Brunk to transfer.

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by ConnersvilleBulldog, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. Red1972

    Red1972 Well-Known Member

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    Forget about him, Butler will see him in two years at the Crossroads. How much game time in Bloomington, who knows!
     
  2. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    If we keep him in the paint or close to it that is by definition a zone.

    If we’re not playing zone he has to leave the paint to be prepared to guard ball screens. There is no alternative that doesn’t leave at least one offensive player wide open for a shot.

    The predicament I’m explaining is part of the reason that ball screen offenses have gained so much popularity. The demand precise defensive execution to prevent shots opening up and you have multiple options to counter however a defense is guarding it.

    It’s also why you can’t play just one player in a zone and the rest man. The offensive team will screen the man offense and there will be no one there to guard the ball. That will allow either the offensive player to get into the paint at full speed to attack a slow defender (whose man will also be rolling to the paint as a passing option) which allows basically a guaranteed layup OR you have to have another defender leave their man on the perimeter which allows an open 3 point attempt.

    I’m not sure the relevance of metrics to this discussion as I’m presenting a strictly x’s and o’s explanation.

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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  3. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    The only way to prevent a pick and roll as a defender is to get your hip on the screener’s outside hip and skinny up to get in between the screener and the ball handler. This requires incredible instincts, communication, and poor execution by the ball handler and screener. Overplaying also runs the risk of refusing the ball screen or the screener slipping. This is what you want to do as a guard, but cannot be relied upon as proper use of the screener is all that’s needed to get a foul call or a 5 on 4 opportunity.
    Against Creighton we switched everything after getting completely destroyed on screens against Georgetown. We periodically did that the rest of the season and people hated it. We also saw more zone. Additionally our ball screen coverage when Joey came in the game changed as well, he would show, soft hedge or switch, where as Nate hard hedged and recovered most of the time.

    Wide open lanes would be created by poor help side positioning. The defense can influence this with multiple great shooters, but never dictate it. Positioning is 100% a choice and game planning function. Far more often however our failures could be attributed to helping too much than too little. (Except Joey-Joey helped too little)


    Completely false. Man to man defense is like the offensive line in football, it’s 100% a team effort and there is always help if executed correctly and will fall apart if one person falls asleep.

    Yes ball pressure was an issue. You can’t both completely pack the paint and put ball pressure on the ball. To put pressure on the ball means your defenders one pass away meaning they have to positioned in the gap (think passing lanes) to jump (closeout) to the catch. They can’t get there if they are packing the paint. The passing lanes are also not in the paint so you are asking for your guards to be guarding multiple places and conflicting strategies at once here.

    Yes-this would be a trapping zone, and it would offer a deterrent to going into the paint because the alternative is having 2-3 open 3’s to choose from. I don’t know if our zone was more effective but I know that in general zones are less effective, so it’s hard to say that you know we would have been better when what you’re suggesting (zone) is something we tried and appeared to be bad at.

    Still not sure what you really mean when you say that they allowed the offense to dictate how they guarded, but Now your stance is that Butler was not trying their best to stop the opponents from scoring?

    As mentioned previously-we adjusted consistently throughout the second half of the season. Our problems were that we failed to expedite the adjustments much more so than we failed to make adjustments.

    I think you’re saying that you want the offense to take contested twos. That’s what our defense was designed to do. Hard hedging takes away the three, the drive and tries to take away the roll, ICEing the p&r (used for side ball screens) entire goal is to force the offense to pass and reset or take a long two, and the soft hedge/show is designed to make it easy to take away the roll or drive at the expense of getting to the basket. Everything we did was designed to put the offense in the least advantageous position that we were capable of, we were just bad at execution.

    How did metrics get involved here? And in ‘17 we went 25-9 and went to the sweet 16 while sweeping Nova and X.


    Sir, this is a Wendy’s.



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  4. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

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    That should last about a game. Poor foot speed and awareness. Not a shot blocker.
     
  5. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    If IU fans think they’re nationally relevant thinking Joey is a great defender for his entire tenure isn’t that much of a stretch.


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    Tentozen likes this.
  6. BulldogsFTW

    BulldogsFTW Well-Known Member

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  7. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

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    Is there a good team that predominantly runs a zone base defense besides Syrcause?

    I just don't see why we should change our entire defensive scheme because one player (here Brunk) is poor defensively, when it's not like he's Markus Howard on the offensive end and worth hiding his defensive shortcomings.

    Matt Howard and Tyler Wideman were great defensively at hedging. If Brunk can't play man to man defense effectively, bye... have fun at IU.
     
  8. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Washington does but their coach is a Boeheim guy.

    Synergy has it broken down and a complete rankings of zone %.


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  9. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Of course. But it was coming from a BU fan, not camp Joey. They made it sound like he was asked to leave—which again I don’t believe is the case.
     
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  10. BulldogsFTW

    BulldogsFTW Well-Known Member

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    Ah, knowing that context they could just be wrong or could have heard some outside chatter. I agree that I don't think Joey was being forced out.

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  11. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    There are some in Brunk's camp that kinda sorta implied he was pushed gently out the door. A BU fan could have seen that and run with it believing "yes, he must have been forced out" which obviously wasn't the case.
     
  12. tedfrye

    tedfrye Active Member

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    Joey Brunk says he will not walk in graduation ceremonies @ Butler. I thought your education was to be more important than sports.


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  13. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    He’s still graduating, he’s just not putting the cherry on top of the sundae. Sitting through my commencement ceremony might have been my worst four hours at Butler, I’d do the same thing as him if I could go back again.


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  14. BulldogsAllTheWay

    BulldogsAllTheWay Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, not walking is just smart.
     
  15. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Walking would be awkward I’d guess. They always put the seniors together in a photo with the coaches and send out on sm. Not to mention I wouldn’t put it past some people to boo.
     
  16. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    From an IU site:

    "I saw how I would fit in," he said. "I think we'll be able to play two bigs together. I'll be able to play with my back to the basket, but also stretch the floor a little bit. I can show that I'm a basketball player, and not just a back-to-the-basket guy."

    Huh.
     
  17. MasterSplinter

    MasterSplinter Active Member

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    Isn't it nice to have a Butler University graduate and amateur athlete get berated like he was...(I was going to include some pro athlete but realized it doesn't even need a comparison because it's just ridiculous on so many levels and that it will never resonate with many on this board). Another indication we've gone full high major and worship all things at the altar of the NCAA.

    Good luck in all things Joey.



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  18. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    You can’t be referring to my post?
     
  19. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how you can be a stretch big, when you don't have a jumpshot.
     
    willisbrown likes this.
  20. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    It reflects much on the character of the poster .
     

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