366. Don't know if this is an actual strategy by LaVall, but I could see some benefit to lining up your out of state incoming guys, have them go public with their affirmation and THEN calling on David and Young to join their classmates.  Plus, the longer you wait to meet them in person, the longer it would take for them to back out of the NLI if they want (remember no other program can contact them now).  Gives LaVall multiple opportunities to remind them why they chose BU to begin with.

  367. Don't know if this is an actual strategy by LaVall, but I could see some benefit to lining up your out of state incoming guys, have them go public with their affirmation and THEN calling on David and Young to join their classmates.  Plus, the longer you wait to meet them in person, the longer it would take for them to back out of the NLI if they want (remember no other program can contact them now).  Gives LaVall multiple opportunities to remind them why they chose BU to begin with.

    I was thinking that too, talking on the phone with them but hitting them in person last maximizes the exclusive contact time and gives the guys something to think about before they actually meet.  And I'm sure KY and CD are paying attention to the other guys' positive responses on social media.

  368. Just read through a recruitment thread on the Buckeye basketball Scout forum and I'm shocked at the relative apathy of getting Young. And I'm not meaning their apathy towards basketball in general – they're not sure he really adds much/is good enough.

    Among other quotes, some notables:

    "The highlights tell me Young is a role player that shouldn't become a bona-fide starter at the B1G contender"

    "For the record, I'm against kyle young coming here. Go after the bigger fish and better prospects and begin with 2018"

    They seem more interested in Aaron Thompson than Young (though I do think on this board we seem to underrate Thompson).

    I know Young isn't Michael Porter, but geez. Unless you're one of the untouchables (the true blue bloods) , you're insane to think you should reject any top 80 player with a good head on his shoulders. A team full of top 80 guys can lead to titles. Not to mention that OSU roster is just a pile of garbage right now.

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  369. Just read through a recruitment thread on the Buckeye basketball Scout forum and I'm shocked at the relative apathy of getting Young. And I'm not meaning their apathy towards basketball in general – they're not sure he really adds much/is good enough.

    Among other quotes, some notables:

    "The highlights tell me Young is a role player that shouldn't become a bona-fide starter at the B1G contender"

    "For the record, I'm against kyle young coming here. Go after the bigger fish and better prospects and begin with 2018"

    They seem more interested in Aaron Thompson than Young (though I do think on this board we seem to underrate Thompson).

    I know Young isn't Michael Porter, but geez. Unless you're one of the untouchables (the true blue bloods) , you're insane to think you should reject any top 80 player with a good head on his shoulders. A team full of top 80 guys can lead to titles. Not to mention that OSU roster is just a pile of garbage right now.

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    Sounds like they are undervaluing him based on the fact he didn't choose OSU the first time around. 🙄

  370. Just read through a recruitment thread on the Buckeye basketball Scout forum and I'm shocked at the relative apathy of getting Young. And I'm not meaning their apathy towards basketball in general – they're not sure he really adds much/is good enough.

    Among other quotes, some notables:

    "The highlights tell me Young is a role player that shouldn't become a bona-fide starter at the B1G contender"

    "For the record, I'm against kyle young coming here. Go after the bigger fish and better prospects and begin with 2018"

    They seem more interested in Aaron Thompson than Young (though I do think on this board we seem to underrate Thompson).

    I know Young isn't Michael Porter, but geez. Unless you're one of the untouchables (the true blue bloods) , you're insane to think you should reject any top 80 player with a good head on his shoulders. A team full of top 80 guys can lead to titles. Not to mention that OSU roster is just a pile of garbage right now.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    Ohio St. Has a bad team right now. Definitely bottom of Big 10.  Probably 10 to 12 overall.  They have 9 scholarship players.  No matter what they will not be good next year.  It's going to take them 2 years to be respectable and have a shot at the tournament.   Any top 100 guy they can get is HUGE.  They have no idea what They are saying. 

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  371. Obviously none of us are geniuses, but, at least we follow enough to know young is a big get and we want him badly to stay. For them to have apathy towards it…that just makes 0.0 sense. Glad I got you knuckleheads around who know a thing about bball.

  372. Just read through a recruitment thread on the Buckeye basketball Scout forum and I'm shocked at the relative apathy of getting Young. And I'm not meaning their apathy towards basketball in general – they're not sure he really adds much/is good enough.

    Among other quotes, some notables:

    "The highlights tell me Young is a role player that shouldn't become a bona-fide starter at the B1G contender"

    "For the record, I'm against kyle young coming here. Go after the bigger fish and better prospects and begin with 2018"

    They seem more interested in Aaron Thompson than Young (though I do think on this board we seem to underrate Thompson).

    I know Young isn't Michael Porter, but geez. Unless you're one of the untouchables (the true blue bloods) , you're insane to think you should reject any top 80 player with a good head on his shoulders. A team full of top 80 guys can lead to titles. Not to mention that OSU roster is just a pile of garbage right now.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    This is THE Ohio State after all.  No other school has more arrogant fans than THE Ohio State.

  373. Wishing Mike Schrage was a bit less enthusiastic on twitter:(

    "The coaching staff stays together. Don't fix what ain't broke. Love working with these guys. @OhioStateHoops #Buckeyes"

  374. Obviously none of us are geniuses, but, at least we follow enough to know young is a big get and we want him badly to stay. For them to have apathy towards it…that just makes 0.0 sense. Glad I got you knuckleheads around who know a thing about bball.

    Which would make it suck even more if they got him

  375. Says it could be tomorrow, but not definitive in the article.  Smart by LaVall to keep the dialogue open as long as he can.  It's not a mystery where he'll go if he decides to not come to Butler.

  376. Keep building that relationship. He's met with the other 4, hopefully LJ can let Young know the other 4 are all on board yet. The longer this drags on, I feel our chances increase, but also feel that KY is just sitting in the shadows getting closer to a decision. I'm thinking that LJ is going to know KY's decision either way by the end of their meeting.

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  377. Wonder if CD reaffirming his commitment will have any play with LJ's meeting with KY this week?

    Considering he'd be a major asset in the best class we've ever recruited, KY has quite a bit of the info he needs to make his decision. CD is a stud. That's a huge win for us.

  378. Considering he'd be a major asset in the best class we've ever recruited, KY has quite a bit of the info he needs to make his decision. CD is a stud. That's a huge win for us.

    You are correct sir, CD is a stud, even if we lose, and I'm now very much hopeful KY stays on board, but keeping those 4 is still a really solid class for us that any previous year we'd all be jumping for joy.  It's kind of like we hit a home run and we are going for the grand slam or cycle 🙂

  379. Getting this final commitment would speak volumes about LJ as the new coach, but it also says Butler University sells itself. While KY may understandably feel some apprehension about his decision, at this time one would have to think CH sold not only himself and the program but school as well. He did recruit "Butler guys".

  380. Friend of mine who works for one of the non-basketball athletics programs at Butler swears to me the LaVall-KY visit is happening today.  Stay tuned.

  381. While KY may understandably feel some apprehension about his decision, at this time one would have to think CH sold not only himself and the program but school as well. He did recruit "Butler guys".

    Maybe it will help KY realize the difference in values if he believes in the Butler Way. LaVall is truly a Butler guy. I can't wait to cheer him on this fall.

    Holt left GW for more money/opportunity at Butler. Now he's left BU for more money/opportunity at OSU. What's next?

    Might sting a bit, but the reality appears that Holt is all about Holt.

  382. Friend of mine who works for one of the non-basketball athletics programs at Butler swears to me the LaVall-KY visit is happening today.  Stay tuned.

    Can we trust this without data from all of the charter flights from Indy to Akron for the next 72 hrs? lol

  383. Can we trust this without data from all of the charter flights from Indy to Akron for the next 72 hrs? lol

    hahaha….fair.  I'm doing my best to stay off flightaware.com 🙁

    But yes, I do trust her.

  384. Holt left GW for more money/opportunity at Butler. Now he's left BU for more money/opportunity at OSU. What's next?

    Might sting a bit, but the reality appears that Holt is all about Holt.

    This stuff wears me out.  I'm curious if you have a family/responsibilities.  No father that I know is more worried about somebody else's child's present more than his own child's future.  Let me know when you turn down doing effectively the same job for significantly more money with 8 years of job security.

  385. Maybe it will help KY realize the difference in values if he believes in the Butler Way. LaVall is truly a Butler guy. I can't wait to cheer him on this fall.

    Holt left GW for more money/opportunity at Butler. Now he's left BU for more money/opportunity at OSU. What's next?

    Might sting a bit, but the reality appears that Holt is all about Holt.

    I dislike holtmann just as much as others but c'mon. He had opportunities to leave after every season. He had zero ties to butler at the time he was hired. Him staying forever was not reality. He knew what he was doing when he came to Butler and played everyone while he was here.  Coach schrage liked the tweets regarding CD staying at butler. The timing and actions of CH sucks a lot however he did do some good while here.

    If LJ is successful,  which I expect him to be, then I believe we have more stability with him moreso than with Holtmann  (meaning he won't chase every job lead) but I would expect him to consider Michigan if they were to call.

    Let's hope we hear some great news from the KY camp today!

  386. This stuff wears me out.  I'm curious if you have a family/responsibilities.  No father that I know is more worried about somebody else's child's present more than his own child's future.  Let me know when you turn down doing effectively the same job for significantly more money with 8 years of job security.

    Todd Lickliter.

  387. Other than leave, not sure CH did anything negative in his time at BU. While I will never be an OSU fan, I find it difficult to feel any malice toward him or the other staff for doing what any of us would do given the same situation and opportunity. Granted the timing was poor but at his age he did what was best for his family's financial security. BG and Lick did the same except they were Butler alumni. Now let's secure KY !

  388. Todd Lickliter.

    Bet Todd wished he had stayed at Butler. None of us have had to choose between making $1 million + or 3 million a year and deciding which would be best for our family security.

  389. First of all, the rest of the class is still a good class. We will be fine. Great on every kid that actually honored his commitment to Butler.

    Now that I've been positive, fuck Young. I really hope we get a chance, somehow, to play them and Wideman or Martin go straight hood on him, planting him into the wood as hard as possible. Suck it Young, your team will suck, ours will be good. You, son, just made a horrible decision. Enjoy sucking and playing for a reckless horse crap coach.

  390. Man, that stings.

    Don't disparage Young.  He was put in a terribly tough spot and went with home/the relationships he knew.  This isn't on him even a little bit.

  391. I understand the situation he was in and I don't fault him at all for the decision. If he feels that's what's best for him and he wants to continue his basketball career at OSU, I don't think any of us can hold that against him.

    But with that said, he passed on the opportunity to be a 4 year starter at a basketball first school that will be significantly more successful than OSU over the next 2 years and hopefully the next 4 years. Just saying, best of luck to him, Go Dawgs.

  392. Not mad at Young at all, he made what he thought was the best decision for him.

    And if anyone needs any solace after losing our highest rated recruit, just know that Chris Holtmann really wanted Butler to keep all of its recruiting class.

  393. Holtmann said on multiple occassions that he would do all he could to make the transition smooth for Butler.  Guess we shouldn't be surprised that he only meant it as long as it didn't benefit him.  I don't have any hate for Young, but I would like for Butler to get the opportunity to play Ohio State this season just so we can hopefully have a cathartic experience.

  394. I understand the situation he was in and I don't fault him at all for the decision. If he feels that's what's best for him and he wants to continue his basketball career at OSU, I don't think any of us can hold that against him.

    But with that said, he passed on the opportunity to be a 4 year starter at a basketball first school that will be significantly more successful than OSU over the next 2 years and hopefully the next 4 years. Just saying, best of luck to him, Go Dawgs.

    well put nate dawg.

    most of my BU pledge class came from Upper Arlington or Cincinnati, were baseball players, and pledged allegiance to OSU.  Living in LA I worked for an Ohio company for 7 years requiring flights to Columbus once a quarter. 

    All I can say is my personal experience with people from Ohio have one thing in common… some weird lustful relationship with the Buckeyes…even in Texas and here in California you get a mix.  Not Ohio.  Maybe its football, maybe its the Browns, I don't know.

    I wish the kid well and agree with Willis… have fun sucking for the next few years, we will be good.

  395. Danville, my man….I think it's time to retire from the percentage/prediction business 🙂 You're like me with the cubs, when they are scuffling, I bet heavily against them knowing I'm a curse and they will then win. So, unless it's a negative prediction about Butler, keep to yourself homie.:razz:

  396. Also wondering, if LaVall truly did meet with Kyle Young today, Kyle may have had his mind set up already, meaning the meeting meant nothing.

    He has a professionally made graphic design of him in an OSU jersey as a profile pic, something that probably took more than an hour to make…

  397. First of all, the rest of the class is still a good class. We will be fine. Great on every kid that actually honored his commitment to Butler.

    Now that I've been positive, **** Young. I really hope we get a chance, somehow, to play them and Wideman or Martin go straight hood on him, planting him into the wood as hard as possible. Suck it Young, your team will suck, ours will be good. You, son, just made a horrible decision. Enjoy sucking and playing for a reckless horse crap coach.

    I don't even have to get into the racist undertones of this post to say that you are an embarrassment to humans everywhere.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

  398. I don't even have to get into the racist undertones of this post to say that you are an embarrassment to humans everywhere.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

    Wow wow wow…easy Tex. I think you took that the wrong way. I say "hood" in my regular vocabulary from where I live because everything and everyone is "hood" and it's just a word. It means "hard" down here. It doesn't mean white or black or anything like that, it means "hard" or "tough" even. And I think we all know, both those kids are tougher than it gets and will not hesitate to get into it. That had nothing to do with being black.

    Damn, this PC community we live in anymore is something else. And by the way, I live in a 37% white community…where would being racist do me any good in real life or on a board? I am a billion times less racist than most midwestern and northeast types…I can promise that.

  399. First of all, Holt pulled one over on all of us. He is unquestionably now an enormous douche and on par with the other slimey coaches we despise. Pretty simple, if it is important to keep Butler together, you refuse to accept Young.

    As for the kid gloves for Young, I don't really get it. He is an adult and a man. His word is now s*it. Not sure many things worse as a man than for people to consider your word s*it.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

  400. Wow wow wow…easy Tex. I think you took that the wrong way. I say "hood" in my regular vocabulary from where I live because everything and everyone is "hood" and it's just a word. It means "hard" down here. It doesn't mean white or black or anything like that, it means "hard" or "tough" even. And I think we all know, both those kids are tougher than it gets and will not hesitate to get into it. That had nothing to do with being black.

    Damn, this PC community we live in anymore is something else. And by the way, I live in a 37% white community…where would being racist do me any good in real life or on a board? I am a billion times less racist than most midwestern and northeast types…I can promise that.

    Tell me about how you can't be racist because you have a black best friend too. Your defense of your use of the word "hood" shows you know you were wrong. If you take that out there are still racist undertones. Take that stuff the hell outta here. It has no place here.

    I'm not into PC culture, I'm into not calling for our players to attack those on other teams.

    You're a coward for even posting that. But don't worry Willis, it's actually a compliment up here.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

  401. Tell me about how you can't be racist because you have a black best friend too. Your defense of your use of the word "hood" shows you know you were wrong. If you take that out there are still racist undertones. Take that stuff the hell outta here. It has no place here.

    I'm not into PC culture, I'm into not calling for our players to attack those on other teams.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

    I actually would much prefer you go away, and I rarely ever even read Willis' posts.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

  402. "We are very excited to add Kyle to the 2017 class, his versatility, motor and work ethic make him a great addition to our program.  We really look forward to getting him on campus to join his teammates."  Chris Holtmann on adding Kyle Young.

  403. The kid lost his dad last year and it's obvious he male bonded with Pedon and Holtmann.  That's OK and understandable.  Hopefully it works out for him and Holtmann stays all four years.  Seems he chose coaches versus schools.  Not much LaVall could do about that.  Possible LJ never met with KY in person. Wish we could play OSU this season.

  404. Don't blame Young one bit.  He's following the coaches he formed a relationship with and staying in state.  No shame in that. 

    I could be way off, but I have a sneaky suspicion that keeping Thompson is the most important aspect of this process.  With he and Kamar in the backcourt, we have so much defensive protection.  Like Jared says, we might need to get a little unconventional at the 4 (Kelan small lineup or Wideman big lineup) but that is okay.  Just need to find a big in 2018.  This of course is not even counting CD who could be the biggest star of them all.  Great stuff again Vall.

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  405. Well this has turned to name calling I see. I'm a racist coward. Sweet. Never thought I'd reach those heights.

    Keep it focused…we lost a big time player, we're all a little raw, but it will be ok. We will be ok. Screw Holt and Young, let them be mediocre while we enjoy a successful season with a new and exciting Head Coach. Eyes on the prize.

  406. I really hope Butler files a tampering charge on Holt and OSU. Don't blame the kid, don't wish him ill will, he'll get plenty of that losing for the next four years.

    This is how I imagine things went.

    Pedon to KY's coach: Yo, we'd love to have KY join us.

    KY's coach: He's a bit concerned about the redshirt freshman ahead of him on the depth chart.

    CH: I know I'm new here and I don't even know anyone's name, but this Funderdork kid is suspended.

    KY: OSU it is.

    I'm only maybe 30% kidding. CH and staff will fit in well with the slime politics of Big time basketball. We shouldn't be surprised.

    I'm much more excited about the other four that will be wearing the Butler blue

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  407. "We are very excited to add Kyle to the 2017 class, his versatility, motor and work ethic make him a great addition to our program.  We really look forward to getting him on campus to join his teammates."  Chris Holtmann on adding Kyle Young.

    Chris Holtmann is a dirty piece of scum.

  408. PREDICTION: Young will transfer out of THE OSU within 2 years. Coaches don't have time to play the personal father figure. Once Young's just 1 of many and Holtman's looking past him for other recruits GAME OVER. It will be over quicker if he's a bench player. He chose the wrong school if he was looking for a family environment. He's now blemished and marked not only at THE OSU, in every decision he makes. It also shows BU's class, if you don't want to be part of our family, GO!

  409. Oh well, on to the season!  I am excited for the rest of the class and the team going forward.  As someone else has said, I want players that want to be at Butler… and hoped that Young wanted to be here.  I'd be interested in how the OSU coaching staff explains it… you see, the whole time we were recruiting you to play at Butler we were just feeding you a line to make you want to play there.  Now that we've all received our big payday, just disregard everything we said before… you'll love it here at a super-sized state school!  Just trust us…

    Anyway, if we happen to play OSU during the next four years, I hope we just destroy them on the court.

  410. Just to play a little devil's advocate here. Holtmann already screwed over KY by recruiting him to a school and then leaving before he got there. Do you guys honestly believe he should have screwed him again by saying he doesn't have a place at his new school because he already said he "wants to keep butlers recruiting class together"? That's a little bit much in my opinion.

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  411. Just to play a little devil's advocate here. Holtmann already screwed over KY by recruiting him to a school and then leaving before he got there. Do you guys honestly believe he should have screwed him again by saying he doesn't have a place at his new school because he already said he "wants to keep butlers recruiting class together"? That's a little bit much in my opinion.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    A little much, or a little integrity?

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

  412. Oh well, on to the season!  I am excited for the rest of the class and the team going forward.  As someone else has said, I want players that want to be at Butler… and hoped that Young wanted to be here.  I'd be interested in how the OSU coaching staff explains it… you see, the whole time we were recruiting you to play at Butler we were just feeding you a line to make you want to play there.  Now that we've all received our big payday, just disregard everything we said before… you'll love it here at a super-sized state school!  Just trust us…

    Anyway, if we happen to play OSU during the next four years, I hope we just destroy them on the court.

    I really wanted him here, but if he was on the fence between the 2 schools and it was the coaching staff that tipped the scales to start with then I understand the flip.  Still don't like it.

    Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

  413. Disappointing, but I don't blame Young for going where he wants to go. Butlers going to have to be a little unorthodox at the 4 next year, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    Teach Wideman the 4 and start Brunk at the 5. We've been saying this since getting abused on the glass in the tournanent.

  414. Just to play a little devil's advocate here. Holtmann already screwed over KY by recruiting him to a school and then leaving before he got there. Do you guys honestly believe he should have screwed him again by saying he doesn't have a place at his new school because he already said he "wants to keep butlers recruiting class together"? That's a little bit much in my opinion.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    Here's an idea – just don't say anything.  He knew KY would have a lot of interest in joining him at ***.  A simple, "I'm the coach at ***, so I'm going to do my best to build the team here." would be all it would take and then people can't use his words and tweets against him later.

  415. It almost seemed too good.  Like Butler was a normal BE school.  Not the understudy or plucky underdog.  Holtmann was leading our team into top 25 recruiting pastures and it seemed like we could finally sit down at the big boy table and start showing off without feeling a little inferior.

    I guess not.  Maybe, we'll never be OSU or Xavier or Cinci or (put any school with pomp and circumstance).  We could put up a National Championship and we'd still be Butler.  But, personally, I'm ok with being the #5 seed that is always going to lose.  I'm ok with Hinkle and knowing it might not be an arena sponsored by YUM, but it stands for something.

    And, I for one have NO CLUE if Neese is going to be a player, but I get chills when he Tweets about being with us or against us.  I'll stand for guys like Howard and Chrabascz, and when I need a pick-me up, I listen to Cornette's L'ville rant.  "On paper, people think we're nothing.  They say we don't belong. We watched TV and we barely knew we were even playing today. Nobody gave us a shot. We're still here."

    If we thought the chip was softening, I imagine this year is going to extra for the players and fans.  Butler still has a lot to prove.  And, I guess that will NEVER change!

    Let's get to Spain and start this DAMN SEASON!

  416. after watching the state championship game, I did not see Kyle Young as the number 2 player in the state, I know it is a small sample size and I not saying this because he is now going to OSU, I have felt all along when he was ours that may have been rated a little high, anyone else watch that game? thoughts?

  417. Here's an idea – just don't say anything.  He knew KY would have a lot of interest in joining him at ***.  A simple, "I'm the coach at ***, so I'm going to do my best to build the team here." would be all it would take and then people can't use his words and tweets against him later.

    This is the real take away.

    Holtmann has gotten a LOT of hate from the Butler faithful in a way that no departing coach ever has, and a lot of it could've been avoided by simply keeping his mouth shut.

    The tweet.

    The false salary numbers that were leaked out of his camp to make his departure seem more understandable.

    The statement of how much he wanted to keep the class together.

    All the talk about how much Butler means to him, and how hard it was to leave.

    He created a lot of the animosity the diehards have for him.  If you're going to leave for more money, fine.  But come on man, don't take us for idiots.

  418. A little much, or a little integrity?

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

    If you think this is about integrity you are naive. If you want to be an elite program you gotta start acting like it. Crying foul over a borderline top 100 given the situation is pretty weak. He is gone. Time for us to move on.

  419. M

    This is the real take away.

    Holtmann has gotten a LOT of hate from the Butler faithful in a way that no departing coach ever has, and a lot of it could've been avoided by simply keeping his mouth shut.

    The tweet.

    The false salary numbers that were leaked out of his camp to make his departure seem more understandable.

    The statement of how much he wanted to keep the class together.

    All the talk about how much Butler means to him, and how hard it was to leave.

    He created a lot of the animosity the diehards have for him.  If you're going to leave for more money, fine.  But come on man, don't take us for idiots.

    have you thought that maybe KY said "hey holt without you here I don't want to stay and I'd rather attend the school I dreamed of playing at until they didn't hardly recruit me" is holtmann supposed to say "hey I've got a roster full of shitty players and could use a guy like you, but no you need to stay at butler with an unproven coach because that's "the butler" way"

    Get over yourselves. Butler is not as unique and sacred at we make it out to be. Sound like a bunch of IU games acting like that.

  420. M

    have you thought that maybe KY said "hey holt without you here I don't want to stay and I'd rather attend the school I dreamed of playing at until they didn't hardly recruit me" is holtmann supposed to say "hey I've got a roster full of ****ty players and could use a guy like you, but no you need to stay at butler with an unproven coach because that's "the butler" way"

    Get over yourselves. Butler is not as unique and sacred at we make it out to be. Sound like a bunch of IU games acting like that.

    The point is, Holtmann has gone out of his way to look like a hypocrite.  He keeps his mouth shut about the job and the Butler situation once he takes the job, and the anger/bitterness isn't nearly where it is right now.  It's the same thing as Paul George saying the goal is to win a championship in Indiana and then turning around and leaking that he's leaving for the Lakers next year 3 days later.  Be quiet and stop trying to sound like the good guy only to turn around and disappoint everyone.

  421. M

    have you thought that maybe KY said "hey holt without you here I don't want to stay and I'd rather attend the school I dreamed of playing at until they didn't hardly recruit me" is holtmann supposed to say "hey I've got a roster full of ****ty players and could use a guy like you, but no you need to stay at butler with an unproven coach because that's "the butler" way"

    Get over yourselves. Butler is not as unique and sacred at we make it out to be. Sound like a bunch of IU games acting like that.

    No, but that's Hinkle's point.  The whole thing, while disappointing to us, would be pretty understandable looking through both KYs eyes and CHs, but it's what's happened after CHs comments that has created most of the animosity.  CH should have just moved on and shut up.

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  422. M

    have you thought that maybe KY said "hey holt without you here I don't want to stay and I'd rather attend the school I dreamed of playing at until they didn't hardly recruit me" is holtmann supposed to say "hey I've got a roster full of ****ty players and could use a guy like you, but no you need to stay at butler with an unproven coach because that's "the butler" way"

    Get over yourselves. Butler is not as unique and sacred at we make it out to be. Sound like a bunch of IU games acting like that.

    Yeah, pal, you missed the point.

  423. Been waiting for the dust to settle. So now we know who the bulldogs are and who the buckeyes are. I'm giving a standing O for this team when they take the floor. You don't want to be a Bulldog… fine by me. You made the choice that is right for you. See ya.

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  424. I hope Holtmann gives credit to Brandon Miller for dragging him out of North Carolina, if it weren't for Miller he would still be in Boiling Springs, NC making

    a couple hundred thousand dollars coaching in a low D1 conference.

  425. If you think this is about integrity you are naive. If you want to be an elite program you gotta start acting like it. Crying foul over a borderline top 100 given the situation is pretty weak. He is gone. Time for us to move on.

    I'm naive for thinking that Holtmann is a prick and has no integrity? Interesting theory.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

  426. Oh well, on to the season!  I am excited for the rest of the class and the team going forward.  As someone else has said, I want players that want to be at Butler… and hoped that Young wanted to be here.  I'd be interested in how the OSU coaching staff explains it… you see, the whole time we were recruiting you to play at Butler we were just feeding you a line to make you want to play there.  Now that we've all received our big payday, just disregard everything we said before… you'll love it here at a super-sized state school!  Just trust us…

    Anyway, if we happen to play OSU during the next four years, I hope we just destroy them on the court.

    It's almost as if recruits select programs based on the coaching staff more than the location, arena, and culture, huh?

    His twitter post said it all — "my bond with [Holtmann and Pedon] and the rest of the ohio state coaching staff is one that goes far beyond the basketball court, and my family feels the same way." He was never coming to Butler after Holtmann left.

    Those of you denigrating an 18 year old kid for not picking your school have the emotional intelligence of a child.

  427. Pretty sure we all *knew* it was just the waiting for it to be official. Bigger bags of cash at OSU…he was never coming here once Holtmann left for the money. Young left for the money too.

  428. This is the real take away.

    Holtmann has gotten a LOT of hate from the Butler faithful in a way that no departing coach ever has, and a lot of it could've been avoided by simply keeping his mouth shut.

    The tweet.

    The false salary numbers that were leaked out of his camp to make his departure seem more understandable.

    The statement of how much he wanted to keep the class together.

    All the talk about how much Butler means to him, and how hard it was to leave.

    He created a lot of the animosity the diehards have for him.  If you're going to leave for more money, fine.  But come on man, don't take us for idiots.

    If Holtmann had done the exact same things he's done, but never said a thing, I'd totally get it and totally support it. The way he's done it is total hypocrisy.

    People don't like car salesman for being dishonest. Holtmann has acted like a car salesman, making statements and then demonstrating actions that are totally inconsistent with his statements. I didn't think I'd be pissed off by him taking a better job, but I didn't see him acting like a sleezeball while doing it.

    Edit***after reading the rest of the posts I see I'm adding absolutely nothing new, but hey we're mostly all on the same page. That's noteworthy!

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  429. Holtmann is gone, Pedon is gone, Schrage is gone, Johnson is gone. and Young is gone. lets move on they have.  Forget about OSU Butler found out what the Big 10

    has known for years.  Butler fans should be concentrating on their program and looking forward to this season and future seasons.  Go Dawgs!

  430. Pretty sure we all *knew* it was just the waiting for it to be official. Bigger bags of cash at OSU…he was never coming here once Holtmann left for the money. Young left for the money too.

    Kyle Macy once told me that the reason he left Purdue for Kentucky was because at Purdue you get a $20 handshake and at Kentucky you get a $100 handshake….sounds very familiar….

  431. http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2017/06/20/doyel-kyle-young-chooses-ohio-state-not-butler-and-thats-ok/411155001/

    Lost some respect for Gregg Doyel.

    Agreed.  And the comment at the end that everything has been completely above board and classy at the end is total bs.  I have no problem with Young asking it off his commitment under the circumstances.  I have a huge problem with him ending up at Ohio State.

    This article is crap.  The thing I took away from it is that Notre Dame football isn't afraid of bad publicity.

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  432. http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/columnists/gregg-doyel/2017/06/20/doyel-kyle-young-chooses-ohio-state-not-butler-and-thats-ok/411155001/

    Lost some respect for Gregg Doyel.

    I've lost respect for most people on this forum. Taking it out on a kid and coach for making the best decisions for them? Great look for Butler basketball. Boohoo, it's freaking college basketball. Get over it.

    Sure, Holtmann took the job for a bigger budget and more money, but he was never a Butler guy coming in, and this outcome was always likely. And Young chose the coaches he bonded with, to go to school an hour from his newly widowed mother. And people are angry at this 18 year old? That's disgusting.

    And now we sit here blaming the coaching for "tampering," when a month ago everyone would have sworn this staff would NEVER do that. There's no evidence of tampering. And the people that matter to Butler basketball aren't accusing them of that.

    So move on, we'll be fine. The incoming class is still great, and we have a coach who can recruit. I know I'll still be rooting against OSU, if only for them stealing our coach and doing it in a shit*y manner/time. But we've got the better coach for the long haul.

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  433. Congratulations to KY! Seriously, one day prior to making this decision he was spending another father's day without his dad. To say this is a momentous time in his life is an understatement and I hope he excels at OSU. He's been through a long and tormented recruiting process and deserves an opportunity to do well. If Holtmann and the staff do nothing else, I hope they bring out the best in KY as a student and athlete.

    I am also glad that Barry and Butler did not get in the way with this. I think we should all take a minute to realise that KY's situation is a product of our relatively new position within the NCAA and all that comes with it. One positive of our days in the Horizon and MCC meant we were rarely exposed to this part of the system. Now we are fully immersed; this and possibly worse is going to happen in the future. We can't escape that because it comes with the Big East territory. However, we can choose a different way to react to these setbacks than more prominent programmes (I'm looking at you right now Louisville) and their fan bases might do. That will have to be what always separates us from the pack.

    See ya over at the 'Now we know what's what' thread.

  434. Food for thought: if Young leaving to join Holtmann didn't reek, would there be a reason at all to right an article about it?

    Also, Doyel's statement that Young and Holtmann hadn't spoken is in line with former President Clinton trying to wordsmith us with his definition of "sexual relations." Hey Publicist Doyel, his high school coach said last week he had spoken with OSU's staff multiple times since they left Butler, but I'm sure that never made it back to Kyle. [emoji107]

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  435. I am going to re-route this thread a bit and put a positive spin on it.

    Someone made mention to the fact that KY must've known he was going to OSU for at least a day given the pic he posted on his Twitter account.

    Given that he was the last recruit to sign, and it seemed there was no real sign of LaVall going to see him, my guess is KY told LJ when he reached out last week of his wishes to transfer.

    LJ tries to convince him otherwise and KY is pretty steadfast on his new decision.  LJ asks him to keep it quiet until he has time to get the rest of the class in the fold so as not to tip dominoes in an opposite direction.

    KY keeps quiet until after it is official that the other four are honoring their commitments.  I am just trying to put a positive spin on this for KY to lessen some of the animosity toward an 18YO  kid (and to further see LJ's value as a tactical recruiter).

    It's possible, right?

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  436. Someone made mention to the fact that KY must've known he was going to OSU for at least a day given the pic he posted on his Twitter account.

    I'm sure he knew that he was going to OSU the day Holtmann took the job.

  437. Can we please move on?

    Why? It's not over.  They have, with very very few exceptions, now offered every 2018 recruit that they've developed a relationship with on Butler's dime. This is a big deal.  As I mentioned previously in another thread, we may not feel the full reverberations of the fallout for another 2-3 years. It is shaking the foundation of this program. 

    I think LaVall will right the ship, but don't be mistaken, the roster will likely be in turmoil for a few years.

  438. Food for thought: if Young leaving to join Holtmann didn't reek, would there be a reason at all to write an article about it?

    Also, Doyel's statement that Young and Holtmann hadn't spoken is in line with former President Clinton trying to wordsmith us with his definition of "sexual relations." Hey Publicist Doyel, his high school coach said last week he had spoken with OSU's staff multiple times since they left Butler, but I'm sure that never made it back to Kyle. [emoji107]

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

    I think its fully possible they didn't talk after Holtmann resigned, but to insinuate there weren't indirect lines of communication (not that you are) or that they didn't talk before Holt resigned would be playing the same game we are all angry at Holt for.

    I was told on the 10th, the day after Holt left that, that Young had made up his mind to leave, and that it was a done deal. I mean, to my knowledge there is no rule against a coach recruiting a kid to another school as long as contact is permissible, which it would have been at the time.

    Logic dictates there had to be some means of communicating that KY wanted OSU, and OSU wanted KY. Any way in which that conversation could have happened probably would not fit within the honesty/integrity guidelines any of our parents would be proud of seeing each of us follow.

    Ultimately, what KY said about why he wanted to stay with Holt is totally understandable. I also think its a bit idealistic relative to reality, but that's not to say that relationship won't be of comfort. The dynamic just changes once you get into the program.

    For Holtmann, however, basically every Butler related statement he has made, he has directly contradicted with his actions. It all stinks, even if it worked out for everyone, which is what I think what we will see happen.

  439. I like Doyle and college basketball is the area he excels . You may disagree with his opinion. You may think there was tampering by CH. You may hate the parties involved. There may well have been channels of indirect communication. Losing KY is a sore spot but he's gone regardless of why. BU's loss. OSU's gain. I don't like it but we need to remember there is a human side to the story and Doyle merely explained it as he perceived it.

  440. I think its fully possible they didn't talk after Holtmann resigned, but to insinuate there weren't indirect lines of communication (not that you are) or that they didn't talk before Holt resigned would be playing the same game we are all angry at Holt for.

    I was told on the 10th, the day after Holt left that, that Young had made up his mind to leave, and that it was a done deal. I mean, to my knowledge there is no rule against a coach recruiting a kid to another school as long as contact is permissible, which it would have been at the time.

    Logic dictates there had to be some means of communicating that KY wanted OSU, and OSU wanted KY. Any way in which that conversation could have happened probably would not fit within the honesty/integrity guidelines any of our parents would be proud of seeing each of us follow.

    Ultimately, what KY said about why he wanted to stay with Holt is totally understandable. I also think its a bit idealistic relative to reality, but that's not to say that relationship won't be of comfort. The dynamic just changes once you get into the program.

    For Holtmann, however, basically every Butler related statement he has made, he has directly contradicted with his actions. It all stinks, even if it worked out for everyone, which is what I think what we will see happen.

    I think we actually are in agreement that if Doyel was reporting anything objectively in his article (which he's not), then he would have said that although Holtmann may not have directly contacted Young since the initial call (btw, would be interested to see what was actually said in that call), indirect lines of communication were almost assuredly in place and that is reflected in public comments made by Young's high school coach.

    Also, the notion that a regular college student wouldn't feel any negative repercussions for switching to a different college this late in the game is disingenuous.  I had a drop dead date to choose a law school, or else all my scholarship money was gone.  My wife changed colleges 1 semester in, and paid 18K more per year for the rest of her tenure than she would have if she had decided to go to that school originally because they rescinded her academic scholarship money.  Nobody is saying Young shouldn't be able to go to OSU, but the PC notion that "oh, a regular student can go anywhere without any sort of penalty" is a crock.

  441. Why? It's not over.  They have, with very very few exceptions, now offered every 2018 recruit that they've developed a relationship with on Butler's dime. This is a big deal.  As I mentioned previously in another thread, we may not feel the full reverberations of the fallout for another 2-3 years. It is shaking the foundation of this program.

    I think LaVall will right the ship, but don't be mistaken, the roster will likely be in turmoil for a few years.

    To be clear: we should talk about the 2018 class (and competition with OSU and other teams for those kids). However, Young is gone and its better to move on and focus on our upcoming year, 2018 recruits, and beyond

  442. To be clear: we should talk about the 2018 class (and competition with OSU and other teams for those kids). However, Young is gone and its better to move on and focus on our upcoming year, 2018 recruits, and beyond

    I think that Mark Shelvin's point is that even if we "move on" and focus on the 2018 recruits, those 2018 recruits we would be focusing on, we are recruiting them against a guy who was recruiting them now for OSU, but on Butler's watch. What you're suggesting is like having a player leave to go to another school, and now you only play against that school, every game. They are impossible to separate for quite a while. We are trying to get guys who the coach of another school established a relationship with on the pretenses that it was to benefit us, now we get significantly more harmed by it than if he had never recruited those guys to begin with.

  443. I think that Mark Shelvin's point is that even if we "move on" and focus on the 2018 recruits, those 2018 recruits we would be focusing on, we are recruiting them against a guy who was recruiting them now for OSU, but on Butler's watch. What you're suggesting is like having a player leave to go to another school, and now you only play against that school, every game. They are impossible to separate for quite a while. We are trying to get guys who the coach of another school established a relationship with on the pretenses that it was to benefit us, now we get significantly more harmed by it than if he had never recruited those guys to begin with.

    I would add that this Young fiasco is (a) still fresh and (b) the most recent example of what will assuredly be several overly frustrating moments with relation to the former staff in the next 2-3 years.

  444. I think Doyel totally missed the point. I perceive little animus toward KY here. He was presented with a difficult decision and made a reasonable one under the circumstances. I believe most of the vitriol is directed at CH, who was responsible for taking our head coach, all three of our assistant coaches, and our top recruit (as well as the relationships with 2018s and 2019s who were in the pipeline) well after the time when our coaching options would be plentiful and just before the most critical period for 2018 recruiting, all while acting as if he cared a whit about what happened to Butler in the process and hoped to minimize the damage. That aspect wasn't addressed at all by Doyel who. unfortunately, has very obviously become a Holtmann apologist. Of course we knew that CH could move on to another school some day (although we had hoped that we had found our Mark Few), but didn't really see it coming in such a repugnant and hypocritical manner from a man that many of us (perhaps naively) thought had more integrity. Lesson learned.

  445. I think Doyel totally missed the point. I perceive little animus toward KY here. He was presented with a difficult decision and made a reasonable one under the circumstances. I believe most of the vitriol is directed at CH, who was responsible for taking our head coach, all three of our assistant coaches, and our top recruit (as well as the relationships with 2018s and 2019s who were in the pipeline) well after the time when our coaching options would be plentiful and just before the most critical period for 2018 recruiting, all while acting as if he cared a whit about what happened to Butler in the process and hoped to minimize the damage. That aspect wasn't addressed at all by Doyel who. unfortunately, has very obviously become a Holtmann apologist. Of course we knew that CH could move on to another school some day (although we had hoped that we had found our Mark Few), but didn't really see it coming in such a repugnant and hypocritical manner from a man that many of us (perhaps naively) thought had more integrity. Lesson learned.

    Agreed. CH is also a warning that unless some aspects of the basketball program change, we will continue to be a stepping stone. Sure, LaVall (unlike CH) has a Butler connection, but he also has connections elsewhere and at bigger schools with more resources (Michigan). I think LaVall was the best pick and I hope he is Butler's Few. But I think that depends in a lot of ways on decisions the AD makes in the next several years regarding facilities, recruiting budget, and overall investment in the program. Otherwise, I will be on pins and needles every offseason

  446. I thought Brad Stevens was our Mark Few.  Never believed Chris Holtmann was our Mark Few.  You don't leave a HC job at GW to be an assistant at Butler unless you see something big coming down the road.  CH is not the person we all were led to believe he was.  Mark Few is a different kind of guy and unique among HC.  The Big football schools and state schools with huge amounts of money will always be able to buy our coaches.   Look at the past twenty years.   Just something we need to get used to.

  447. I thought Brad Stevens was our Mark Few.  Never believed Chris Holtmann was our Mark Few.  You don't leave a HC job at GW to be an assistant at Butler unless you see something big coming down the road.  CH is not the person we all were led to believe he was.  Mark Few is a different kind of guy and unique among HC.  The Big football schools and state schools with huge amounts of money will always be able to buy our coaches.   Look at the past twenty years.   Just something we need to get used to.

    I agree, and I also never thought Holtmann was our Mark Few. But I wouldn't say "the person we all were led to believe he was," more like the person "we wanted to believe he was."

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  448. I am going to re-route this thread a bit and put a positive spin on it.

    Someone made mention to the fact that KY must've known he was going to OSU for at least a day given the pic he posted on his Twitter account.

    Given that he was the last recruit to sign, and it seemed there was no real sign of LaVall going to see him, my guess is KY told LJ when he reached out last week of his wishes to transfer.

    LJ tries to convince him otherwise and KY is pretty steadfast on his new decision.  LJ asks him to keep it quiet until he has time to get the rest of the class in the fold so as not to tip dominoes in an opposite direction.

    KY keeps quiet until after it is official that the other four are honoring their commitments.  I am just trying to put a positive spin on this for KY to lessen some of the animosity toward an 18YO  kid (and to further see LJ's value as a tactical recruiter).

    It's possible, right?

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

    I was going to write the same thing. An Ohio high school coach and a recruiting service guy both said Young told LJ he was not coming and was asked not to announce until LJ had resecured the other 4 commitments.

  449. Holt and Pedon were like father figures to Kyle.  Even if Holt told him to stay at BU, Kyle likely would have wanted to follow them.  I would have loved to have him, but we need to move past this. 

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  450. I would venture to say Holtmann's first call after he accepted the OSU job was to Kyle Young if not directly then through a back channel. But I also agree Pedon and CH were surrogate fathers to him.  KY chose BU because of them and then chose OSU because of them.  It never was about Butler.

  451. I'm not sure who is expressing animosity towards Young.  I have none, and I haven't seen anyone disparaging him on here.  I feel badly for the kid having been put in this situation.  My issues are 100% with Holtman, the assistant coaches, and the Ohio State athletic director….just shady.

  452. NLI RECRUITING BAN:

    Cease communication: Once a prospective student-athlete signs an NLI, all NLI member institutions and conferences must cease contact with the NLI signee and his or her family members. Any contact in excess of an exchange of a greeting would result in an NLI Recruiting Ban Violation regardless of the conversation. The conversation does not have to result in a recruiting discussion for a violation to occur. It is understandable that a coach from another institution, due to the relationship established during the recruiting process, may want to call or send a note to congratulate the prospective student-athlete for signing his or her NLI. This exchange is permissible but must be timely following the date of signing and must not be more than the congratulatory dialogue.

    Initiated by NLI signee: If communication is initiated by the NLI signee, the coach is obligated to ask if the student has signed an NLI and proceed to inquire with the compliance staff to see if an NLI has been signed. The coach should cease communication until the student’s NLI status is determined by the compliance staff.

  453. Does Doyel have the same agent as CH? The columns he's been writing lately have read more like something a PR firm has put out than a supposedly objective sports columnist.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  454. Let's see if Kyle Young turns out to be a better player than Nolan Berry.  Both were ranked in the same general region on various recruiting services while in HS.  While not the same skill set, they have similarities (besides being white).  There is a weak link in every recruiting class, there are transfers out of every recruiting class.  Give this situation a couple of years and then revisit.

  455. My last comment on this is that Young will likely be a very good player, but I don't think he is a good fit next to Brunk long term.  Need defense and rim protection.  He will be good for OSU though.  Now let's get us Bigham or another long 4 in 2018.

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  456. Holtmann gave Doyel more time than Archie Miller.  Doyel going on  about how good Kyle Young is disturbing considering he never saw Young play, must have been talking

    to Holtmann and Pedon.  How does he possibly know anything about Butler's four other recruits having never seen any them play except for Neese.

  457. This thread is why I don't like to refer to other schools' threads and make fun of them. Great recruits choose to sign to play for coaches, not universities. I thought we would be used to this given our turnover. Now, let's move forward sign some great players and keep LaVall.

  458. I'm not sure who is expressing animosity towards Young.  I have none, and I haven't seen anyone disparaging him on here.  I feel badly for the kid having been put in this situation.  My issues are 100% with Holtman, the assistant coaches, and the Ohio State athletic director….just shady.

    Then you must have some special filter and/or some people blocked.

  459. I would venture to say Holtmann's first call after he accepted the OSU job was to Kyle Young if not directly then through a back channel. But I also agree Pedon and CH were surrogate fathers to him.  KY chose BU because of them and then chose OSU because of them.  It never was about Butler.

    http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/butler_recruit_jumps_ship_with_former_bulldog_coach_20170619&profile=1178

    “That first hour,” Holtmann explained, “we started making calls.”

    Rest assured one of those “calls” was to (Canton) Jackson High School forward Kyle Young, whom Holtmann had already recruited – and signed – at his previous position with Butler.

    In a related story….

    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/college/iowa/iowa-basketball/2014/01/15/todd-lickliter-says-he-regrets-leaving-butler-for-iowa/4496231/

    With that, I'm done with Holt.  LJ is assembling a great staff and we have a lot to look forward to.

  460. http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/butler_recruit_jumps_ship_with_former_bulldog_coach_20170619&profile=1178

    “That first hour,” Holtmann explained, “we started making calls.”

    Rest assured one of those “calls” was to (Canton) Jackson High School forward Kyle Young, whom Holtmann had already recruited – and signed – at his previous position with Butler.

    In a related story….

    http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/college/iowa/iowa-basketball/2014/01/15/todd-lickliter-says-he-regrets-leaving-butler-for-iowa/4496231/

    With that, I'm done with Holt.  LJ is assembling a great staff and we have a lot to look forward to.

    If his first calls were to KY before he was released from the NLI, that's a no-no.

  461. As well as they should. Holtmann too the money grab and the money bag. And he used it. He has many more toys to play with, with a university that looks the other way on aplenty. As much as that screams tampering, the NCAA won't even blink.

  462. The last time Holtmann talked directly to Kyle Young was the morning that he took the Ohio State job. Pedon had contact until LaVall was chosen over him. But since he's been at OSU, theres been nothing.

    They talked to the high school coaches and said he would have a spot if he were to want it. But they really did not "recruit" him. They left it up to Kyle.

    You can believe it or not, but Holtmann/Pedon/Ohio State operated fully within the rules here.

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  463. No matter how you peel an onion it is still an onion. Why did they call him that morning?  What did they say to him ?  Why would they call his high school coach at all let alone say he has a spot if he comes?   They really didn't " recruit" him? Of course it always was up to Kyle. Come on THicks.

  464. The last time Holtmann talked directly to Kyle Young was the morning that he took the Ohio State job. Pedon had contact until LaVall was chosen over him. But since he's been at OSU, theres been nothing.

    They talked to the high school coaches and said he would have a spot if he were to want it. But they really did not "recruit" him. They left it up to Kyle.

    You can believe it or not, but Holtmann/Pedon/Ohio State operated fully within the rules here.

    This is simply unbelievable. 🙂

  465. No matter how you peel an onion it is still an onion. Why did they call him that morning?  What did they say to him ?  Why would they call his high school coach at all let alone say he has a spot if he comes?   They really didn't " recruit" him? Of course it always was up to Kyle. Come on THicks.

    Why did he call Kyle? To tell him he took the OSU job. Same as he did with Neese and the others. THicks and Jared Grubbs would know infinitely more than anyone on this forum, questioning them is dumb.

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  466. So now we can't question either of them?  Can we question you?  Let's assume that we can question you- Why did CH call his coach and when?   Do you think it is OK to call his coach after they accepted the jobs at OSU and tell him there is a spot for KY?  This isn't recruiting? Again since I can't ask either THicks or Grubbs you are next up.

  467. So now we can't question either of them?  Can we question you?  Let's assume that we can question you- Why did CH call his coach and when?   Do you think it is OK to call his coach after they accepted the jobs at OSU and tell him there is a spot for KY?  This isn't recruiting? Again since I can't ask either THicks or Grubbs you are next up.

    I don't have either of their sources. But do I think it's appropriate to call their high school coaches? Not really. As for all your other questions, Tyler answered them in his post above.

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  468. The last time Holtmann talked directly to Kyle Young was the morning that he took the Ohio State job. Pedon had contact until LaVall was chosen over him. But since he's been at OSU, theres been nothing.

    They talked to the high school coaches and said he would have a spot if he were to want it. But they really did not "recruit" him. They left it up to Kyle.

    You can believe it or not, but Holtmann/Pedon/Ohio State operated fully within the rules here.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app

    I know others were mentioning NCAA violations, but I'm not going that far.   There is a huge difference between operating within the rules and unethical recruiting tactics.  Even though I suspected the Pedon contacts before you confirmed, I felt the situation was handled unethically by ***'s staff.  Now that I know the Pedon bit, it solidifies that the whole deal was underhanded.

  469. I don't have either of their sources. But do I think it's appropriate to call their high school coaches? Not really. As for all your other questions, Tyler answered them in his post above.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

    Tom Davis of the News Sentinel is a possible source as that is what he said in his article about CH/staff contacting KY the morning he accepted the job and then contacted his coach to let KY know there was a position for him.   Listen at this point I'm glad the two are gone and we are reloading with guys that were former Butler players or coaches and have some modicum of loyalty and hopefully are ethical.

  470. Let's put a nail in this coffin and move on.  Please.  We're beating a dead horse here.

    Regardless of what Holt & staff did/didn't do is all water under the bridge at this point.  KY decided, and that's fine.  We might not like it, but it is what it is.

    Let's put our focus and energy behind LaVall, the future and the 4 boys who decided that The Butler Way is for them.

    #GoDawgs

  471. Nice Athletic article about Young – https://theathletic.com/1657576/2020/03/09/ohio-states-kyle-young-had-to-find-closure-before-he-could-be-himself/

    It mentions how gracious Collier was to grant him his release. Sounds like Kyle ended up in a pretty dark place starting college with homesickness and his father's death still hurting him. A quote from his mother (hope no one takes this the wrong way): "“Thank God he ended up at Ohio State and not five hours away at Butler,’’ Mary says. “If we had gone through the same thing, with the homesickness, I don’t think he would have made it. Someone was looking out for us. That’s all I can say.’’

  472. Young has been a solid starter at OSU .  It’s very tough losing a parent at anytime but particularly when you are trying to adjust to college and the demands of playing a sport.  I don’t take what his mother said other than referring to the distance and homesickness and her need for him to be closer.

  473. Nice Athletic article about Young – https://theathletic.com/1657576/2020/03/09/ohio-states-kyle-young-had-to-find-closure-before-he-could-be-himself/

    It mentions how gracious Collier was to grant him his release. Sounds like Kyle ended up in a pretty dark place starting college with homesickness and his father's death still hurting him. A quote from his mother (hope no one takes this the wrong way): "“Thank God he ended up at Ohio State and not five hours away at Butler,’’ Mary says. “If we had gone through the same thing, with the homesickness, I don’t think he would have made it. Someone was looking out for us. That’s all I can say.’’

    Especially given the loss of his father, I never had a problem with him following Holtmann to OSU. I am glad he had his family close and it worked out for him.

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