• This Event was settled Feb 28, 2018
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Total Staked:
$4,967
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Jared Grubbs

Butler Bulldogs (19-10) vs St. John's Red Storm (14-15) - 2/28

Jared Grubbs, Feb 26, 2018

Settled
  1. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,472
    They owned us in the lane. No one could stop them from driving to the rim. Why Fowler doesn't jump to block shots is a mystery. His size & reach would clearly impact the shot angle.

    Wideman isn't a 5 against high major length. We've been saying it for 3 years. This is why Fowler & Brunk should have been splitting minutes all year long. This same scenario will happen in March Madness and we'll get pushed around in the lane again.

    I also am starting to be stumped to where AT has gone. He disappears during big moments of the game and has minimal scoring ability. Move Kamar to the 1 and put McD, PJ or David in the game so we can at least have more offensive threats on the floor.
     
    Tentozen likes this.
  2. Red1972

    Red1972 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,167
    Postgame shoe did not address the out of bounds play, I feel that cost us the season. In bound the ball twice get fouled and shoot free throws and get out of their
    with a win. Eleven seconds left is not the time to try a surprise, justn get the win.
     
  3. Dawgedd

    Dawgedd Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,194
    "We always talk about hitting singles...Very rarely does that home run mindset get you to where you want to go since it’s a long game. You have to have a lot of focus to continue playing the right way through everything that is going on.”
    -Brad Stevens

    Last night, we tried to hit a home run on the full court inbounds pass.
     
    dippper61 and Mad_Dawg 48 like this.
  4. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,184
    True...and power hitters usually either strike out or put it over the fence. It's pretty obvious which happened last night.
     
  5. Baddog

    Baddog Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,493
    You don't have to play great and hit over 50% of your shots to win a ballgame. That is, if you play with some common basketball sense. This way under-coached team has no common basketball sense. Settles for and forces way too many shots when they should work for better ones. The D scheme we play is one of the worst for the players we have....no height, not that athletic. There has been a little of a false impression of this team because they have looked awfully good when the ball is going through the hoop. I think that shows the potential many of us thought this team had before the season began. There are plenty of shooters on the team. Last place team in the league and down it's two best players (don't forget, LoVett was out, too). Bottom line, Jordan has turned over the decision making and offense over to the players. That's not speculation....that's a fact that he's stated in press conferences. So how has that worked out Coach? And Jordan continues to play straight up man to man on D. Even as an undersized and not a particularly strong athletic team. Wouldn't you think that knowing your roster you just might want to help as much on defense as possible and emphasize guarding the paint, and make adjustments during the game as needed?

    Jordan has played his entire life and upon graduation got into to coaching. Which is why I don't understand someone who had been around the game at a high level can stand there on the sidelines game after game and look at this team and not address its obvious (and correctable) weaknesses.....on both sides of the ball. Haven't seen any real adjustments since the start of the season (other than swapping out a starter once in a while), let alone during a game (unless you count the ubiquitous flipping to a 2 -3, which, not sure why that call was made last night, since no one was in foul trouble, they weren't hitting from the outside in second half, and the middle was still as porous as ever against the drive, zone or man.)

    Does watching Kamar (and the whole point guard thing) ever get under his skin watching him dribble endlessly and force way too many shots and passes? Baldwin plays better off the ball. And, I'd argue Thompson could be a better distributor. If you're going to play the guy, and his limited offense, give him something meaningful to do on offense. At least the defense would have to guard him and minimize the 4 on 5 crap. Does Martin having to create EVERY shot he takes (by over dribbling as well), and force too many of them, ever make Jordan think we could do better and help him? Do we have any plays to set him up, and maybe make the defense work a little? (St. John's ends the regulation with 5 fouls......Doesn't that flash a red light to you Jordan?). When's the last time we whipped the ball around the perimeter to an open man? When's the last time we had more than just one "fluke" back door a game? When's the last time we went through the post for some inside / out to an open shooter on the perimeter? On and on and on.

    I don't put all of the blame on Jordan. Maybe just 90%. All of the stupid plays and bad judgement and poor defense and forced shots by (pick a player) are correctable.....by actually coaching these guys. I wouldn't put so much blame on the individual players because this is what Jordan coaches. So last night....he challenges Baldwin and Martin, as reported....to do what...."force" even more sh!t (individual play)? I like Jordan and was real excited he got the job. And, the team he was handed had potential. It's next to last game of the season and you see the same old crap (on offense and defense) as when the season started with "revealing" and "teachable" losses to Texas and Maryland. Weaknesses that are forgotten when the ball goes through the hoop. But you can't always count on that. Hope this isn't his basketball philosophy and how he plans to coach next year and beyond....letting 18 to 21 year olds make most of the crucial calls and decisions.
     
    Bernie44 and dippper61 like this.
  6. indienapolis

    indienapolis Active Member

    Money:
    $248
  7. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,184
    I usually like your posts...but take this s**t down right now! UGH! (just teasing)
     
    indienapolis likes this.
  8. ButlerGoalie

    ButlerGoalie Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,994
    I may have too much to drink last night, who wouldn't watching that mess? But one thing still bugs me and others have since hit upon it.

    For a team that prides itself on toughness and grit and basketball IQ, why has the situational awareness been completely miserable all season long? I am far from a basketball expert but even I can see these mistakes. Bad clock management. End of fist half, 45 seconds left, the goal should be a two for one, instead two turnovers later, it became an 0 for 2 for St. John's and 4 free points. Jorgs' technical was the difference at the end. I get the attitude and whatnot, but you have to know time and place and just shut up and play ball when you're in a game like that. Baldwin's decision to jump on the drive up five and leave the 3 point line open, which brings losing into the equation. Give up the layup and hit free throws. The miserable long ball pass at the end. How do top notch D1 players/coaches not recognize the situation and adjust accordingly? What's even more maddening is that long ball pass came right after a timeout. How does that happen?

    Baldwin has looked tired the last few game. If I recall correctly, he hit a wall last year towards the end as well. Given that he will be our #1 option next season, this concerns me.

    With this Jekyll and Hyde team, they could come out and blow Seton Hall out of their place and make a BET run, or they could finish 0-3 and end up in the NIT. Something needs to change, but I don't know what that is.
     
  9. Red1972

    Red1972 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,167
    I am afraid the writing is on the wall, NIT.
     
  10. Dawgedd

    Dawgedd Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,194
    I always have thought of Baldwin as an elite defender, but I know Weitz mentioned on the Ari's podcast that Baldwin's numbers suggest he is pretty average defensively. As I have been watching him more recently with regards to his defense, I think he just takes too many risks. For example, on the ball he consistently goes for steals or over pressures the ball and gets beat off the dribble; off the ball, he over helps and allows his man an open play (last night this happened at a crucial moment). This plays out with wild swings in his defensive performace--some games his risks pay off and he has a lot of steals/deflections; while in others these risks are exploited by the other teams. With Baldwin's great wingspan and athleticism would his defense improve significantly if he just took fewer risks? Anyone got any numbers/thoughts to shed light on this?
     
    Insane Dawg likes this.
  11. Dawg4ever

    Dawg4ever Active Member

    Money:
    $194
    I'm still pissed off


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  12. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,184
    Raise your hand if you are still pissed off!!!
     
  13. DawgsMD

    DawgsMD Forum Psychiatrist VIP Member

    Money:
    $2,294
    Is this Titles alternate user name?


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
  14. BURph92

    BURph92 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,161
    I try really hard not to let Butler losses affect my mood but I have to be honest, last night’s game has really challenged that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  15. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,088
    I'm still having a hard time of why Jordan can't evaluate the game at hand?? Clearly the starters were awful last night specifically Baldwin, Thompson, Wideman, Martin, McD in order of atrociousness. When he finally made the line change and the defense and energy went up, why keep going away from it?? I can't understand for the life of me why Baddley didn't play the whole rest of the 2nd half and overtimes if they were necessary even if we had stuck with the energy. Jorgs and Baddley were clearly the two who had the energy and desire to play yet we have to sit and watch Martin and Baldwin continue to play two man and make bad decision after bad decision. I get they are the seniors and the guys but coaching is about feel and evaluating, they just didn't have it last night. PJ should have run the point Baddley at the 2 McD the 3 Martin the 4 and Fowler the 5...I'm still scratching my head at what I was watching yesterday...both from a playing and coaching standpoint
     
  16. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,184
    Before I post this, I want to be clear that I do not think that the referees alone decide the outcome of every basketball game. The players have to play defense, offense, rebound, make shots, dribble, etc. I also want to point out that I think referees have a very hard job to stay consistent in a super fast game. I am posting this for informational purposes only. Draw your own conclusions.

    Here is every play from Paul Jorgensen in the 2nd half last night. Time, play, running score.

    upload_2018-3-1_14-33-24.png

    Until the T was called, Paul was the best player on the court. He brought the team back, gave a spark, and got the game within 2 points. Then the T. After that, he didn't hit a shot (granted, he only tried 2).

    I am not saying that this is what caused Butler to lose. But I believe it is a fair argument that the T altered the game. First, it was called, giving SJU two points (they made the free throws). Second, it clearly took Paul out of rhythm. He didn't score the rest of the night. He had turnovers in OT and 2OT.

    I know some on here think that this is just coming from a pissed off fan who needs to blame someone. Not at all. The team played horribly. The team didn't play like they wanted to win. I am not putting the loss solely on this T call. But for those who say the referees do not ever affect the outcome of the game, I am suggesting you re-consider your position.
     
    joliebeth23 likes this.
  17. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,650
    I don't know why PJ got the T and the fan was not removed.
     
    bwesson15, joliebeth23 and Dawgedd like this.
  18. OldSchoolDawg1983

    OldSchoolDawg1983 Active Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $345
    Not enthused about going here, but you raised the issue. I don't think the PJ technical affected the outcome of the game, due to timing and the fact that both teams had several possessions to play in regulation time.

    What had greater effect was the referees reversing their possession call at 0:09, concluding that KM stepped out of bounds. I didn't think replays presented sufficient evidence for the reversal (in fact, I thought I saw a small strip of red between KM's shoe tip and the white end-line). My view is the reversal was in error. Would we have preserved our 58-56 lead if we in-bounded under our basket?????

    In any event, the call did not undermine the integrity of the game outcome.
     
    joliebeth23 likes this.
  19. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,184
    We will have to agree to disagree then. Because PJ didn't score again after that T. He had 12 points in 3.5 minutes and was on fire. Then shut down. I believe that affected the game. Not the only reason for the loss, but it had an affect.

    I think the reversed call was correct. If anything, Butler got a break and the ball stayed on the far end of the court.
     
  20. Dawgedd

    Dawgedd Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,194
    Ironically, we may have been better if the ball was inbounded under their basket--if I remember correctly, they got an easy layup right away (with 4 sec still left) that was aided by the forward momentum the ball handler carried from going the full court.
     

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