2021 Transfers

Discussion in 'Butler Recruiting' started by UDDawg, Jan 5, 2021.

  1. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $8,988
    I can no longer take someone seriously once they claim that college athletes are playing "for free." Do I think players should be able to profit more than they currently do? Yes, actually. But a distinction must be made between all the benefits they do get and playing "for free."
     
  2. Ignatius J. Reilly

    Ignatius J. Reilly Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,126
    You're certainly under no obligation to take me seriously!

    *15 likes from all the people who hate my posts*
     
  3. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,202
    You’re right, I missed the covid announcement. My apologies on that.

    That still doesn’t make him a quitter, though. The insinuation it does is just....bad.

    Besides, you’re the biggest critic of Joey Brunk for what happened when he clearly didn’t want to be here, now Hastings leaves because he didn’t want to be here, and you’re the biggest critic of him.

    You’ve now been the biggest critic of two kids that have handled the scenario two opposite ways.

    What do you want from them?


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
    NCJon likes this.
  4. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $8,988
    I wasn't talking about you, I was referring to the tweet you posted.
     
    Ignatius J. Reilly likes this.
  5. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,202
    Actually completely agree here.

    I don’t know what low major or other d1 athletes get, but scholarship athletes at Butler obviously get the scholarship, but they also get really healthy scholarship stipends, free food, very healthy per diems when there over breaks, books, housing etc.

    Are the athletes in big money sports compensated for the value that they generate? I think the answer is unequivocally no. It’s really hard to craft an argument that says otherwise.

    I think it’s also really hard to craft an honest argument that it’s any more exploitative than any other business.

    I think the overwhelming majority of college athletes would still choose to be college athletes if they were offered less than they are now. I also think that despite my previous sentence, that many athletes “deserve” more than what they’re getting, and that limitations such as schools but not players profiting off of players’ likenesses are asinine.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
    DawgPoundMac, mwall787 and UDDawg like this.
  6. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,433
    I evidently missed some sarcasm in an earlier post. To be clear, I don’t have a problem with transferring generally (if Hastings or whoever wants to look elsewhere for more playing time or a better fit or whatever, go for it). But transferring in the middle of a semester seems bad for everyone - the player, their teammates, the school, the coach, etc.
     
    willisbrown likes this.
  7. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,092
    I'm not being critical of Hastings. I'm calling a spade a spade. He took his ball and went home. I could care less if he is a Butler Bulldog or not because he doesn't have the skill level to play here. He saw it and instead of using the minutes available he said "f it, I'm out". It just is. And if he was checked out, I'm glad he quit.

    Brunk had the IU stuff lined up while still playing here. All he had to do was graduate. The rest was in play. To me that is a bug time bietch move and he compromised this program and was in position with his minutes to do so. That irks me way more than Hastings. I don't give a damn about what Hastings does or doesn't do. He was never going to contribute much here. But, it doesn't mean I can't call something what it is. If this wasn't a good spot for him (it wasn't) then yes, make a move. And again if checked out, good move to leave.
     
    HoosierDawg likes this.
  8. Ignatius J. Reilly

    Ignatius J. Reilly Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,126
    I guess where I'm coming from -- and where this is stemming -- is that I feel bad for someone like Hastings. I want to think about his timeline. He commits to Butler out of nowhere, and the sentiment is cautious optimism. Nobody knows him and he's low-rated but he looks athletic so maybe the staff found a gem. And then he gets hurt. His athleticism is sapped and he's not the same player. The narrative moves to "maybe he can't play at this level, he has two bum wheels, he should maybe go elsewhere." Then he finally gets a chance to play and he's a below average player on a bad team. He can't play defense and he can't shoot. Fans on this forum note how bad he is.

    So he went from someone who was unheard of but some hope to a kid who can't play at a Big East level, and maybe should go to somewhere like Central Michigan. And it's easy for me to imagine if he had stayed, that fans would still be criticizing his poor play when we was on the court and that he was stealing valuable developmental minutes from a guy like Wilmoth.

    I'm just not sure how he was supposed to succeed outside of just being a different player. Fans wanted him to transfer. Maybe people wanted him to stick around and be available but also ride the bench? I mean, I guess I can see that.

    This has been a horrible year for so many people. I just don't see the value in deriding a young person with labels like "quitter" for making a choice they were already hoping he'd make, but at a more convenient time. Again, if Butler lands one of these other kids who are transferring right now, I'm all for it. But we're not going to call them quitters because we still think they could be valuable here. And Hastings wasn't seen as valuable any more. That's my just two cents. Let's try to be more empathic towards kids who are still figuring things out. I'm sure we've all felt this in the last year, but timing is rarely perfect.

    tl;dr -- A lot of people wanted Hastings to transfer. So why attach a negative label when you've already gotten the outcome you wanted from the start? Who does that serve?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
    2xDawg, PSUButlerFan, NCJon and 2 others like this.
  9. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,202
    The way that I see it, calling him a quitter is looking at it strictly from a “what can he do for me?” Perspective. It ignores that he’s a real human being as well.




    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
    2xDawg and PSUButlerFan like this.
  10. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,433
    I don’t think that’s necessarily right. He wasn’t going to do anything for me or Butler by staying. How does transferring now instead of May help him? It doesn’t.
     
  11. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,202
    That’s looking at it purely from a basketball standpoint. If he wasn’t happy, then leaving now gets him out of a situation that wasn’t happy for him.

    If that’s the case, I applaud him for it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
    2xDawg likes this.
  12. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,433
    No, I was thinking academics, but in a dumb way. In my head, I was thinking entering the portal now meant he would be transferring/changing schools right now instead of May, but I know that’s not really the case.

    Even then, I guess unless you’re being actively mistreated by the program, it’s hard to imagine that leaving and not practicing/training with the team is better than doing so unless you just want to be done with basketball altogether. His athletic (and thus academic) options likely will be more limited by leaving earlier than not.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
    willisbrown likes this.
  13. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,092
    This draws me back to the curious point of not wanting to showcase himself? He had an amazing opportunity with all the injuries/ineligibility to showcase himself for lower D1 schools that could use a 6'7" dude.

    Personally if he wanted to leave the program, to me whatever. I don't need a distraction to what already is the worst year in generations for this program. But, if I'm him...play the game, get another fine semester of high level learning for free and then tell everyone to go F themselves.

    Maybe he was becoming that distraction and LaVall had enough, swung the door open and gave him a plane ticket home.
     
  14. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,202
    All these guys have private coaches or access to them, and in season practices don’t yield themselves much to skill development as they do game planning. There’s a very real argument to be made that by going home now he actually could become a better basketball player than he would have been by staying at Butler and practicing.-I have no idea if that’s true or not, but it’s certainly a plausible position to take and backed by the realization of how much skill development occurs over the summer vs in season.

    With virtual classes he can be enrolled at any school, even Butler-so he’s not hurting himself there either.

    Maybe you’re, right; it’s totally possible- but I could easily see a scenario where he’s actually helping himself.

    None of that even starts to address the fact that it’s totally possible he was simply unhappy, even if it had nothing to do with basketball.



    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  15. ConnersvilleBulldog

    ConnersvilleBulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $8,324
    If you aren’t happy at a place, and you know you’re not going to stay there, it’s probably hard to stay and pretend you’re fine. Even if that means missing out on a little bit of practice and game time.

    In the end, if he didn’t want to be here it’s probably best for both parties to leave. Morale is already low enough this season. You don’t need players around who don’t want to me here. I hope he lands somewhere and has a good rest of his career.
     
  16. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $7,132
    Probably will be seeing more of this mid-year transfer stuff in the years to come. Much like how the transfer market has exploded.

    If a kid sees the writing on the wall (or has been told that’s how it is) finishes out the semester, performs in the classroom, fulfills a role on the scout team and doesn’t bring the locker room down, then I see that as an admirable way to go out.

    If a kid challenges the coach about PT, hears something they don’t like, drops out after the semester begins and goes home with intentions to transfer...then I guess that’s one way to handle it.

    But I know which one rightly or wrongly reflects better on the young man and ultimately going through the process of finishing out under challenging circumstances could build character and fortitude that will help him down the road. My 2 cents.

    *18-21 year olds are a work in progress and my scenario above is no indictment.
     
    NCJon, UDDawg and dawgs2014 like this.
  17. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,202
    Appreciate the asterisk.

    As easy as it is to say what the best thing to do in a situation is, it’s way harder to do it-even for grown adults.

    College kids are not known for their outstanding judgement. Allowing a kid to retain the benefit of the doubt for doing something that seems suboptimal is probably a necessity.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
    tlp63 likes this.
  18. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $7,132
    Wonder if Antoine Davis would consider leaving his dad? Very solid numbers and hitting 91% from the line:)

     
    mwall787, znelson15 and willisbrown like this.
  19. IrishDawghouse

    IrishDawghouse Active Member

    Money:
    $369
    Davis is a bucket. I’d imagine if he transfers though, dang near every school would be on him


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
  20. IrishDawghouse

    IrishDawghouse Active Member

    Money:
    $369
    This is sort of a stretch with how hard every team hits the transfer portal now, but if Butler can pull off 2 key transfers for this upcoming year then I will really like next year’s team.
    1. A guard/forward that can fill it up on offense, but isn’t just limited to 3’s like Bolden is. Someone like a Nate Johnson that Xavier got last cycle. Doesn’t have to be an all-conference guy but someone who averages 12+ PPG. Antoine Davis mentioned above^ would be a grand slam type of player to fill this role.
    2. A big man who is athletic and simply a disrupter on defense/clean up man on offense. Even if he only averages 6 or 7 points, just a body to bang with the other bigs in the league. Would maybe have to go the mid-major or D2 route to get this guy since athletic bigs are in such high demand. Colin Castleton (UM transfer) who is thriving at Florida now is the type of guy I think of here for a dream scenario.



    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     

Share This Page