Bulldog Football 2021

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by Staxawax, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,841
    Probably true, and that’s better than nothing, but doesn’t change the bigger and more important point that football for Butler is expensive, low-level, and embarrassing.

    I always hear this, but it doesn’t make sense. If you replace the 100 guys on the team with 60 females and 40 males (butler’s male-female ratio), the ratio of butler’s 4800 students goes from 60-40 to 61-39. It’s not material. And no non-football player male chooses Butler because it has a crappy football team. (On the other hand, being better at basketball might help, but the important point is that there are more efficient ways to change the gender ratio, surely, than adding a percent through a low level football program.)

    Implying Butler can’t find 100 tuition paying students with credentials comparable to the football team is...I mean c’mon.

    See point above. The football team does not materially change the gender ratio. If that’s the goal, there are far more efficient ways to do that.

    Not if you replaced it with some other sport. Several Big East teams have men’s swimming, for instance, and this is a Big East sponsored sport.

    Does anyone come to homecoming to watch the football game? No one that I know. The non-football Big East schools have homecoming weekends and I’m sure they do some things well and probably attract a comparable number of people. Copy the best of it.
     
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  2. ButlerProf

    ButlerProf Active Member

    Money:
    $390
    It wasn’t that long ago we were pioneer league champions. 2017 or 18 maybe? I didn’t look it up. I’d prefer butler figure out how to develop a consistently competitive program. There are ample small colleges & universities in our vicinity that manage proud, respectable programs; Marian, UINDY, Franklin, DePauw, Wabash,…


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  3. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $7,439
    As ButlerProf points out above, it’s more a matter of consistency. Wasn’t “embarassing” in ‘12 and ‘13 when we were champs. But that needs to happen on the regular.

    From what you outlined above, it seems like you are either calling for football to be eliminated or emphasized. If emphasized, what is your strategy that allows for a consistently successful program? Where might that funding come from? If eliminated, what negatives do you see associated with it that could impact the University?
     
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  4. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,847
    Even when we went to the playoffs in ‘13 we lost by like 50 to I believe Tennessee Tech.

    What’s the point of that?

    Butler Prof also mentioned Wabash, UINDY and some others.

    The difference is that (beyond no one *actually* caring about those programs) is that those schools aren’t diverting money away from other programs that are trying to support athletic programs that compete at the highest level of college athletics.






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  5. ButlerProf

    ButlerProf Active Member

    Money:
    $390
    Good point. Context matters. Butler is D1 Major, Big East. I might bungle this, however D1 programs are allowed to designate one sport/team D1 FCS, in effect non-scholarship and still D1. For us, it was Women’s volleyball at one time. Now it’s football. So our football is categorically D1, whereas some of the nearby programs I mentioned (I believe) are DII or possibly DIII. Go figure,…


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    Last edited: Sep 6, 2021
  6. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,847
    Oh I get how/why it is the way it is, my comment though is that why would we do this?

    If the upside is being the same as a well respected local d3 program, why make that investment when it comes at the expense of programs that are trying to win and compete at the highest level.

    Having one of the 25 best non scholarship college football programs in the country doesn’t really excite me at all.


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  7. ButlerProf

    ButlerProf Active Member

    Money:
    $390
    Ya, I see what you’re saying. I’m not sure that it’s a barrier to the other sports’ successes however. And we’re DI FCS, not II or III. If we were to achieve a National top 25 status, that would be fabulous; a “highest level” in its class; Many upsides I’d imagine.


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  8. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,847
    If football is operating at a loss, which I think is a very safe assumption, then it is objectively operating as a barrier to other sports’ success.


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  9. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $7,439
    I see your point, but if the buy games are covering a good chunk of the football budget then is it really siphoning off significant resources from the BE programs?
     
  10. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,847
    If Butler Football is operating at more of a loss than other programs then yes.

    Some places have the resources to waste a bit of money and still be okay. Butler is not in that financial situation. We are in dire need of cash.


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  11. ButlerGoalie

    ButlerGoalie Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,715
    I say scrap football and go with hockey as a full varsity sport. Convert Hinkle to handle ice.
     
  12. Staxawax

    Staxawax Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,240
  13. ButlerGoalie

    ButlerGoalie Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,715
  14. Staxawax

    Staxawax Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,240
    IMG_0378.JPG

    5,700 watch the Bulldogs tame the Depauw Tigers 49-24.
    I am not familiar with Depauw's program other than they have a history that goes back 134 years and the Monon Bell game with Wabash is one of the oldest rivalry series in college football.
    So what makes an athlete choose to play football @ Butler over Depauw? Do they offer scholarships? Do they offer aid? Are they concerned about the cost of football?


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  15. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,841
    Spending money on football does not divert dollars away from a revenue generating program (or from programs competing at the highest level) like it does for Butler. Also, DePauw’s endowment per student is about 8 times higher for DePauw, so money is less of an issue just generally.
     
  16. Irishdawg

    Irishdawg Banned User

    Money:
    $1,401
    Even if the 100 guys on the football team only had 1/2 the full cost of going to Butler ($30k), which is slightly better than an average student, that alone takes care of the cost of running the program ($1.2M) and then some. Not to mention increased alumni involvement and donations to the school and program to cover those costs as well.

    If non-scholarship football didn't have the value that the University wants, they'd cut it and figure something out, much like they did with lacrosse. I assume those in charge do know what they're doing. May not be right all the time, but they've got plenty of data to know if the football program is viable and beneficial to the University while operating in the Big East.
     
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  17. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,841
    1) Highly, highly doubt it costs less than 1.2M to run the football program. I’m confident you can think up a couple million in expenses if you give it even a few minutes of thought.

    2) You’re ignoring that the university could replace those dollars with non-football students. You are smarter than this.

    3) I suppose some football players are probably more involved alumni than the average alumnus - though anecdotally, the ones I know are not - but no one else cares, and everyone would be more involved if the real varsity sports were more competitive (particularly basketball, obviously).

    4) If we all are supposed to assume everyone in charge “knows what they’re doing,” we should shut down this forum, cancel the media, etc.

    It’s been a long Monday, so I’m sorry to be sarcastic/hyperbolic, but these arent good arguments for football.
     
  18. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,847
    Increased alumni involvement would also likely occur if other sports were more nationally prominent, the football team could win the conference every single year and it wouldn’t move the needled for a non football player. If the basketball team won the conference every single year it would likely move the needle for a very large portion of the fan base. Point being that alumni involvement is not something you should treat is irreplaceable when it comes from a very small portion of your alumni base.

    As far as the football program being justified because the people in charge have more data, most sports at most schools do not turn a profit, yet they still are funded.

    There is quite literally no reason whatsoever to assume the existence of an athletic program indicates proof of being financially optimal.


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  19. Staxawax

    Staxawax Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,240
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