Brandon Miller Hired by Butler

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by pf1, Jul 3, 2013.

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  1. pf1

    pf1 New Member

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    I'm not sure I agree. Much like losing the underappreciated Andrew Smith was a bigger deal than most thought it would be, I think losing Khyle will come to be regarded similarly. I'd be surprised if Martin were able to come close to Khyle's production next year. He's been our most efficient player who plays major minutes.

    Assuming Barlow remains our starting point guard and logging big minutes, that leaves 2 slots - maybe 3 if we're going to go with a severely undersized lineup - for Dunham, Jones, Brown, and Martin. Kind of a logjam. Positional redundancy could lead to diminishing returns for that group of guys.
     
  2. halftime_floor_sweeper

    halftime_floor_sweeper Well-Known Member

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    "you could form your opinion"

    An opinion is vastly different than forming a judgement by mid May ......................

    "Before Rotnei Clarke ever played a game for Butler, I don't know of a single fan who didn't believe - at a minimum - that he would be a positive addition to the team. Was there something wrong with fans who came to that conclusion months before he'd ever suited up"

    By all means use the almost singular example where the hype intersected with expectations, let's not discuss the dozens of times where fans were flat out wrong, one way or the other, about a kids ultimate impact on the program.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2014
  3. pf1

    pf1 New Member

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    I guess I just don't understand the negative connotation many posters on here seem to attribute to "judgment" that somehow implies rigidity or permanence. In my book, it's entirely possible to make a judgment at a given time based on the facts available and then, if facts or circumstances happen to dictate otherwise, to reconsider that judgment. That's how people function in the world - by making the best judgments they can. Doing so doesn't by itself make you a big meanie. It makes you a pragmatist.
     
  4. butlerfan

    butlerfan New Member

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    Why do I get the feeling this team will be overall better by getting Marshall and Fromm out of the lineup next season though? Marshall can score, but his defensive recognition is probably the worst of any of the five starters. His rebounding is very hit or miss game to game too. Fromm hasn't played well lately. I think we could be better next year by allocating those minutes among Rose/Woods/Martin and Chrabascz. I don't think recruiting is done yet either. I could see us adding a BIG in the Spring, if the right one appears in the 5th year transfers.
     
  5. halftime_floor_sweeper

    halftime_floor_sweeper Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    " In my book, it's entirely possible to make a judgment at a given time based on the facts available and then, if facts or circumstances happen to dictate otherwise, to reconsider that judgment. "

    You aren't dealing with the commodities market, you are dealing with someones career. It's kind of difficult to unwind an employment termination based on YOUR "error in judgment".

    "That's how people function in the world - by making the best judgments they can."

    People usually make judgments based on set of objective facts. I have an idea why you go out and buy a new car tomorrow, based on your judgment, you have a lock down on the Super Bowl this weekend. What, you don't think that's a good idea ?

    " Doing so doesn't by itself make you a big meanie. It makes you a pragmatist."

    You a right it has nothing to do with making you a bad person, it also is far from pragmatic. It's not practical or sensible to render judgment based on an evaluation process that as often as not turns out wrong.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2014
  6. pf1

    pf1 New Member

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    The point of the example, which I thought was clear, was to point out that not all expectations about a new player are wrong. Some are right. And, yes, some are wrong too. Not sure how that's controversial. To the extent you have a problem with those predictions/assessments that turn out to be "flat out wrong," by all means point those out, criticize them, and maybe place less value on that person's opinion next time. But let's not act like it's in and of itself impossible to properly assess a player before his career has unfolded. By that logic, recruiting would be a complete crap shoot.

    "Should we recruit the kid from the Indiana School for the Blind or Kelan Martin?"

    "Not sure. Sometimes people are wrong in their assessments about players and goodness knows we don't want to make any judgments lest someone be offended. So I guess we'll just take whoever. At any rate, we'll be able to judge 4 years from now after their college careers are over who was better."
     
  7. pf1

    pf1 New Member

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    You're right. That's part of the challenge and stress facing a boss who decides an employee's fate. Sometimes you fire a guy when you shouldn't have. But let's not forget that sometimes you also let a guy who is underperforming hang onto his job for so long that he damages the organization and, by extension, its many stakeholders.

    The decision to hire or fire somebody is often not clear cut. But I don't think a boss should wait until the house is on fire to make a decision to fire somebody anymore than he should fire the guy for innocently lighting a match.
     
  8. halftime_floor_sweeper

    halftime_floor_sweeper Well-Known Member

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    pf1 I am not sue you understand your own post. You proposed making a "judgment" on Miller's career, based on the vagaries of predicting a recruits ultimate success. No one has an issue with "judging" a recruits potential. I hope you are better in court than this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2014
  9. halftime_floor_sweeper

    halftime_floor_sweeper Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    "You're right. That's part of the challenge and stress facing a boss who decides an employee's fate. Sometimes you fire a guy when you shouldn't have."

    Yeah and often it leads to the bosses dismissal. So that mistake isn't made very often.
     
  10. ThaddeusB

    ThaddeusB Active Member

    Money:
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    I think the team will be better next year, but not because Marshall & Fromm will gone. Rather, everyone else will be a year older/more experienced which makes a much bigger difference than people usually realize. That said, a 5th year BIG would go a long way to helping the improvement along.
     
  11. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    I agree Khyle will be missed more than some are expecting and that the roster as it sits to look right now looks lopsided with wings. That's why I put the "" around my talented claim. The talent will be there, but the positions won't be. Berry, if one believes in him, is a big wild card. Saying that, we still need another big body to even things out a little.
     
  12. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    Hell even if he could add one good player, whether it be a PG, SG or Big it would change things dramatically. Then you're looking at an 8 man rotation vs a 7 man rotation. Look how whooped these guys look this year and how close they have come to winning games, but losing in the end, with fatigue being a big part. One more top tier talent and things change a ton.
     
  13. sammysnead22

    sammysnead22 New Member

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    Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, Seton Hall, Creighton, St. John's, Providence, Xavier and DePaul will also be a year older and have another year of experience. So.....
     
  14. ndfan1993

    ndfan1993 Active Member

    Money:
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    We need a guy that can facilitate the offense but also go get his. Would kill for Mike Green right now. I think we really need to hit a HR and grab a 5th year or JUCO BIG or PG...or both this off season.
     
  15. butlerfan

    butlerfan New Member

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    Back in 86 Knight at IU added a JUCO BIG(Dean Garrett) and a JUCO guard(Keith Smart) to his core of Steve Alford and Daryl Thomas and did pretty well in 1987. It can be done. In this day and age of all these 5th year transfers, I definitely think BMill is going to have opportunities to improve this team. With Rose/Woods/Dunham and Barlow all upperclassmen next year, IMO Butler will be an enticing team for a 5th year transfer to join. I don't know alot about what's available JUCO wise. Brad Winton is a good follow for JUCO ranks.
     
  16. butlerfan

    butlerfan New Member

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    pf1 ‏@BUpf1 3h
    If the Cavs fire Mike Brown & he's interested, I think #Butler has to think long and hard about whether it's time to move on from Miller

    -----------

    JSMDH.
     
  17. ThaddeusB

    ThaddeusB Active Member

    Money:
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    That implies all teams are graduating/losing to the draft exactly the same amount and calibur of players which obviously is not true.... To my point, a third/fourth year 3 star player is more productive than a 4+ star freshman on average.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2014
  18. Willard Decker

    Willard Decker New Member

    Money:
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    Not necessary.

    --Captain Decker
     
  19. the_speakers_lab

    the_speakers_lab Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    I hope ppl's expectations aren't too high in landing a 5th yr, immediately eligible player. These guys are the most over recruited players in the nation. In regards to bigs, they're the rarest player to find in normal, HS recruiting let alone among the 5th years. Also, this is the 5th year's last year of college basketball, can we convince him he'll play (I would hope so) and be on a winning, tournament team (looks to be a much, much harder sell after what's happening this year)? Lastly about the 5th years, how good do you think these guys "that we COULD LAND" are and where do you think they're coming from? (Purdue has 2 from Seattle U and Cornell and they're both role players, not game/season changers)

    I would like to think my expectations are pretty low and would just like to see BE talent added to the roster, even if it's via a normal transfer.
     
  20. mizebl

    mizebl Active Member

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    Completely agree. Listened to Jim Boiheim the other day and he said exactly the same thing. Interestingly, he said that teams 10-15 years ago are better than teams today for this very reason.
     
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