Butler Bulldogs 16-4 (4-3) at Georgetown Hoyas 12-8 (2-5), 1/28, 9PM Eastern

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by bmradio99, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    If anyone took it personally is understandable but responding back was a bit over the edge. By contrast, Nelson had zero expert analysis to offer nor was his opinion original. The best thing BU can do is win the next couple of games. Then BU fans can say "we are who we thought we were".
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  2. WMUDog

    WMUDog Well-Known Member

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    Here are my thoughts on Nelson’s comments. I was bothered by them and I believe I was one of the first to comment on this board. With that said, I take it as the opinion of an announcer. They do it all the time. I don’t think they need to be berated for it beyond playful trash talk. It is a matter of wanting to prove him wrong. For me the comeback win did that. If we would have lost and we continued to lose until we ended up 7th or 8th place then his analysis would be right. We may not like it but I think it is all fair game. I didn’t realize he was getting personally attacked via twitter. But the way I see it now (for me personally) is “we’re all good.” Let’s play ball.
     
  3. harvesting

    harvesting Active Member VIP Member

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    I just think after you make a comment like that then watch the rest of the game and know we come out with the win, in Butler fashion then be big enough to acknowledge that. And he did not! He actually continued to talk negatively about the team, I guess trying to defend his earlier statement. I didn’t tweet him about it but I think it was ridiculous. When your wrong your wrong.


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  4. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I mean especially as Butler fans I think we’re pretty used to announcers being wrong. I remember laughing in the middle of the last decade when they would always say, “they won’t beat themselves, they play defense and make free throws” when in fact we struggled quite a bit with free throws as a team. Similarly, last year announcers talked about how good we were at defense because we didn’t allow a lot of points. We all know we were awful at defense, we just played slowly.

    If we’re not going to take that stuff seriously, it doesn’t make sense to start when they make the same claims just change the sentiment.

    I DO think we deserve more respect both in the Big East and nationally for how formidable our program is but I get that you have to earn that. The reality is that you don’t earn anything in December and January.


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  5. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    When you attend a game in person you do not have an announcer so if you don’t like one while watching a game on TV just mute your set. I personally can’t stand Dick Vitale and mute him.

    There are a number of problems with some announcers like not doing their homework before the game and incessant chatter to fill the airwaves.
     
  6. WMUDog

    WMUDog Well-Known Member

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    Remember the sweet 16 game against Wisconsin in 2011. We were up about 15 or so at halftime. Sir Charles said that unless Gordon Hayward walks out of the locker room after half-time Butler isn't going to hang on. I thought that was disrespectful but in the nature of the game type disrespectful. What it did was make the win that much more satisfying. Much like (but to a lessor extent) Nelson's comment Tuesday increased the joy of the win. We win and the respect will come. I didn't think we were getting respect from Bilas with his top 68 rankings but then we lost 3 in a row so turns out maybe he was right. On the other hand I though perhaps we got to much respect with the #1 seed and #5 ranking. The beauty of this game is that these become empirical questions. We get to play the game and see who is right. We get a decent win streak going now beat Nova and perhaps steal the road game at Marquette and we my be back in the #1 seed discussion.
     
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  7. Sidd Finch

    Sidd Finch Well-Known Member

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    I don’t mind an analyst providing an honest appraisal. We stunk the first half. Okay, fine, but at least concede a little after the game when we come back. Sounds like Nelson is new at this. A veteran (or if you want to be snarky, you could say a person with common sense) would acknowledge the comeback, but then add something along the lines of, “but they better quit digging themselves a big hole because if they do, it will come back to haunt them”).
     
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  8. johnhardingftw

    johnhardingftw Member

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    I didn't mind Nelson's comments. He played the Heel and it made the win just a bit more satisfying.

    I'm also not surprised people were personally offended or overreacted. Hell overreaction is Twitter's business model. Tribalism is on the rise, and when people wrap their personal identities in fandom, any critique or perceived slight becomes a viscerally-felt personal attack. It's an unfortunate result of social media (and probably alcohol). I'm glad the conversation is happening on here, though, because maaaaybe it will cause some people to step back and self reflect.

    God I miss the good old days of bu97's board, and only having 3 trolls to deal with (blanche/title, duck on a rock, and cigarboy).
     
  9. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

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    Butler fans seem to getting chippier as of late.

    I saw a fan near me in his mid-late twenties turn around and flip off a bunch of Marquette frat bros who were yelling for the Golden Eagles obnoxiously (but nothing over the top) during the Dawgs recent win at Hinkle.
     
  10. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    I think that your point about the concession is interesting because it’s the kind of thing that can be viewed TOTALLY differently depending on how much skin you have in the game.

    If this were a providence St. John’s game and he said that about one of the teams and then the game went against his assessment, I don’t think I’d even remember what his assessment was. I’d think absolutely nothing of him not walking it back after the game.

    Because we all have skin in the game, and because we all have the joy of outperforming expectations, and the hope of doing something really big, that statement rains on our parade way more than I think it was ever intended to. I think for him to understand how controversial that is amongst our fan base he’d have to understand how we feel we get overlooked every single time, and no matter how much we win, we can’t overcome it.

    There’s simply no way he could understand that, and I think without sharing in that feeling, his statement becomes a lot more neutral.


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  11. Staxawax

    Staxawax Well-Known Member

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    dawgs2014, my apologies! I went back and read your post and have reposted your specific questions for me......
    How does it impact me if he believes it?
    Personally, no direct impact. But if he’s generally speaking for more than just him, I could see potential bias at that network in taking Butler serious as a competitive D1 program. That wouldn’t bother me as much as the potential to have Butler conference games scheduled at less desirable times and days.
    If he doesn’t regret it, it goes to a lack of professionalism as a studio analyst. After watching that 2nd half clinic of offensive execution and stifling defense, I think he should have given tons of credit and at least a backhanded apology.
    As for the statement being unreasonable, yes I do. He never pointed out as I remember, that Butler was short a vital starter and top reserve.
    Bottom line for me, and this will be my last post on the subject, if a network pays a league money to telecast it’s games, that statement should not be made. Give Gtown credit, and criticize Butler for playing bad ball, but don’t dump on them for kinda saying “we expected this, they’ve been playing out their arse all season but now we see the real Butler we all expected”.


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  12. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the follow up. I agree that Butler does not get respect and suspect his statement does reflect the general sentiment of that room.

    However, when I look at that statement without my Butler goggles removed (much more on that in my last post) I think it’s not totally unfair. We WERE playing bad basketball. We had recently played a lot of bad basketball, and what’s outstanding about our resume is generally how much we have won by against good teams, not beating lots of really good teams (to this point). If you don’t watch a lot of Butler, I can see being unimpressed.

    If that’s actually how he feels, I don’t think he owes an apology for honestly expressing that. Reasonable minds can differ on that, however.



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  13. Albick

    Albick Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I tend to take all of the talking heads with a grain of salt. They're paid for ratings and entertainment (that's why the "E" comes first in "ESPN"), not for rational analysis, and they're doing what they're paid to do. If you doubt that, just listen to Charles Barkley doing college basketball halftime shows. Or worse yet, listen (if you can stand it) to Bill Walton doing color on a game. The television networks don't view a game through the eyes of a fan. For them, it is first, last, and always a business that puts dollars in their coffers. Their job, as they see it, is not to provide the most cogent analysis of the teams or the game but rather to provide a product that the most people will watch. Sometimes that includes at least some semblance of expertise in objectively analyzing the action, but that is only one factor--and a rather minor one at that--in determining how the broadcast is presented.

    Any regular on this board likely has far more knowledge about Butler basketball than Jameer Nelson. He, like most of the talking heads, relies on memes, biases, and very limited research rather than on in-depth knowledge of a specific team. Some are better than others, but, for the most part, if you expect well-reasoned, deeply informed analysis regarding Butler basketball--or almost any team--from a talking head, imho you almost certainly will be disappointed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2020
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  14. ButlerGrad1111

    ButlerGrad1111 Active Member

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    Saw this as well


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  15. jkcdawgs

    jkcdawgs Well-Known Member

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    Old people stop pearl clutching...geez. Not saying I condone it, but the crowd could use a few rowdy young guys....
     
  16. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Just took another look at that segment. (And yes, I don’t take kindly to people with a big platform who can absolutely influence the way our program is viewed making uniformed/semi-snarky comments). He wasn’t derisive in his body language, but he did lead with the “they are who we thought they were” comment. Followed by yeah, I know they’re “down a couple of bodies” (starting PG and lock down defender plus the 6th man are more than a couple of bodies). Added “they have to find a way if they want to stay afloat in the Big East.” As if we are about to go under. He must have missed the Marquette game.

    After the game, Khalid El-Amin said some really good and insightful things about BU ending with “Good teams find a way to win in bad situations and Butler found a way to do that tonight.” Nelson’s first words after that were: “it’s unfortunate for Georgetown. (Which weirdly sounded like he personally was disappointed—which could be my bias though:) ) Had an opportunity to walk back his earlier comment and didn't and then not a peep about Butler’s play—only Georgetown.

    I think you have to view his comments in context and totality. They weren’t positive. I don’t fault anyone for challenging his opinion as long as there’s no name-calling. And clearly he’s checking his mentions (which I understand they do, but find it a bit self aggrandizing) so he knew it hadn’t gone unnoticed and decided not to walk it back. He could have easily said “So maybe Butler isn’t who the BE thought they they were when picked 8th preseason.” Make it playful. And then it’s all good.

    BTW—I didn't tweet at him. But aside from a few comments, did not think most were out of line.
     
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  17. noltar

    noltar Well-Known Member

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    Ha, cigarboy! Way to dig up a deep cut there. Wasn't that dude a Wright State fan? I can't remember.
     
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  18. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Hinkle was amped up that game. Coming off 3 losses, late tip, more Marquette fans than I would have expected and the shock of losing AT. I could hear Marquette fans hollering during our FT’s—which always surprises me when fans do that on the road.
     
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  19. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    Blast from the past and yes, I think he was a WSU guy. And I enjoyed just giggling at Duck...it was so many times so far out there or so over the line that you couldn't take it seriously. If anyone did that is on them. That board was a good time for sure.
     
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  20. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

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