Big East Conversation

They've been competitive in a lot of games, but haven't been able to pull out many W's. I think part of the reason is that Jay Wright was just a better coach, but I also think the rest of the BE is has finally caught up with them talent-wise.

 

Seton Hall has completely flipped the script on DePaul as they’re on a 46-16 run. DePaul led 15-2 and now trails 48-31.


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With nothing to rehash for a few days thought I’d add that cheerleading is not a college sport and this falls under “looking for something to be offended by”.

 

It’s absolutely insane that it’s not. The consequences of it not being one is that some schools (butler used to) view it as a club, and thus the athletic department does not fund it.

It breaks my brain that the athletic department anywhere wouldn’t be the financial backers of cheerleading.


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My understanding is Butler’s and most schools’ cheer teams do not compete for anything or against anyone. In such cases, I can’t see how it would be a sport. If it were, then so too would being a mascot.

 

The mascot is part of the cheer program.

And while they don’t compete against anyone, their performances are (almost) exclusively at ncaa athletic events.

It’s not so much that them being considered a sport is definitely right, it’s that them not being a sport is definitely wrong.


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The only time I yell at anyone is at ncaa athletic events. Me yelling is obviously not a sport. The only time the officials blow their whistles is at ncaa athletic events. Their whistleblowing is obviously not a sport. The only time the concessions are open is during NCAA athletic events. You get the idea.

Support for or presence at an athletic event can’t make something an athletic event without some absurd conclusions about what is a “sport” when taken to its logical end.

Competition, on the other hand, is fundamental to any reasonable definition of athletics. If they’re competing, def include within athletic department. If not, they clearly should not be.

 

First, I don’t think you’re arguing against what my point is-which is that it needs to be a sport because it needs to receive athletic funding. It has nothing to do with the merits of the activity itself, and everything to do with the beneficiaries of the activity-those who pay to attend an NCAA sanctioned interscholastic athletic event.

Second-competition as a criteria for inclusion in the athletic department is inadequate as a criteria; Chess is interscholastic and definitely not a sport. Therefore we have to get into a “competition but” or “competition and” as a criteria and if there have to be exceptions and clarifications-any sort of limitation to those is arbitrary in nature.


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And again, benefitting from an activity can’t mean that activity deserves athletic funding. That would lead to similarly absurd results.

Regarding chess - didn’t intend to argue competition is a sufficient condition but rather a necessary one.

 

Do we give out scholarships for cheer/dance? Do we give out scholarships to band members?

I think the biggest benefit from a monetary standpoint was free travel & lodging to the Big East Tournament and the NCAA Tournament (Welp)?

Don't we pay the mascot?

 

I’m not sure we pay him $$ any more ever since he peed on the floor at MSG but I think he still get paid in greenies, large bones, and “attaboy’s”. But as Michael Scott would say, it’s not just about the money… it’s about the perks. And who can forget about the new company car that Butler bought for him this season?


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Cheer and dance should receive funding under Athletics for uniforms, coaches, etc but they only exist to provide entertainment at actual sport competitions. I’m sure some big time football schools do offer scholarships, but that doesn’t mean cheer/dance are intercollegiate team sports. Therefore ok exclude from Women in Sports recognition. Which leads to the fact they are also coed. And aren’t competing in NCAA sanctioned competitions and tournaments. Not saying they aren’t athletic—but not a collegiate team sport IMO.

 

If BUBB gets scholarships, I missed out. However, if you make the tourney, we get the luxury of room/board, travel with the team, and our favorite... per diem. Of course, half the band spent their whole cache on booze in the first hour. The favorite chant when we were well ahead of an opponent, which actually wasn't that often during the tourney, was, "More Per Diem!"

Of course, in 2011 we took a bus that broke down at a gas station in Chicago on the way to Wisconsin-Milwaukee so we missed half of the game against Norris Cole and Cleveland State at the Horizon League Semi-Finals.

So, you can get scholarships if you're good at music and are performance majors. However, you're just screwed over when you're stuck performing at a Wind Ensemble concert during the Final Four in Houston and we're stuck bringing a twirler with no place for her to perform.

 

This is again, arbitrary and gatekeeping.

When Rotnei would go to Hinkle at 2 am he was not competing against anyone or any opponent but surely no one would say that he wasn’t playing a sport.

There is quite simply no good reason why it should not be a sport and plenty why it should.




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When I donate my extortion....I mean money to be part of the Bulldawg Club (to bump up my priority points) I have given half of my money to the Dance Team and the other half to the Cheerleaders. They are both officially under the athletic department.

 

I gave you a good reason, you just don’t like it.
And that reason is by definition not arbitrary: it’s a fundamental part of every other sport and I’m applying it to the activity you’re claiming should be included.

There are probably some reasonable arguments for why they should receive some funding which is I think what you’re really intuiting here and you could make those without taking the silly position that it’s a sport that should sit within the athletic department right next to/on equal footing with soccer and tennis and track etc.

 

No question they are under the purview of Athletics but still doesn’t make them a team sport. They don’t compete intercollegiately under the NCAA which seems like an obvious criteria. But nice that you support them as that frees up funds for team sports.


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Both competed in the 2023 UCA & UDA College Cheerleading and Dance Team National Championship for the first time this year. All of the top Universities that send their squads may argue with you about it not being a team sport. BTW our dance team took 5th place in Division 1 Game Day Dance.

 

Again not suggesting they aren’t athletic or skilled at what they do but it’s just not a team sport. I’m glad they contribute what they do at games. But their purpose is to entertain while other teams are actually competing. Despite participating in non NCAA affiliated events as you listed.


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My understanding (which may be wrong) of why NCAA cheerleading is not classified as a sport is because there are so many serious cheerleading injuries...way more than in any sport. And if it were classified as a sport the ncaa would require extremely costly safety protocols.