Assistant Coach Opening

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by BigHoss, Feb 14, 2021.

  1. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    You’ve glamorized Will’s resume a bit. He’s been in coaching (I wouldn’t count grad manager, etc) since ‘12-13 season. The AC spots were one year at a DII program and one year at Milwaukee. Otherwise DOBO or analyst until pressed into service as an AC due to Meyer’s sudden departure. I like Will just fine but his contribution would be better served as an analyst or DOBO or some hybrid thereof. Have you seen or heard something more that would justify him being named a full fledged AC under our current situation?
     
  2. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Buddy, if AOC had a crush on me that would be the dopest thing ever.




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  3. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    LaVall/his staffs to date have not proven to be effective at defensive efficiency. In four years, the best defense has been 42nd. LaVall is (evidently) not a very good defensive coach. His offense can be really effective. His intangibles are great. His recruiting is good. His defense just isn’t there. That’s ok. You don’t have to be great at everything to be a great coach (Brad wasn’t an exceptionally great offensive coach). That’s why you have a staff.

    In a perfect world, this hire would be defensive oriented. A good defensive assistant can be transformative for a coach and a program - just look at Belein’s defenses before and after hiring Luke Yaklich. It was night and day.

    I doubt this is what will happen. But that’s what should happen.


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    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
  4. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I'm not inflating his resume, but it's fine with me if you take away the two grad assistant years. You do the same for Kampen and he was even more inexperienced in the year he got bumped up to interim and then moved back to DOBO, which was all my point was is that Vergollo and Kampen are at different points in their careers when this interim AC year happened. I don't have any inside information. It's just my perception that LJ wouldn't demote him. If it's not working, I could see him leaving to be an AC at a low- or mid-major, but I couldn't see him going back to an administrative role.

    I'd absolutely love to see a highly experienced assistant coach join the Butler staff, preferably even someone with some of their own head coaching experience. I just don't see the opening unless one of the current coaches leaves.

    On a sidenote, I've been a little amused thinking back to LJ's first year and several folks on here complaining consistently about Coach Lowery and now he's viewed as one of the better up-and-comers in the high major ranks.
     
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  5. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

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    Idk, I'm still struggling a little bit to understand why you'd bring up each of their results if you weren't trying to at least partially compare them. But maybe I'm not smart enough after all.
     
  6. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    If I said that the 2010-2011 Chicago Bulls went 62-20 and that the 1997-1998 Chicago Bulls also went 62-20, am I comparing Tom Thiboddeau to Phil freaking Jackson?

    What is true is that if someone said in 2011 about the Bulls, “this is the best record the bulls have ever had” we could prove that statement to be objectively false.

    It’s the same in this instance. We can also prove the thesis that “what we’ve seen under Lavall is not Butler basketball” to be objectively false from a results standpoint. We can also easily do that while agreeing that Lavall is not as good of a coach as Brad.


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    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
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  7. BulldogsFTW

    BulldogsFTW Well-Known Member

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    Agree with all of this. It's not a coincidence that Terry Johnson has helped Holt coach up a heck of a defense at OSU. The current staff just isn't very good defensively, despite at times having some pretty decent defensive talent. We just haven't been crisp defensively since Holt left.
     
  8. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    There is room for differing opinions here, but so often our opinions here are based on flawed pretenses.

    If you want to believe that Lavall is a bad coach, go ahead. But if you want to believe that Lavall is a bad coach because we’re playing worse under him than anyone else in recent memory, that’s objectively false. That’s the point I was looking to prove.

    To me, Lavall is not as good as Brad, he’s not as good as Holtmann. But that just means he’s not a top 10-15 coach in college basketball. That’s *all* that statement says.

    I don’t think not being a top 10-15 coach in college basketball is a fireable offense.


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  9. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I’d love to see a top flight AC as well. Which is why realistically you can’t leave the AC tag on Will. There’s a perfect opportunity with a real AC spot (Meyer’s) open to tweak the bench in a meaningful way. Just a guess, but great chance Will’s “promotion” was in name only. To bring in a proven AC, they need Meyer’s salary+. In a year that they are literally losing millions, they have to use some creative accounting. You just can’t promote someone who only filled the role due to unforeseen circumstances.

    I don’t remember consistent complaints about about Omar except very early disappointment around recruits from his region that we lost out on—probably too optimistic on our end. My “fear” would be he leaves (no reason to believe that now) and Will moves up.
     
  10. Tiles52

    Tiles52 Well-Known Member

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    Help me out here; where/when has LJ said that it's just a lack of effort by the players. In most articles I have read, he has generally put it back on himself.
     
  11. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Saturday he said the effort was disappointing.

    Which some people have extrapolated to mean he can’t get his players to play hard, even though the one consistently praised thing this year from the people on this board has been the effort.

    Clunkers happen almost every year. This year most of the team is new. It’s not surprising it’s happening more often.


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  12. Tiles52

    Tiles52 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! There have been a number of coaches who have cited a lack of effort in a particular game this season, e.g., Archie Miller and Matt Painter to name a couple; however, none of them including LJ have cited lack of effort being a consistent cause of concern over the course of the season.
     
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  13. Baddog

    Baddog Well-Known Member

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    Where the hell have you been? See above for just one example. He's used that excuse in dozens of post game losses over the past 4 years. Our upperclassmen need to step up. Lack of leadership. Lack of effort. Our effort didn't match theirs. Fairly common theme with him. But you're right, he will put the blame back on himself too, mostly as a secondary cause for the losses. So give him credit, if he recognizes that the losses are on him as well, then where have been the adjustments and changes in his coaching and his approach? I remember him lamenting a couple of years ago that his team wasn't getting to the FT line (causing several losses). So where were/are the adjustments? Nothing changed in that regard. I would think if a coach really believed that he was responsible for this team losing he would be making some "needle-moving" adjustments. Ya' think? You hear the same crap from just about every coach after a loss.....you can blame me for this loss. Blah, blah, blah. Could care less about their fricking excuses. What matters is what we see on the court. So even though I agree with L.J. that in so many of the losses the effort from the players was lacking, I also believe that first and foremost the overall performance of the team is on him. That includes the effort, the game planning, the offense, the defense, the schemes, the sets, the rebounding......basically everything. And IMO, most of those elements suck in most games.
     
  14. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Baddog-I don't think you're a dumb guy but this post is highly hyperbolic.

    "He's used that excuse in dozens of post game losses over the past 4 years." We have 18 double digit losses to sub top 25 kenpom teams in the lavall era. These are what I'd consider "bad losses". While I can recall him occasionally saying opponents played with more effort in the past, we haven't even had enough bad losses for it to be "dozens" of times even if he said it every time. I'd guess its only a handful.

    "The upper classmen need to step up"-out of our six leading scorers, five are our upperclassmen. With the exception of Bo Hodges, every single one of them are scoring more than they did a year ago. They have stepped up. They simply don't have a superstar, or even a star. We're replacing an NBA player, and also the guy that was a significantly better player than the NBA player. That is just the reality of a rebuilding year.

    "He will put the blame on himself"-surely you watch enough sports to realize that this is the go to for coaches in press conferences in all sports and at every level (except for Jim Boylan) and means absolutely nothing, right? You even attest to this later in your post.

    "I remember him lamenting a couple of years ago that his team wasn't getting to the FT line (causing several losses)"-During the free throw line discussion in 2019 I posted a thread demonstrating zero correlation between offensive efficiency and ft rate. Its not what we are "taught" about basketball, but we also can't say that it has cost us games.

    "So where were/are the adjustments?" Go back to the St. Johns game and read all the praise for Lavall for his adjustments and riding the hot hand. You are welcome to believe he struggles making adjustments I (I think I actually agree with that), but this was a source of praise for him like three days ago.

    "I also believe that first and foremost the overall performance of the team is on him."-The performance of the program is not radically out of line with what was seen before Lavall. Holtmann's years are the exception,-with the same players Holtmann had, Lavall's team was just as good by computer rankings.



    Its not like your post has no basis in reality. -its just that almost all of your takes are like taking the reality of situation, putting it in a soda can and shaking up the soda can.

    Its a rebuilding year. All of these issues were predictable. If they continue we should by all means get concerned, but we've had a really rough year following any year where we lose our two best players, basically every time its happened. Each time though, we've figured it out over the following summer. Its okay to not like what you see, but it really just doesn't matter this year.
     
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  15. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes it just happens. When you have a lot of guys acclimating to college, new roles etc. it’s *hard* to stay locked in every single day.

    It’s *hard* to stay locked in when your shots aren’t falling. It’s easy to get dejected. Our shots are never falling so it take a LOT of mental toughness to stay engaged.

    It takes a lot of mental toughness to play really hard when no matter how hard you play, winning and losing are going to get you to the same place.

    This year is especially mentally and emotionally draining. I’m not excusing a lack of effort, but if it happens from time to time, I don’t think it’s an indictment of the coach or the players.


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  16. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I agree with Baddog. I also believe LJ will remain the coach in the near future. For a second time BU has managed to perform at the level most of the experts predicted. It's highly possible BU will not win another game. The unforeseen circumstances have caught up to this edition of BU basketball. As frustrating and disappointing as this is, it's also the truth of life in the BE. Coming to grips with how the season has transpired is a bitter pills to swallow for Butler nation. Still I have to hope better times are ahead of this program and if not changes will be made, but now is not that time.
     
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  17. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, completely on point.

    If things don’t change changes will be made. It’s not like we don’t have a logical explanation for what we’re seeing though.


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  18. IrishDawghouse

    IrishDawghouse Active Member

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    A season like this was bound to happen eventually with Butler’s recent coaching turnover. You can’t truthfully look at our roster this year and expect much better than what we are getting. We lack talent plain and simple, especially true offensive scorers. And since we don’t play spectacular defense either, this is the result. I’m not the biggest Lavall fan in the world but I will give him a fair chance until he at least gets a couple years with his classes (because he had success with Holt’s.)

    I know this has been said by some and it sounds bullish, but Butler just has too many guys on the roster right now that don’t cut it at this level. In the past, we’ve been able to overcome these types of players that don’t pan out because of the top heavy talent. But in a year like this we not only have to play them, but give them decent minutes too. Hopefully this isn’t the case in the coming years when Scooby and Coles get healthy, new classes come in, and we (fingers crossed) hit on a couple of transfers. If it is the case, then there should be some serious discussions that happen.


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  19. Clevedog

    Clevedog Well-Known Member

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    I read an article on my phone today that asked if Holt after a great year at OSU would leave for his dream job. The writer said that most likely Kentucky would be his dream job based on his roots. Later it was decided that for now he was happy with the team, the pay, and the climate at OSU, still realizing he is 2nd fiddle to Ryan Day. Some OSU folks still think he might leave for a better or more prestigious job. Find that unbelievable but I guess possible
     
  20. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member

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    When Kansas calls, he will be there in an instant.
     

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