Beilein to Cleveland

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by ButlerGoalie, May 13, 2019.

  1. Pick n Roll Dawgs

    Pick n Roll Dawgs Active Member

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  2. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

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    Agree, Howard would likely be a popular decision in state. The AD would need to find someone with an attractive HC record to unseat him as a favorite.

    On a different note, I don't see LJ as ready for that job. The randomness of substitutions and lineups last year makes me think he's still learning his craft. I do hope he stays at Butler, but also think we can do better if he decides to leave. I also get it could be a good move for his family.
     
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  3. ap234

    ap234 Member

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    I would think those would be Yaklich, Howard, Cooley, and LJ.
     
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  4. mizebl

    mizebl Active Member

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    You are correct (IMO). This almost looks like a baked in process. I can understand and respect assistant coaches getting an interview (and this is where LaVall is lumped in), but if your other serious interview is Ed Cooley.....come on. Not hating because I think he is a stand up guy, but he has 1, seriously, 1 NCAA tournament win in 7 yrs at Providence. If UofM can produce this anemic of a coaching candidate list (based on who we currently think we are seeing) really gives you an appreciation as to how hard it is to land a proven head coach. If I am Providence right now, I am scared ****less with only a $2M buyout and knowing what kind of market you are dealing with for replacements.
     
  5. Pick n Roll Dawgs

    Pick n Roll Dawgs Active Member

    Money:
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    Yes I agree with you on providence being scared! They should be more than us just off the fact I think Ed Cooley is hell of a coach.


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  6. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    That is a pretty small buyout for a coach who has done very well with you...interesting. I think apples to apples, comparing LaVall to Cooley is a landslide in Cooley's favor. But it's not apples to apples with LaVall's history at Michigan and unproven yet former super star of yesteryear, Howard. I still can't believe it's only come to this and that this AD cannot gain traction with a top 15-20 coach. I'm still of the opinion I don't care the time of year, it's Michigan. He should be able to lure better.

    But, doesn't seem to be the case. And although I respect Cooley very much as a coach, he still doesn't blow your skirt up enough to squash the star power of Howard. IF it is those two and Howard, Howard should be feeling pretty good about coaching his alma mater.
     
  7. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    I think the fact that Cooley has been a HC a lot longer than LaVall (and as a result has several more tournament appearances) makes him a safer choice for an AD, and thus I think he could make things interesting if he wants to leave.

    But I think it's interesting you think he's better than LaVall by a "landslide." There's nothing to back that up. He's been the head coach at Providence for 8 seasons. We'll throw out his first season there, which was awful, because first seasons are tough and there's often not a lot a HC can do to salvage a transition. In the 7 seasons since, his average finish with Providence is 56 in Kenpom. He has never had a top 25 team - not once - and only one has been top-40 quality - ONE! This season was his third straight sub-60 team. As others have pointed out, he's won one tournament game. Ever. And this is all with some pretty solid recruiting.

    LaVall's first team at Butler was literally better than any Cooley team ever, and this past season's Butler team finished right around where each of the last three Cooley teams have finished up, and not much below his average there.

    So, it's fair to question how good LaVall really is at this point, but to be sure Cooley is better than him - let alone by a landslide - is just silliness.
     
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  8. TheDawgDub95

    TheDawgDub95 Well-Known Member

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    I think perspective is very interesting. Some consider Cooley a good coach, but if his resume was as a Butler coach for the last 7 years, he would be the worst, ever...

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  9. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    Head to head he owned LaVall badly this last year, so whether or not our finish was close to their finish etc...he made a mockery out of our bench this past season. I don't think they were that good, at all. Yet they crushed us. He's 4-1 against LaVall. Enough said for me. And they will be better this year (if he stays).

    And, I don't want to call a 21-14 LaVall team all that good and also, he had one of the better players in program history...and still managed to lose 14 games. Cooley>>LaVall. Maybe not in a few years, but right now, yes.
     
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  10. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    In 2016, Cooley had a fourth-year lottery pick playing alongside another NBA draft pick and finished 44th... So the Kelan excuse just goes nowhere, at least in comparing him and Cooley.

    If Michigan wants to choose one coach over another based on how those coaches' teams did playing each other, and not based on how they did in all the other games they played, they should just scrap their basketball program altogether.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
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  11. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    As I noted, right now Cooley is a better coach than LaVall and if I had the pick of the two, my opinion is that I'd take Cooley ten times out of ten and it's not close. If you disagree, that's fine. I think Cooley is more polished and a better bench coach. LaVall may get there. None of us know. He isn't there yet though, and based on results, he's not really that close. Plus Cooley just owned him on Bynum to rub salt in the wound.
     
  12. wazthree

    wazthree Well-Known Member

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    Cooley is above average, at best. LaVall already has the same amount of NCAAt wins. He is the Marvin Lewis of NCAA.


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  13. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    OK, well support your opinion with something other than your gut or your opinion isn't worth anything. Convince me. Do you think head-to-head match-ups are a better measure of coaching acumen than hundreds of other games they coach? If so, why? Why has Cooley's better bench strategy not resulted in more successful teams, considering the talent he's had? Why was he not better than 44th with Dunn and Bentil? Was LaVall's 2018 team more talented than Cooley's 2016 team? If not, and if Cooley is a better coach, how was Butler's 2018 team rated 24 spots better?
     
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  14. Pick n Roll Dawgs

    Pick n Roll Dawgs Active Member

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    I think in college basketball being a great coach cannot be a result of tournament wins. While I agree winning is the most important thing as a coach to whether there considered great or not. The tournament is a crazy thing and to get there is a great accomplishment more you win the Better. I think leadership and the way you can relate to your players is also characteristics of being like I said earlier a hell of a coach. I think you can check the box on Cooley for winning, relating to his players, X and Os, and also being a mentor. To me that’s way above what you said above average at best. College basketball isn’t just tournament wins.


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  15. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

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    A 5 game head to head sample is an odd measuring stick for the quality of a coach.
     
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  16. darnellarchey4three

    darnellarchey4three Member

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    They do both have a history of splitting their pants open during games. So there’s that.....


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  17. Dawgedd

    Dawgedd Well-Known Member

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    "Manuel was scheduled to speak with Providence head coach Ed Cooley about the job on Monday before interviewing Miami Heat assistant and former U-M star Juwan Howard on Tuesday. The source also said Manuel has talked with current Michigan assistants Luke Yaklich and Saddi Washington about the job."

    "At this time, it's unclear if or when current Butler coach LaVall Jordan, a former Michigan assistant, will interview with Manuel. Jordan had been on Michigan's candidate list"

    https://www.freep.com/story/sports/...tball-coaching-search-speeding-up/3745181002/
     
  18. Dawgedd

    Dawgedd Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if anyone else has knowledge, but this language surrounding LaVall seems to be more tentative than in a previous article in Freep. Not able to find it exactly but curious if anyone can confirm/deny.
     
  19. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Love that Cooley appears to be in the race. Ticks off the HC box that Manuel seemed to emphasized in the article. Seems to do things the right way and appears well respected by other coaches. Just 49. I think he leaps Vall in order. Just hope he wants the challenge of UM post Beilein.


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  20. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

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    That has to be encouraging, right? But still so confusing.

    What would have taken him off the list, if LJ was actually interested? Could they just really not like what he's done so far as a HC?
     
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