20-21 Look ahead

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by willisbrown, Mar 18, 2020.

  1. Tiles52

    Tiles52 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying that any of the new guys will be world-beaters their freshmen year (far from it) but don't almost every other school have freshmen who are contributors their first year. It seems ironic that when we talk about other schools it seems that they always have a freshman or two who play a major role; but when we talk about a freshman at Butler, it seems to always be "well they are a freshman"
     
  2. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    We just rarely have impactful freshmen. If you look back, obviously KB was great, Martn has his moments, KD was ok...but I can't thnk of true freshman in the last decade other than that who have come in and shined right away. If you go back to Howard's first year and of course Mack and Heyward...but it's just been rare for us to have one if not two really come in and pop.

    Saying that, if there was a year to see that it is this year. We have 4 top 150ish guys, a couple will be impactful at least.
     
  3. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I’d say Shelvin, Ronald and Gordon were pretty impactful at freshmen;)
     
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  4. Bulldogs260

    Bulldogs260 Well-Known Member

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    You could say this about almost every program in the country. Butler has had a slim amount come in and “pop” but Butler is a program school just like most other colleges where we see kids like Sean McDermott come in as a young kid who doesn’t seem ready and leave as one of bulldogs fans all time favorites.


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  5. Lukas Harkins

    Lukas Harkins Well-Known Member

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    Numbers might not show it, but AT started 32 of 35 games as a freshman on an NCAA Tournament team. I'd add him to the list as impactful. He had to fill pretty big shoes with Woodson, Savage, and Lewis all leaving.

    Off my head, I'd say these guys were all impactful in their freshmen seasons in recent memory: Howard, Mack, Gordon, Nored, Marshall, Rosey, Woods, Dunham, Chrabascz, Kelan, Kamar, and Thompson.

    While there haven't been many recently...there also hasn't been that much need recently, either. I count 12 "impactful" freshman over the past 13 seasons - not great, but not every roster has offered the kinds of opportunities that this one will nor has every recruiting class been as highly-regarded as this one. I'm certainly not going to say Butler is a team that has great success with freshmen, but it's also not a program that has relied on them very often. That will be the case this season as there are more obvious needs and a big class arriving to hopefully address some of them.

    I don't think it's irrational to think one freshman is an okay-to-solid starter right away and another is a solid reserve. Any better than that would be a win, and worse would put Butler in a tough place for this season (and beyond if it's significantly worse, obviously, since it is pretty vitally important that this class succeeds over time).

    If that turns out to be the case, Butler will have a solid first six that hopes for a healthy return from David and steps forward from JMM (who I refuse to write off, sorry to those that do :p) and Hastings. I think it'll be a fun and interesting season that keeps fans engaged for most, if not all, of the year.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  6. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    Wasn’t David the sixth man before he got hurt and not Tucker?
     
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  7. BURph92

    BURph92 Well-Known Member

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    I think that’s correct.


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  8. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

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    AJ Graves was pretty darn good and impactful as a freshman as well

    And I forget AC was pretty good as a freshman as well

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    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  9. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking in the last decade or so, someone that came in, started off the jump and was a top3-4 contributor on the team, which is what we are going to need from someone in this group if we want this team to finish in marginal shape. I went back to 2011 basically, the year after the last title run. We've done really well with transfers coming in and holding water for sure. But freshmen...it's been many more misses than hits. I failed ot mention Big C who after getting into the lineup, was pretty efficient, but that season was so awful I try to forget it happened.

    I guess what I'm saying is we have solid pieces...but need a dynamic player to compliment them. And unless we strike gold on an immediate, I just don't know if we have that...yet. But you never know, one of these pups could just come on the scene (scooby) and kick some major booty.
     
  10. Lukas Harkins

    Lukas Harkins Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I just didn't go back further than the Howard freshman campaign :).
     
  11. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    Agree with you but for some reason I don’t see Marquette, GT, SJU, SHU, Xavier, Depaul being that strong either. Sure we could really use a really good scorer but so do all of these teams.
     
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  12. SnoopDawg

    SnoopDawg Well-Known Member

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    I think Providence is going to have a pretty down year too. Seton Hall could be better than we think if Aiken is the real deal.

    People are underestimating what Butler basketball is and that’s team ball. Sure we could use another spot up shooter, but dynamic scoring options aren’t what we do. Many of you *****ed and moaned when KB or Rosie forced shots to the basket. I have a lot of faith in the most experienced guard in the nation, AT. Kid has been starting since a freshman and is a floor general. LJ is going to put a lot of trust in him and I believe in him too. He’s already one of my favorite players of all time and next year is his year. It’s a shame he doesn’t have a shot because he literally is all you could ever ask for in every other facet of the game.
     
  13. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    I think the starting lineup is pretty predictable-Scoob, Golden, Nze, AT and Bolden. After that who knows. A lot depends on health (David and Hastings) and how Tate/Harris/Coles adjust to big boy ball. I have great faith that all 3 can contribute. My wild card is Coles...he's a PF, and probably body wise ready for BE play, but also he can step out...would be nice to have a consistent 35% or so shooter from deep to draw bigs away so AT can do his damage.
     
  14. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    I’d expect David will start instead of a freshman. So I’m going with Nze,Golden, AT, Bolden and David. That is an extremely experienced crew. David was our sixth man before getting hurt and has far more experience. Off the bench it will be Mulloy, Hastings and Scooby ( maybe Coles) on the front line with Tate and Harris in the backcourt.
     
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  15. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    Hastings nor David can stay healthy...so I'm not counting on that plus you need someone who can do something offensively out there...put David in that mix and that's not the case. The kid is playing on two bad wheels and there is no guarantee he'll be able to go right away. And if he is, what are the limitations? He cannot be counted on for more than 15 or so minutes. He's better (if he gets healthy) to come off the bench for spot 3/4 minures. Not a starting role IMO. Scoob on the other hand will be a future all big east type I believe.
     
  16. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    That’s obviously issues with Hastings and David. But I’ll still go with David as a starter until someone beats him out or he can’t go. Scooby is the future and in my opinion he and Tate will be the first freshmen off the bench. I can’t get warm and fuzzy over the other freshmen as freshmen.
     
  17. Lukas Harkins

    Lukas Harkins Well-Known Member

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    I know you are fairly pessimistic with regard to this coming season, but you also say that you "have great faith that all 3 (Tate/Harris/Coles) can contribute" and I don't think both situations can co-exist. Butler's core four is pretty rock-solid with average-to-above-average upperclassmen starters with AT, Bolden, Nze, and Golden. If you say all three of those freshmen can contribute without mentioning Scooby, who I am pretty you are the highest on of the newcomers, in that group, then Butler would have a pretty dynamite Top 8. If you are that high on the freshmen, then you should be pretty high on the prospects of the team in general. (I'm personally projecting only 2-3 freshmen as strong contributors and Butler as a bubble team.)
     
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  18. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    I'm high on them all becoming very good bulldogs. But they are also freshmen and inconsistency will be a pill we all will have to swallow st times. That and the core 4 you mention are yes, solid, as I've said, but, also none are offensively big time. I really like Bolden's game. And I love the freshmen coming in but again, freshmen. We don't know jack about it yet. And losing two players who would have contributed...we just have many unknowns. I believe this will be more of a 2011-2012 or 2018-2019 type year. Ok but surely not tournament (unless we ink an immediate, then all changes). And I'm sorry to all, but my expectations year in and year out is the go dancing. When we don't it's a flop in my mind. And this squad, I don't believe, is going dancing.

    The fun part will be though, during what will be many struggles, I believe we'll see some pretty awesome moments for the pups that we can dream on going forward.
     
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  19. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

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    What do you want to bet Harris is ahead of Tate next year?

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  20. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    Haha, sucker bet. LaVall loves Harris. That was his first toy in this class and dude loooooooves him. Personally, I think Tate is more talented but I also believe Harris has some things that LaVall likes. So...not making that bet homie. Harris will play more I would think in the beginning. I have no idea long term. That's what makes freshmen fun. You just don't know.
     
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