$3MM Butler Head Coach's Salary

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by tobystorrs, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. tobystorrs

    tobystorrs New Member

    Money:
    $27
    I have never posted on this forum before. If I have violated some protocol, please don’t hesitate to call me out. In short, my question is why doesn’t Butler pay a much more significant salary to its men’s head basketball coach? Kentucky pays Calipari about $8MM (highest paid) and Butler pays Jordan about $700K (71st highest paid). Further data points from a couple of private schools: Duke/Krzyzewski - $7MM; Gonzaga/Few - $3MM. The reason I ask is that it seems to me that Butler could aspire to Duke-like basketball prominence if it invested more in the program, particularly in the head coach’s salary. My reasons for why Butler should do so and is uniquely positioned to do so are:
    1. The storied history of Butler basketball. It’s not absolutely crucial, but in an effort to attain national prominence as a basketball program, it greatly helps to have a strong tradition. The likes of Kansas, UCLA, IU, Duke, and Kentucky all have that. Most small schools who don’t have it can’t suddenly manufacture it. But Butler already has it, or at least has a strong foundation for it.
    2. Indiana. This is sort of related to my first point. But on top of a storied history, it helps if your program comes from the basketball mecca that is Indiana. It helps with recruiting, fan support, monetary support, etc.
    3. Basketball is king of the hill. Butler, like Duke, probably even more than Duke, is a basketball-first school with every other sport being a distant second. You could argue that even at Duke the second-place sports are not as far behind the leader (basketball) as they are at Butler. This gives Butler a huge advantage over other schools in terms of resources (fan support, money, alumni, boosters) that can be disproportionately pumped into the basketball program.
    4. Administration. Duke was a good school, but all the notoriety and money that Krzyzewski and the basketball team’s success brought into the university elevated it to elite academic status. Basketball brought money and attention to Duke that inured to the benefit of the school’s academic stature. Even an administration that is focused more on academics than basketball, then, should want what Duke has in its basketball program. Again, Butler is uniquely positioned because of the factors mentioned above to use basketball to elevate its academic reputation. Other small private schools aren’t positioned in this way.
    5. Alumni. A premier basketball program brings alumni money and support into a school. More specifically, though, with alumni like Gordon Hayward, who has a $120MM salary and is interested in seeing Butler basketball succeed, Butler could probably endow a head basketball coach’s salary that is on the order of Calipari’s or Krzyzewski’s salary, or “at least” on the order of Mark Few’s salary. Brad Stevens is probably going to stay in the NBA until he wins a championship. But with a competitive salary, might a guy like him come back to coach at Butler? Who wouldn’t want to make millions a year as a god on a college campus (ala Kryzewski) and live like a king in your hometown? I believe Stevens makes about the same amount in the NBA as Tom Izzo does as an untouchable icon on MSU’s campus.

    One last thought: I don’t want this to become a discussion about LaVall Jordan. If he is the right man for the job, maybe he is the one who gets to benefit from an increased salary. If he is not the right man for the job, the point of the discussion is that a top salary would open a search to the entire universe of available coaches. The question for the group is whether, for the five reasons above, Butler could elevate its basketball program to prominence so that 2010-2011 is the permanent state of the program and not a one-time thing.
     
  2. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,502
    They don’t have the money. I suspect there also would be title ix implications that would mean they have to spend not just on the coaches salary, but on women’s sports as well-maybe estar can shed some light on that. He’d know better than me.

    But the beginning and end of the conversation is that they don’t have the money.


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  3. tobystorrs

    tobystorrs New Member

    Money:
    $27
    But what about my point No. 5? Don’t you think there are enough Gordon Haywards and other wealthy alums who are big enough bb nuts that you could raise an endowment to fund the salary? And, after enough success, the program starts more than paying for itself, including the big salary. Can’t be done at other small schools. But maybe at Butler?
     
  4. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,178
    No. This works at my alma mater. Not Butler.
     
  5. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $7,218
    That you, Buddy Baker? I kid—no idea who Vall’s agent is:). Anyway—always appreciate genuine conversation and will be interested to hear how others respond.


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  6. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,599
    Lavall you really shouldn’t post on the butler forum


    Sent from my iPhone, so it’s probably not written all that well
     
  7. tobystorrs

    tobystorrs New Member

    Money:
    $27
    Ha!
     
    znelson15 likes this.
  8. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,502
    No I don’t.

    The best evidence I have for that is that they havent done it. If they could, Holtmann would still be here.

    There’s also so many other things and staffing our athletic department skirts by without that they should have. Credit to those who get stretched to do 3 and 4 jobs, but I don’t think we have any cash at all that we aren’t using.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  9. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,922
    Title ix is a tricky component, I won't bore anyone with all the details, but there are three ways to be title ix compliant. The easiest way is to allocate the same amount of resources to women's as men's so from a if you want to stay compliant and give now to the men's team more resources you either most increase the women's resources or decrease from other men's teams, both of these probably aren't likely in the given economic situation. Now you can earmark donations to a specific area, group, building etc without title ix implications hence where big schools can fund things through various financial channels.

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  10. ButlerFan89

    ButlerFan89 Member

    Money:
    $82
    Check the most recent 990. LJ now makes >$1.7m. Boltmann was making over $2m when he left.


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  11. ButlerFan89

    ButlerFan89 Member

    Money:
    $82
    And you didn’t look at Endowments. Butler has the smallest at between $240-290m.


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  12. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,502
    The endowment is shockingly small. Hell if they bought Amazon stock with the Hinkle renovation money they’d have considerably more money.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops

    Just confirmed this-using $34,000,000 on Amazon stock in 2014 would be worth $316,000,000 now, so they could do the renovations and still have a higher endowment of their endowment was only the Amazon stock bought with the renovation money.
     
  13. tobystorrs

    tobystorrs New Member

    Money:
    $27
    The endowment is shockingly small. There is a chicken and egg thing here, though. I’m not a Title IX expert like estar20dawg is. But, boy, if guys like Hayward wanted to see their alma mater go through the roof, they could throw rocket fuel on the situation by funding the head coaches seat just like benefactors at some schools endow a department chair.
     
    znelson15 likes this.
  14. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,502
    You’re right. He could make a difference. He did provide a significant donation and the men’s film room is named after him as a result. He’s since forth made a hell of a lot more money.

    I don’t like looking at it like he has any responsibility to give anything back to butler, though it definitely would be nice. It’s his money, he shouldn’t be judged for his usage of it imo.

    I also just don’t get the feeling that he feels all that connected to the school. That’s not based on anything in particular and may be completely wrong, but I don’t sense that he’s like some of our other alum who are heavily emotionally invested in what happens.


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  15. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,922
    I believe Hayward has donated quite sizably with every contract. It would take quite a bit more, and then have the right finance team in place to put the funds to work to continue to generate spending money from the donation would be nice. In some really conservative CEFs you can easily generate conservatively 7% if you want to diversify a little more risk into the CEFs you can easily get to 10%, do the math at 300mill you can generate 30mil without touching the 300mil until you need to dip in for something

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  16. znelson15

    znelson15 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,029
    Gonzaga never was at 3m a year but I believe was able to get here as ticket prices went up for games and merchandise for a school like that in the northwest went wild.

    I even bet they have some tv right money with fox sport northwest.

    I think being in Indiana and big ten country hurts paying the butler coaches more than helps, since a place like Spokane and Gonzaga can easily over take Oregon and Washington and even Boise state when it comes to basketball.


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    beezer16 likes this.
  17. znelson15

    znelson15 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,029
    Let me also say I have tried to go to Gonzaga basketball games and it’s easily over a hundred a ticket now for any home game


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  18. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,502
    I had no knowledge of this so if he has then I obviously have no idea what I’m talking about on this (true regardless) but it would take a tok of money to endow the position, though it’s indisputably ideal if they could.


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  19. tobystorrs

    tobystorrs New Member

    Money:
    $27
    That’s an interesting point that I hadn’t considered. Maybe being in Indy and the heart of Big10 country hurts more than it helps the ability to make the leap to a perennial top 10 or 25 program. There are certain unique characteristics of Butler that seem like they might allow it to make the leap to a perennial elite program. I can’t think of another school that checks the boxes like Butler. But maybe Gonzaga is one. And maybe it was even better positioned for the reason you stated. And I would say that at this point it is without question that they are one of the rare cases of a school that successfully made the leap. Are there any others who were not elite programs 30/40/50 years ago but who are now?
     
  20. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,502
    Duke?


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