Beilein to Cleveland

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by ButlerGoalie, May 13, 2019.

  1. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,706
    Seeing that our beat writer gets all his information from here, probably not from him. Maybe the michigan news.
     
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  2. Daddysmack

    Daddysmack Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $347
    This is a weird write up on possible candidates

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/gbmwol...sketball-make-early-head-coaching-rumors/amp/

    Actually says in there......

    "LaVall Jordan is another name, but his buyout at Butler could be hard to get around and might end up being a sticking point."

    M has tons of money, and how big could his buyout possibly be that it could be a sticking point. Any clue what it actually is?
     
  3. Pick n Roll Dawgs

    Pick n Roll Dawgs Active Member

    Money:
    $384
    If it’s a decent amount or big would Michigan really buyout for a coach who just went 16-17? I doubt it


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  4. BU4lyfe

    BU4lyfe Member

    Money:
    $55
    If anyone had real information though before I go to sleep, THAT WOULD BE GREAT


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  5. fdr

    fdr Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,490
    I've seen multiple people refer to Michigan as a "top 15" job in college basketball. I don't necessarily dispute this, it's just wild to me how much the perception of that program has changed since Beilein came to Ann Arbor. From 1995-2008, Michigan won a grand total of *one* NCAA tournament game. They were a middling team in the Big 10 for most of that time. Before 2012, they hadn't won a Big 10 regular season championship since 1986 (!!!). It's crazy what he did in just over 10 years.
     
    Crash likes this.
  6. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,035
    That’s fine, but then your client in this case isn’t getting the job and is staying at a crappy job making 33% as much money. That’s how leverage works.

    I’d advise him to sign.
     
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  7. Crash

    Crash Active Member

    Money:
    $257
    In theory great, but in reality, it doesn't work. Play it out in real time.
    BC - We want LaVall to be our coach, we are offering $1.7MM/yr with an $8MM buyout.
    Agent - $8MM? If you are going to have an $8MM buyout, you need to offset his potential earnings lost by increasing his comp to $4MM/yr
    BC - Can't do that, I don't have that type of budget. What does LaVall lose?
    Agent - So, you want my client to be locked into a position without any negotiating power. If he does well, you have no motivation to increase his salary. If he does well and another programs want to pay him substantially more, they will have little or no interest due to the buyout.
    BC - Yes, this is what I'm saying
    ***
    If you can find a coach & agent that will accept this offer, you are hiring a loser.
    Barry recouped $2.5MM on Holtmann from The Ohio St. That is fair and viable.
    Take it as a compliment Barry hires coaches that are poached. Better, than if he was firing coaches ever 4-6 years.
     
  8. DuckOnAModerator

    DuckOnAModerator Active Member

    Money:
    $48
    This right here isn’t Barry’s fault. Butler is what it is and losing coaches will continue to go with the territory without an influx of money. Villanova pays for Jay Wright and Gonzaga pays for Mark Few...


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  9. DuckOnAModerator

    DuckOnAModerator Active Member

    Money:
    $48
    So my photo didn’t work... but just a reminder Villanova’s basketball budget is nearly $14.8M/ year. Butler’s is $5.5M. The school needs to act like a major program if they want to be treated like one by coaches.


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  10. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $6,270
    I would dispute that it's top 15. Given the history, recent success and available money (thanks to football), I would say it's top 25.

    FWIW, I put Butler somewhere in the top 30 to 40 CBB jobs and find it frustrating as hell to watch the Michigans and Ohio States poaching Bulldog coaches. The only thing that keeps Butler from being a top 25 job, imo, is its inability to compete on salary with those schools higher on the ladder.
     
  11. DuckOnAModerator

    DuckOnAModerator Active Member

    Money:
    $48
    Salary, facilities, university commitment, assistant coaches, alumni base........


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  12. DuckOnAModerator

    DuckOnAModerator Active Member

    Money:
    $48
    This goes way above Barry’s head... if the school wanted to fund basketball, they could have. Instead the school chose to build a new business school building. One which they have yet to be able to find a donor for the naming rights... Only $20 mil. Maybe we could have the Bumba School of Business and it would solve several problems?


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  13. firedupkaren

    firedupkaren Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,961
    Again, Barry Collier does not decide the budget of the university.
     
  14. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $792
    I'm curious why some rank Michigan so low?

    Behind the bluebloods, Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, I think it's right there with anyone.

    Great school. Supportive fan base. Strong alumni.
     
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  15. Dawgedd

    Dawgedd Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,193
    One interesting hypothetical—what would an initial offer from Michigan to LaVall look like? Not sure it will be that high since I think LaValls current salary is likely somewhere around a million. Butler likely could match at the outset (of course Michigan could eventually outbid). But Butler was on track to give Holtmann >2 mil I believe.


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  16. Crash

    Crash Active Member

    Money:
    $257
    Butler's basketball budget ranked 87th in '17, last in the Big East. I love Butler. I think Hinkle fieldhouse is awesome. But other than a 2 year run of Final Fours, how would you put Butler in the top 30 CBB jobs? Top 30-40 programs, yes. Jobs, No way! Money is low, facilities are bad, alumni are poor (endowment), fan base is good and without football, we are not branding our name 24/7.

    Where would I rank us? 51-53. I didn't even include teams that have recently hired big names or have history - Mississippi St (Ben Howland), Wake Forrest, TCU (Jamie Dixon), West Virginia, Oklahoma St, Houston (Kelvin Sampson), and many others. I'm not trying to rain on our parade, but we have to be real with ourselves. Based on our Budget, we ABSOLUTELY "outkick our coverage" regarding recent historical results.
     
  17. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,464
    Barry has the leverage because he holds the job offer. There would be good candidates that want to coach at BU long term.

    The contract language would just formalize the expectation it's a long term commitment. If the candidate doesn't want to sign our deal, then it's a red flag they aren't a long term BU candidate. Sooner or later protecting the university has to be a bigger priority or this instability will never end.

    There could also be performance bonuses included to offset the inability to leave. No one is saying you can't deserve & get a raise if you further the program's success. Language is negotiable for the right long term coach.
     
  18. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $6,270
    Once you get passed the so-called blue bloods, of which there are six (Kentucky, Carolina, Duke, Kansas, UCLA, Indiana), you only have nine spots to round out a "Top 15." To me there are a handful of schools that clearly slot in that nine - Louisville, Villanova, Syracuse, Michigan State, Connecticut, Arizona - and then about a dozen or so schools you can argue over for those last three spots, including OSU, Florida, Maryland, Virginia, Georgetown, Michigan, Stanford, Texas, NC State, Arkansas, Gonzaga, Oregon and Cincinnati.

    Michigan has been really good under Beilein and has a lot of positives, the biggest of which is that fat budget, but it's still a football first school and arguably only the fourth or fifth best job in its own conference. I would put Indiana, MSU and Maryland ahead of OSU and Michigan.
     
  19. thebulldogs

    thebulldogs Active Member

    Money:
    $230
    Regardless of the Harris commit, I wont breathe easy until LJ gives us a reason to do so. If he's not interested/pursuing, you think he would have squashed all speculation by now.

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  20. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $6,270
    I think you might have misunderstood my post. I put Butler somewhere in the 30-40 range with the biggest constraint being its modest budget.

    Hinkle is a better facility than most programs could dream of. It amazes me how much people here **** on it. Hinkle blows the doors off Cameron Indoor, the Dean Dome, and Assembly Hall. What Butler hasn't done effectively, yet, is cultivate the kind of game day environment those places have. And that mostly comes with winning consistently at this higher level that Butler has only been playing in for a half dozen or so years.

    It's also still a job at a basketball-first high major. That counts for a lot.

    Are there things Butler can and should improve? Absolutely. Budget is one, particularly for assistant coaches. I think a practice facility is two. But there is a lot that makes the job desirable and if Butler's coaching changes would happen on a more typical schedule, you would see a long line of coaches wanting this job.
     
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  21. Staxawax

    Staxawax Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,976
    You know a part of us expects UM to eventually settle for LJ and Harris decommits and heads for Ann Arbor.


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