2017 Coaching Search Revisited

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by BigHoss, Mar 16, 2021.

  1. BigHoss

    BigHoss Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    With the news of Micah Shrewsberry accepting the job at Penn State, I figured it would be an interesting time to take a look back at the days following Holtmann's departure, and get a feel for what the board was thinking at the time.

    If memory serves me correct, there were only 2 legitimate candidates for the job - LaVall and Shrews (correct me if I'm wrong here).

    At that time, I believed that Shrews would be the "safer" hire - more polished with X's and O's, more experience on the bench, and had worked directly under Brad for several years. My only question was whether or not he could maintain the same level of recruiting that Holt has been producing leading up to his departure. I did have confidence that Shrews would hire an excellent, and well rounded assistant staff to help with recruiting, given his strong Butler ties from the Brad years.

    I thought hiring LaVall was more of a "high risk, high reward" type move. He had some experience under Beilein, and some Head Coaching experience, which yielded some poor results. Perhaps the sample size was not yet large enough to determine that, though. He had been universally lauded for his player development, and his work on the recruiting trail.

    Obviously, LaVall ended up being the pick. And time will tell on who the better HC will be. But it will be very interesting to follow both men, given they are each the Head Coach at a Power Conference school.

    Who did you want back in the summer of 2017? Would you still stick with that choice if you knew then what you know now?
     
  2. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
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    I wanted Shrews back then, but I've never been unhappy about LJ.
     
  3. pharmtard09

    pharmtard09 Active Member

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    I'm still adamant that Terry Johnson should have been hired. Was an assistant here for 10 years and got passed over.

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  4. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    I wanted shrews at the time as well. Will be following PSU closely the next couple of seasons.
     
  5. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

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    I am the most qualified person on the planet to discuss this.
     
  6. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Impossible. If you don’t revere Lubbock your judgement is worse than a rock.


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  7. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,178
    You can come to a game and I’ll show you around State College. Although I’m trying to move west to the mountains since NJ blows, so I might not get back to SC all that often anymore.
     
    Hinkle likes this.
  8. Baddog

    Baddog Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,789
    Was very excited when Jordan was hired. (probably wouldn't have been upset with Micah either.) Former Butler player and grad. Understood the culture, pros and cons. 20 years of D-1 coaching experience. Seemed like a perfect (and logical) fit. Also, didn't understand some of Holtmann's "issues" with players, especially his odd treatment of Martin and relegating the best player on the team to coming off the bench, usually after "spotting" the opponent a lead. Certainly didn't want him fired or anything like that, but after his flip-flop, was glad we were rid of him and we got our Butler guy. Sadly, who knew Jordan wasn't head coaching material.

    Excitement turned to real concern with all kinds of red flags during that first season where he grossly underachieved with Holtmann's players. 14 fricking losses??? And that stupid 8-8-8 offensive scheme. Sadly, have seen no progression in his players or in his coaching skills over the seasons he's been here. What player(s) has gotten appreciably better under Jordan that is not attributable to more experience and age? Marked improvement, not just a little better. Kamar was going one-on-one in high school. But I can think of several players that have been grossly misused and have skills but are not developed. All of his teams lack basic fundamentals on both ends of the court and are undisciplined and don't play with a whole lot of smarts, the hallmarks of so many Butler teams in recent years. And are pi$$ poor shooters. Can we not recruit shooters?

    We just finished 10th in an 11 team league. So he's got his players now. He has "his" system, whatever that is. If we're lucky, we won't be dealing with Covid next year. A mulligan year for everyone this year, but it still counts since everyone had to deal with it. Fifth year (Don't forget, two of the previous four have been losers, and all four would have been double digit losses had not Covid stopped the season last year at 9. That's a hell of a lot of losses.) Excuses are running out. So are expectations really high next year? Is it a make or break year for Jordan? It should be, IMO. No way were they going to fire Jordan or even contemplate it. But if the powers that be were smart, they would let him recruit and run practices and be the face of the team. Just keep him away from player development, game planning and game management. Will never happen. So in lieu of a shakeup of responsibilities and some new faces on the staff, we need to avoid scheduling powerhouses like Southern Illinois at home. With a loaded cupcake front end maybe we can still eke out a winning record even after Big East reality sets in. Mediocrity will reign, if we're lucky.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
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  9. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    I’ve actually been to state college for a big ten football game. It was very snowy and they blew them out. Had a great time.
     
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  10. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Thank you for a genuine post with a genuine topic and a good discussion.

    And you were able to do it all without your "big hoss" schtick. See...it can happen!

    Salud!
     
  11. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

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    Do you remember when and vs. whom?
     
  12. Staxawax

    Staxawax Well-Known Member

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    dawgs2014, troggy and pjohnsto2003 like this.
  13. pjohnsto2003

    pjohnsto2003 Well-Known Member

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    I honestly feel that Title has come around quite a bit. Part of that could be we just witnessed a pretty tough season, but it feels like a corner has been turned and I am appreciating his intermittent posts for the most part.


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  14. Tiles52

    Tiles52 Well-Known Member

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    Good question. While it is true that most of the players on the team are ones that Jordan recruited; I'm not sure that it can be said that he had his players this year since two of the five freshmen were out for all or most of the season; and that other injuries, etc. resulted in sometimes only having 7 to 8 scholarship players available. It also seems that some people forget that Bulter was most likely going to be a tournament team last year; so I'm not sure how last year could be viewed as a failure.

    "He has "his" system, whatever that is. If we're lucky, we won't be dealing with Covid next year. A mulligan year for everyone this year, but it still counts since everyone had to deal with it. Fifth year (Don't forget, two of the previous four have been losers, and all four would have been double digit losses had not Covid stopped the season last year at 9. That's a hell of a lot of losses.)"

    I don't necessarily agree that 10 or 11 losses in a season constiture "a lot of losses" A number of teams get into the tournament each year with that many or more losses; and I think that most teams would be happy being in the tournament each year even if they had double digit losses.
     
  15. Shark

    Shark Member

    Money:
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    Plus-they spent a week at #6 and a week at #5 last year. And ended up in the top 25. And if any of you think a year in the top 25 is a "bad year", then you clearly weren't watching back in 1986.
     
  16. troggy

    troggy Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,012
    Go back and look at some of the numbers that Avery Woodson put up, after he went in the starting lineup. That was possibly Butler's deepest team. Bringing Martin off the bench wasn't the worst thing in the world and probably made him a better player in the long run.
     
  17. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    I look forward to the day Big Hoss starts a thread of his favorite porn sites. I’m sure there’s a Butler girl somewhere who has become an “actress”.
     
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  18. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    You're gonna make me think you are Big Hoss! :D
     
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  19. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Uhhh Sean McDermott went from a guy who was redshirted to a guy is playing in the NBA. There is probably at most 1-2 guys per year who redshirt for basketball reasons and make the nba after their fifth year.

    Kelan Martin also took a *dramatic* jump.

    Kamar Baldwin’s playmaking ability *dramatically* improved.

    Also, In that season Lavall “underachieved”-his final Kenpom ranking was as high as Holtmann ever achieved.




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  20. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    Maybe I'm wrong but I thought he didn't want to interview for the job. Only Ryan did.
     

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