$3MM Butler Head Coach's Salary

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by tobystorrs, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,704
    Wisconsin finished 3-3. Yes, they won their bowl over a Wake team that finished 4-5, so they finished 4-3, so I guess you can count that for IU. Still not impressive.

    IU reminds me of 2015 Iowa. That Iowa team went 12-0 in the regular season and their fans thought they were Alabama. Seriously... their crossover games were Indiana, Rutgers, and Maryland. They missed PSU, MSU, Michigan, and OSU, so they basically had to beat Wisconsin (which they did 10-6). They lose the Big Ten title to MSU and then got smashed by Stanford in the Rose Bowl once they finally played teams with a pulse.

    That’ll be IU going forward. Bad move. But hey... if that money keeps Miller there and their bball program mired in mediocrity, I’m all for it.
     
  2. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,847
    Wisconsin wasn’t a “bad” team, but it’s hard to call a team that couldn’t eclipse one touchdown in 3 of their last four games a “good” team.

    The reality is that even in Indiana’s best season in who knows how long, they were pretty clearly the fourth best team in the conference, and not particularly close to third.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  3. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,841
    I don’t think you’re getting how little a million dollars is in this context. Hell, IU had half a million in beer revenue in 2019. This barely has to move the needle versus a replacement level coach to be a good raise.

    I also disagree that regularly being 8-4 versus 4-8 wouldn’t have a drastic effect on attendance over time. That’s just demonstrably not true.
     
  4. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,841
    I checked four different metrics for college football last year (Football Outsiders, FPI, Sagarin, PowerRank), and each has IU third, behind Iowa and ahead of NU. So, this is confusing.

    And I don't think anyone is arguing against the obvious point that IU has historically been bad - awful, in fact. The point is that this year they weren't, and that should not be a controversial statement. Were they Playoff-level? No, but like 6 teams per year are (and it's generally the same teams). Were they a top 25 team? Yes. And if you can take a program from the cellar to the top 25, it's hard to imagine you're not a good coach who at a minimum deserves league-middling pay.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
    pjohnsto2003 likes this.
  5. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,847
    Yeah, Northwestern lost to Michigan State and had a bad offense, and their offensive style is to grind out yards on the ground. Margin of vicinity is going to inherently take a hit when you’re a running offense versus a passing offense as IU was. The bad loss and the style they play means they are going to get docked on efficiency metrics-especially in a shortened season. They also had the best win in the conference of anyone outside of Ohio State, fewer losses, the best defense in the country (S&p+)

    Most of those ratings also had them behind or just about equal to Auburn, who they blew out in their bowl game, behind Wisconsin and far behind iowa. It’s hard to create compelling case for legitimacy of rankings when you go 3-1 and outscored opponents ranked equal to or above you 83-68.

    It’s actually quite similar to Butler in 2011. They finished the season 36 in Kenpom. Is *anyone* going to argue that they were the 36th best team that year? As a whole, these sorts of ratings are excellent predictors. There are occasional instances where they don’t accurately depict things.

    At some point, you have to look at the results on the field-and if you do that there’s simply not a case to be made that IU was really that close to Northwestern.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  6. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,841
    You're smarter than this, but fandom gonna fandom.
     
  7. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,704
    Last years Northwestern team was miles better than IU. IU gets a lot of credit for a close loss to OSU, but they were mediocre at best.

    Also, as for the money, wasn’t it 1M per year for the next 5 or 6? That’s 5-6M. Apparently it costs 10M to fire Miller, so that’s 50-60% of what is needed to get that done. That’s not unsubstantial...
     
    johnhardingftw likes this.
  8. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,841
    If you’re going to count the total cost over 5 years you have to count the potential impact on total revenue over 5 years, too. Looking at one year keeps it simpler. Either way, a million per year or five million over five years is incredibly small relative to the financial upside of big ten football.

    IU does about 6.5 million in football ticket revenue per year. Half the conference does 20 million+. Heck, Minnesota - Minnesota! - did 9.4 in 2019 when they had a good year; and do you know how small and cold TCF Bank Stadium is? Smaller and colder than Memorial.

    Is IU going to do 30 million+ like Michigan? Of course not. Can they do 10M a year if they are more like last year and less like they’ve been in the past? Yes. That would still be bad relative to the big ten, but a whole lot less bad. And of course this doesn’t account for the potential impact on donations, licensing, food and drink revenue, etc. One million is an inconsequentially small gamble relative to the size of big ten football revenue.

    I mean, they put up 500 yards against a team that was probably the second best in the country, and until their bowl game, they beat everyone else. They weren’t great, but they were solid, and it’s just silly and emotional to argue they were significantly inferior to Northwestern. I really don’t care about college football for a lot of reasons, and I care even less about IU. But it’s suspect to ask someone to defer to your feelings/gut/eye test.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
    2xDawg likes this.
  9. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,704
    That’s all fair ^^

    But we have very different ideas as to what IU’s revenue will be. Once PSU is it’s normal self and Michigan is back to its normal 3rd place in the Big Ten East and MSU is rebuilt, IU will be back to hoping for 6-6 or 7-5 seasons (4 losses in the East, a crossover loss to Wisky, Iowa and UNL if Frost ever gets it going), and one somewhere else along the way, and the fans will be as apathetic as they have been the last 30+ years.

    Revenue flat but increase in costs is not a good deal.

    But Allen is a good football coach in general and the best IU is going to get, but he also benefitted from an anomaly with extenuating circumstances.

    And yes... NU beats IU. (And I don’t care at all about NU football...)
     
  10. WDLTH

    WDLTH Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $110
    Is UK a decent comparison when looking at potential football sales compared to the product on the field? I know they haven't been as bad as IU, but they've had a little uptick the last few years, but are still never going to be top of the SEC. They did $13.9M in football ticket sales in FY19 and $15.3 in FY20.
     
  11. the_speakers_lab

    the_speakers_lab Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,308
    Next season, iufb will be back to playing 3 nobodies in the non-con and hoping to win 3 conference games so they can be 6-6 in order to go to the pizza bowl, hat bowl, oil change bowl, etc. Maybe then, they can play some MAC, WAC, SWAC team to end its 30+ year bowl losing streak!!! Other things of normalcy to expect: the IU Star gassing up the football team beyond belief after beating said 3 non-con nobodies. IU fb sucking on the road. The O$U fans taking over Memorial Stadium. The tailgating lot to be legendary, the tailgaters leaving the lot to go to Kilroy's instead of the actual game, IU football fans caring more about ND football. Feel free to insert more...
     
  12. Staxawax

    Staxawax Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,240
    Hate much? IU opens their season against Cincinnati. Wow, what a nobody.


    Sent from my iPad using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
  13. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,704
    If Ridder and Fickell are still there, IU is starting 0-1
     
    dawgsrock likes this.
  14. the_speakers_lab

    the_speakers_lab Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,308
    Double bummer. Charleston Southern University's AD could really use that buy game money and starting 0-1 isn't optimal
     
  15. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,841
    It’s definitely not a certainty that their revenue goes up and if it doesn’t, clearly this was a bad move. But there’s a clear possibility of bumping revenue by 5-10 million dollars per year with Allen, and that’s without doing anything extraordinary - as referenced above, they’re in the cellar revenue-wise; even staying well below average could mean a huge $$$ increase. So even if there’s only a 10-20% probability of a 5-10M bump that happening, a 1 million dollar bump is still a +EV move.
     
  16. tlp63

    tlp63 Active Member

    Money:
    $218
    Can we return to the topic of the thread title? Do we need a thread for IU football?
     
  17. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $8,562
    Maybe we just get rid of this thread altogether? ;)
     
    2xDawg likes this.
  18. pjohnsto2003

    pjohnsto2003 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $8,343
    You mean with the training staff?


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  19. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $8,562
    Your sarcasm font was missing! haha
     
    pjohnsto2003 likes this.
  20. troggy

    troggy Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,012
    No argument, although it's also true that Michigan, Penn State and MSU were all awful this past season. Wisconsin wasn't very good either. Only time will tell if IU can parlay this past season into anything better than being a one year wonder.
     
    dawgs2014 likes this.

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