Barry Collier contract extension through 2024

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by ButlerProf, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $787
    He also outproduced at New Mexico.

    I'm not even an Alford advocate for the record, but if we whiff on Jordan, you have to bring in someone who's actually proven they can win (and despite those that think we can land Tony Bennett apparently), he might be one of our best options.

    If we take a shot at another unproven and stink for another 4 years, you run the risk of becoming the next DePaul in the Big East, permanently. I think you have to at least get someone who can win a little bit and solidify the program again.

    However, we're not there yet, and as I originally stated, let's hope Jordan can actually right the ship here.
     
  2. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,589
    Why do you have to do bring in someone who’s proven if you whiff on Jordan? Just because one guy doesn’t work doesn’t mean the model is broken.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  3. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $787
    I already explained that because if you whiff, and have to wait another 3-4 years, after you already wasted 3-4 years on Jordan (in this scenario), you run the risk of becoming the new DePaul and never recovering in the Big East.
     
  4. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,013
    I agree, there has to be a legitimate coaching search if the move on from LaVall. Not just looking down the bench or someone who is "the butler way" blah blah. A real search to get a real talent will be needed if things keep slipping. We all hope that isn't the case, but the chances are pretty good from what we've seen that it very well could, and we can't lose this program to the abyss on a permanent basis. Crawling back up the ladder in the big east is a little more difficult than a down year in the Horizon was.

    As much as I don't believe LaVall will succeed long term at this level, my every hope is that this topic becomes moot and he proves any of us that are worried, dead wrong.
     
    Hinkle Magic2 likes this.
  5. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,589
    On the contrary, the way they’ve done it has produced unparalleled success for a school similar to ours, so just because you don’t have the success you want with one hire, doesn’t mean you should get away from what you do well.

    Maybe the success was a fluke, maybe the failures were, but one was.




    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
    ConnersvilleBulldog likes this.
  6. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $787
    Except in this scenario, it would be at least two hires that flopped using the unproven route: Brandon Miller and LaVall Jordan.

    Love him or hate him, if Holtmann hadn't solidified this program when he came in as interim head coach, this program could very well be in shambles. That had nothing to do with Butler's normal way of hiring, it was a little bit of luck and right guy, right place at right time--when he took over for Miller.
     
  7. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $787
    I've never understood why we elect to limit our candidate pool so much by insisting on a "Butler guy". Other high end coaching candidates could pick up "The Butler Way" pretty quick, if they didn't know what it was already.

    Unfortunately, the top "Butler Way coaching candidates" (with the exception of Matta) would be a bunch of unprovens like Ron Nored, Shrewsberry (if he'd leave Boston, who I actually think would be good), and Michael Lewis.

    However, I'm really hoping Jordan can right the ship as noted. He has at least one year to do it, maybe even two.
     
  8. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,589
    We don’t know what Miller would have done. I’ve heard some REALLY good things about him but we just don’t know.


    We have won games with culture, not talent. That’s why the butler connections are so important. They’ve already had the tryout to carry that culture forwards.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
    ButlerProf likes this.
  9. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $787
    It was still a bad hire. It's judged by the end result. The end result wasn't good.

    It's no different than holding a GM accountable for a prospect who never made it because of injury. It's still a bad pick.

    No one's saying culture is not important. However, I think if you're a good coach and human, you can learn a culture pretty quickly. Holtmann was only an assistant for one year here and learned it. "The Butler way" is overplayed.
     
    willisbrown likes this.
  10. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,013
    The Butler way is cute. It's outplayed and IF Holtmann doesn't fall into our laps, the butler way would never be spoken of anymore as it would represent poor basketball.

    Sometimes you need to step your game up to stave off failure. I think we are at the end of the "butler" line if this hiring continues to flop. Barry has to seek outside the box coaches...and there are plenty. Again, we all hope it doesn't come to it, but it very well may and if it does, it's time to switch things up from the norm.
     
    jkcdawgs likes this.
  11. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,165
    Agree, if LJ doesn't get it done let's move on from the "kid brother" BU coaching cycle. None of the Final Four coaches went to their schools. Brad & Bolt didn't go to BU. Jay Wright didn't go to Nova, Wojo didn't go to Marquette, etc. Let's grow up already.

    I'm not a Bruce Pearl fan, but it's undeniable what a name brand coach can do for a program.
     
    dippper61 and willisbrown like this.
  12. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,400
    Beard was not a name brand when he went to UALR.
     
  13. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,165
    The point is let's have a national coaching search. It's time...yet it probably won't happen under Barry.
     
    dippper61 and willisbrown like this.
  14. BulldogsAllTheWay

    BulldogsAllTheWay Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $574
    Uhhh yeah not true.
     
    estar20dawg likes this.
  15. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $787
    For some reason, I completely forgot he coached under Knight and thought he was just a Texas guy. I'll take the L on that one.
     
  16. BulldogsAllTheWay

    BulldogsAllTheWay Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $574
    I love that we're hypothetically discussing a national coaching search when I'd bet my lunch money Butler won't be searching for a coach for a long time.
     
  17. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $6,816
    My pick when Holt left was Shrewsberry. Regardless of whether LaVall gets things rolling, I’ll always wonder what he could’ve done. It’s hard to imagine the value being Stevens’ right hand man for so long brings to your coaching acumen. He is also an Indiana (and Indianapolis) guy through and through.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
    willisbrown likes this.
  18. Red1972

    Red1972 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,043
    I was always told that an athletic director should have three note cards in his top desk drawer with names to call when replacing a football or basketball coach.
     
  19. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,165
    This isn't hypothetical. It's the same discussion we had after Brandon was hired less than a week after Brad left.
     
  20. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,013
    The only reason you would keep your lunch money is if Barry doesn't have the stones to can LaVall. Which, I can unfortunately see. Way too many factors that would cause people to lose their minds. But, we have seen nothing that screams or even talks to us he can control a team/sideline as a top tier conference coach. He needs a mass amount of talent to play his style and survive tough games, where the talent can out duel the coaching. We have seen nothing to prove he can do that. Now, here we stand, two openings, maybe more, where he can very much make over this roster with a couple of impact signings...if he fails to do so, there is literally no reason to have hope we'll see much more than we did this year.

    Butler has trended downward since Holt left. You can't argue that. They underachieved in 2017-2018 and flopped like a dying fish last season. If that trajectory keeps up in 2019-2020, there has to be a move made and a real, national coaching search. Big time programs make tough, big time moves. Butler has yet to show that even with their move into the Big East. It's time to see it if this keeps up. With that schedule next season and a meh roster...lord have mercy it's going to be ugly unless LJ can pull a couple monster sized rabbits out of the hat in the transfer market. Otherwise we're a .500 or worse team again in 2019-2020. Bank it.
     
    Baddog and dippper61 like this.

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