An Apology to LaVall Jordan

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by CarmelDawg23, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. CarmelDawg23

    CarmelDawg23 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,007
    I created a thread on here a couple of years ago questioning if LaVall Jordan was the right fit to coach this team and whether he was capable of being a HC at a Power 6 program. I remember many of you saying that it was too early to question this and that he needed some time in the role before a fair assessment could be made. Even after that, I fully admit I had some doubts and really questioned him.

    Today though, I am here to issue an apology to LaVall Jordan. He was thrown into the fire at a very unenviable time for any HC, let alone one at a prominent D1 program like Butler. Now that he has had a few years to really dig in and begin to mold this program in his way, I can fully admit he's doing a great job. This comes on the heels of pulling in his 2nd 4* recruit in less than a week and putting the cherry on top of the greatest recruiting class Butler has ever seen. Aside from pulling in a monster class, LaVall Jordan:

    -Landed a top 100 prospect last year in Khalif Battle
    -Identified 100% certified gems in Jaxson Hayes and Aaron Henry, only to have snake coaches swoop in and land these kids after LJ did all the dirty work as the first power program HC to give them offers
    -Landed 3 quality transfers with Tucker, Nze, and Smits
    -Brought in a local 2021 commit with a ton of upside, squashing any potential for him to (very feasibly) blow up and have all the vultures circling with offers (looking at you Steele, Miller, Boltmann, and Painter)
    -Overhaul the landscape of the recruitment process, tracking kids years ahead of their graduating class, something we weren't ever accustom to before him

    I don't know if LJ will ever see this, and honestly, it doesn't matter. He deserves a "my bad" and an "I'm sorry" from me (and let's be real, some other people on this forum too). Keep it up LJ...you made me a believer!!
     
  2. Bulldogs260

    Bulldogs260 Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    Respect! Go dawgs


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    jeff likes this.
  3. kac12568

    kac12568 Well-Known Member

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    I respect anyone that can admit when they have made a mistake.

    Coach can recruit with the best of them, in my opinion. However LaVall, like Brad when he first started, has work to do to improve as a coach. I am looking forward to seeing him work with the young men that fit with the style of play he wants to implement. We have seen a great recruiter south of Indianapolis, but "The Clapper" didn't see positive results on the court. My expectations aren't for a National Championship this year, but I want to see us be competitive during the first 10 minutes of each game. We put ourselves in such deep holes that it was difficult to win games. We squeaked out a few large comebacks, but if we had started each game with a purpose, who knows what we could have achieved.

    Go Dawgs!!
     
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  4. SpartanDawgs

    SpartanDawgs Well-Known Member

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    We still hasn't won games yet. We knew he was going to be able to recruit and possibly develop... Hopefully this translates to wins and start becoming a regular in march madness every year again. It is super exciting that he's getting "his guys" in the system now
     
    kac12568 likes this.
  5. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I was pretty hard on you for starting that thread @CarmelDawg23. Glad to see you're up for owning your earlier comments and appreciate you starting this thread.

    I've said all along that I believe you give a coach at least three years - barring some kind of disaster far worse than we have seen in two .500 seasons - and I think this 2020 recruiting class buys LJ at least a fourth year unless something crazy happens.
     
    BHayden, SpartanDawgs, Shimmy and 2 others like this.
  6. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    LaVall is recruiting at a high level right now for where this program is at, and is doing it as well as anybody ever has.

    Here's hoping better talent and players more apt for his system leads to better results.

    However, he still needs to improve as an actual in-game coach. Recruiting is only half the battle, but I'm cautiously optimistic he can improve there as a young head coach.
     
    2xDawg likes this.
  7. Bulldogs260

    Bulldogs260 Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    One thing I was worried about when the Michigan rumors were going around was if Lavall could recruit the talent he liked to butler. It seems that he has no problem doing that on only his true 2 offseason. I was worried not being able to get high talent to butler would be a turn off to him and maybe he considered else where. Lavall is getting Verbals from kids the whole country except maybe duke/ Kentucky wouldn’t want. Great Job coach I think he will be here awhile!


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  8. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    LaVall guaranteed himself a fourth year before his third season started. If the 2020 class was bad, and Butler under-performed again in 2019-2020, the seat gets warm (it's likely he'd have gotten a fourth year anyway, but not guaranteed). But at this point, no matter how this season goes, LaVall is the coach in 2020-2021. You have to let him try to win with his guys when his guys are at the level they are.

    Here's to hoping Juwan Howard is good enough to keep his job in AA for a long time.
     
  9. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
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    Hopefully this will end any chatter calling for LJ's head for time being. Production in the form of wins will be the key moving forward, but he has certainly bought some additional time.
     
  10. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    You do need to worry that another Power Conferenc school will notice his abilities and coming hunting for him when their coach gets sent down the chute - it's going to be expensive, but BU will need to write him a nice sized check to assure we keep him here. I don't know how the formula works in the Fox TV deal, but with UCONN coming into the mix next year and the BigEast's continuing good performence in pulling ratings, I assume TV revenues will rise which helps open the wallet a bit more.
     
    MBA2003 likes this.
  11. ButlerGoalie

    ButlerGoalie Well-Known Member

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    I will say look at UM and Harbaugh. As a former Michigander, we don’t shy away from turning on our own in a flash. So if Juwan falter and LJ is able to convert the recruiting success to on-court success, uh oh. Michigan is the only program that I think could poach LJ


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    Sidd Finch likes this.
  12. butlerdude05

    butlerdude05 Active Member

    Money:
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    What a crazy couple of months it has been since some people on this board wanted him gone. This summer should confirm how important relationships (over time) are to recruits. I'm still not sold on this upcoming season (looking at you D Smits and the C position), but hoping the recruiting success is going to lead to on-court success. If it does, it's fun to dream what type of talent LJ could land then if hes landing this type of talent with his coaching career so far.

    I agree Michigan is really the only program that scares me to lure him away and the timing of their opening was incredibly fortunate for Butler since LJ didnt have recruiting momentum yet or on court success, but we know programs double and triple circle back around for candidates they want. UM has plenty of money they could offer in the future if LJ continues to have recruiting/on court success and something happens with Howard at UM. But we can worry about that again if that ever happens and enjoy what's happening at Butler in the meantime :)

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  13. SnoopDawg

    SnoopDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    I also owe him a my bad. Keep up the good work LJ!
     
  14. Sidd Finch

    Sidd Finch Well-Known Member

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    I never doubted LJ's recruiting abilities. To me, that seemed like a relatively easy call. Didn't think he'd do anything approaching what he did with the 2020 class (at least not this soon), but I was confident recruiting would be a strength for him. I still have some concerns about in-game decisions, but LJ is a young head coach and I assume that will get better with experience. Having better talent also tends to help make in-game decisions look better.

    All you people now gushing about LaVall, keep in mind this 2020 class won't play a minute this season and will be freshmen the following season.
     
  15. Baddog

    Baddog Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    LaVall is a great guy. A Butler man. Very, very likable. Who doesn't like LaVall. With a couple of years under his belt as a HC he has brought in one hell of a nice recruiting class for next year. Kudos to him and his staff for a fine job. Looking forward to seeing these guys take the court in Butler blue and white in the near future. Still, I have been critical of his coaching and game preparation and game management in his first two years. IMO, both of his Butler teams have underachieved. The "well he just didn't have the right players for his system" excuse is total BS. The talent level on both rosters (while not exceptional) still exceeded the records yielded and the undisciplined and underachieving performance on the court. You coach and prepare to the talent you have on hand to maximize their strengths, and not try to put a square peg in a round hole. If LaVall wants to play an up tempo, break your man down offense.....I have no problem with it. With the right talent. But that offense certainly was not suited for these past two rosters (anyone want to see Kamar dribble and dribble and dribble again?) I'm not going to apologize for being critical of his coaching. It sucked. (Note: losing record, last place in a down year Big East). I like LaVall. I hope LaVall is around for a long time. Hope he is successful. Definitely hope he has grown as a HC. Obviously he can recruit. Tough schedule. Going to be an interesting season on the coaching front and seeing if the growth in that area has risen to the recruitment level.
     
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  16. Bulldogs260

    Bulldogs260 Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    Why is that excuse BS? I think for that system a certain style of players are required for it to be really good. His first season was under achieving? Dominated Arkansas and ran into a solid Purdue team with good seniors and were a possession away from winning? If you want to look at regular season we knocked off villanova and played well at Home.


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  17. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,156
    Butler's basketball budget will get a nice bump upon the renegotiation of the Fox deal, and the number of schools that have the ability to poach its coaches will get smaller and smaller. Heck, it's already gotten to a pretty small number. I really think there were only 10-15 schools who could've taken Holtmann away (consider that NC State and Tennessee couldn't get it done). But there will always be certain schools with the means to steal Butler's coaches. The key is getting the number who can do so as small as possible.
     
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  18. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    Agree, but there are programs, like Texas, who could make it very hard to ignore the dollars they can command.
     
  19. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,156
    That's what I'm saying... No matter how big the budget gets, there will always be programs with so much money it doesn't matter how big Butler's budget gets. Texas, of course, will always be one of them.
     
  20. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,717
    LJ's 1st season was not bad. Did BU overachieve? Probably not. Considering the timing, LJ made the most of the hand he was dealt overall. BU won it 1st game in the BE tourney along with a win in the big dance. Last season began well enough, but some where along the line team chemistry appeared to go haywire. The end to the season was dismal. No questioning that. LJ can take the blame, but it was not totally on him. He was limited in his options. Gushing over his recruiting is not gushing over his coaching. That remains to be seen.
     
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