Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by NCJon, Apr 5, 2019.
It's not just conference play. The whole schedule will be, uh, let's just say, challenging.
We will be lucky to break even again.
We're not finishing above .500 with this roster.
Don't know if it's sad or pathetic or humorous or all of the above, but just about every player on the current roster was "touted" and "welcomed" by board members when they were signed at Butler. Ironically, the criticism is coming from most of the same folks who are now trashing these guys as low quality. Gee, if we just had better players. Don't forget, several of these current players came in with decent credentials.....and potential. What happened? How could we have missed on so many? Agree, maybe not the most talented comparatively speaking. But 16 - 17? In a really, really down Big East. Wonder if perception of the roster would be different had they had coaching that effectively developed their talent and matched the game plans, strategies and approaches to their strengths, rather than taking the square peg, round hole approach. I do agree with you. I doubt if we're finishing above .500 next season with this roster. Although, I might substitute coaching staff for roster. All this angst for getting better players. Battle coming in with much the same hype and hopeful expectations as others. Will be interesting to see how he is developed and utilized. Or not. No matter the roster, it starts at the top. (How about that Texas Tech patchwork roster. Guess good effective coaching actually can make a difference. )
Funny thing is that by October people will have talked themselves into Butler going 10-3 in the non-conference, 10-8 in the Big East and back into the tournament.
I'm with you. I said this roster because as it stands this roster, with the leadership on the bench...yeah going nowhere. The talent isn't just terrible, far from it. But it's not good enough to overcome the ineptitude of the coaching staff and the repeated mistakes game after game and the lack of urgency or any signs of life these kids have to play for/with/around. Trust me I'm on the player's side...there are a couple more I'd like to see leave because I don't think they can play at this level and I don't think the coaches recognize that. The only hope is a roster turnover with huge amounts of talent where, much like with Kelan, the talent carried the team and overcame the errors on the bench. This roster as is doesn't have that, and we are now angling to sign guys that can't play until 2020 so, yeah, this roster is ok with a great coach. Marginal with a good coach. The titanic after the ice burg with the current staff. They are good to a point, but that point isn't good enough in this conference with this schedule and this staff.
I don't necessarily disagree that the team, as currently constructed, is a .500 one. But that's due as much to the schedule as anything. As stated before, Butler may have literally the most difficult schedule in college basketball next season. You have to be pretty damn good to go much over .500 when playing that kind of schedule.
While the roster is capable to promising from 1-3 next year, the front court is in pretty bad shape as it stands. We have one real option at power forward, and without any additions or a gigantic leap forward from Golden, our lone power forward will be forced to primarily play center. Again, this doesn't mean Butler's roster is particularly bad (e.g., sub-100 or DePaul level), it's just that going above .500 against this schedule is going to be extremely difficult with this kind of a roster issue.
By way of example, in 2017, Oklahoma had the 65th rated team but finished just 11-20 because their schedule was the second most difficult. That same year, Texas was the 70th rated team yet finished 11-22 because they played the 4th most difficult schedule. In 2015, Florida had the 34th rated team yet went 16-17 because they played a difficult schedule and caught some bad breaks.
Point is, without any grad transfers, Butler is going to struggle to go above .500 next year (and could go welllllll below .500) because that schedule is miserable and the roster - while perhaps not bad - probably isn't particularly good either.
Yep, it's in no way a full on "bad" roster, but it may not be complete and it's probably right now in the mediocre to slightly good category. But that won't be nearly good enough. I think those records you posted could be what we are looking at if the right additions are not made. Let's say 31 games...something like 13-18 or 14-17 certainly isn't a long shot. And yeah we'll be rated in the top 75-80 even so, because this schedule is shaping up to be insane.
I hope to see a sense of urgency on some of these targets. They're needed. And I can promise you, if it turns out either McD or Tucker...or hell both, see major minutes at the four, not good.
Probably the wrong place to put this, but granted, this upcoming season is looking bleak save for a couple homerun hail marys [insert sport cliché here], the odd roster makeup and lack of top-end talent and proven coaching combined with a loaded Big East and crushing Out of Conference schedule, is anyone else getting a bit concerned about 2020? I know that they are scrambling right now on transfers for the upcoming season, but I can't be the only one a bit concerned that 2020 is a make or break year that will see us with anything from 3 to 5 scholarships to fill and we haven't signed anyone or made any real traction with game-changing top targets?
Again, I'm sure there's more going on behind the scenes than we know, but this program needs some momentum, especially if this next season is as abysmal as we think it might be.
It's too far out to get too worked up yet, but right now 2020 looks like an abject disaster.
I'm genuinely curious--how does one assess 2020 prospects right now? The vast majority of 2020 players have yet to sign and we have been linked to several in top150.
Is it from having potentially 5 open scholarships and 0 signings as of now? Is it from 2 years of underperformance (assuming next year we don't make the tournament)? Or something else?
Who seems excited about us?
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I don't know (either positively or negatively). That is why I asked the question but I take it you are not seeing anyone excited about us.
In the spirit of taking things out of context (it's a message board, I believe it's almost required), let's go with this: Hmm, if "abject failure" doesn't get you worked up, what does? This, of course, segues to posts about Collier and then Nero + fiddle + fire.
Long story short, I'm concerned about 2020. And beyond. Right now, it's easier seeing the program's future going bad than going good.
Yessir, if we were to say, it looks bleak. A lot can happen, but just looking at things as they sit, not much traction being gained.
The problem is much more than just not having kids in good position in 2020.
The real problem is that they have had TWO YEARS to recruit the class, nearly exclusively, and this is what they have. It is objectively a bad staff. It would be unheard of anywhere but there to retain the full staff given the year they have AND none of those assistants contributing anything to their recruiting (ever, much less just that class)
Right. It was more of an answer than a question. As Hinkle said-too early to get excited about, but it would be nice to hear us as a place people like.
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This is actually a reasonable point.
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The scary part is if the bad desperation sets in and they just start throwing ish up at the wall, not giving a damn what sticks, just hoping something does. I can see this staff making a yuge problem worse.
We need a transfer win and badly, hell even the never nay sayers are beginning to look around and wonder. Go get that win, LaVall.
I thought the Mulloy, Battle, Nze, Golden and Hastings was the only class so far for LJ and crew. You can kind throw Tucker in there. Which class am I missing?
David, Brunk and JGB were under Holtmann weren’t they? I’ll take LJ’s recruits over Holtmanns.
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