• This Event was settled Nov 21, 2018
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Jared Grubbs

Butler Bulldogs (2-0) vs Mississippi Rebels (1-0) - 11/16

Jared Grubbs, Nov 16, 2018

Settled
  1. tjreese

    tjreese Active Member

    Money:
    $173
    question since I only had a chance to catch a few minutes of this game. Did Butler play a 3-2 zone and did they play a decent amount of 2-3 zone last year? I don't recall Butler playing much zone, but a poster (don't know if he even knows a zone when he sees it) in another forum said that about Butler adn I really don't know. This is not to you specifically and would love for anyone that knows to answer this. Just proposed to Marlene that she might consider a party for the Crossroads games and we could watch Butler beat IU and Purdue beat ND.
     
  2. kmacker69

    kmacker69 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,705
    Played a little 2-3 zone as a change up both halves, but it only lasted a few mins each time. Was effective, but we still play mostly man to man.
     
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  3. tjreese

    tjreese Active Member

    Money:
    $173
    thank you. any particular area you considered it effective and if you know whether it was a pure 2-3 or a match up zone in that short time of viewing?
     
  4. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,119
    They switched to a pure 2-3 zone because Ole Miss was getting into the lane at will. It was an effective change of pace, but just for short stretches.
     
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  5. kmacker69

    kmacker69 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,705
    Match up from what I could tell, but it was effective as a change of pace against Ole Miss. Got us back in it in the second and messed with their rhythm in the first half.
     
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  6. tjreese

    tjreese Active Member

    Money:
    $173
    if it is real quick and depending on what the offense is doing sometimes it is hard to tell if a matchup or pure zone...need that movement on O through the lane to see the handoffs.
     
  7. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,119
    It may have been matchup zone, I dont recall. If I still have it on DVR, I'll cue it up and take a peek later tonight.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  8. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,589
    I highly doubt it was a matchup. Matchup takes a TON of time to play well, and is frankly not worth investing in if you’re only going to play it as a change of pace.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
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  9. kmacker69

    kmacker69 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,705
    If you get out on the possible shooters instead of staying in your area and packing the lane, isn't that a match up zone? Might be that the different styles of zone are still called match-up zone but are slightly different?

    From what I saw we were in a 2-3 match up, where we sag off the far-side players and get up in the ball-side players shooting and driving lanes with help, available since they are sagging off the non-ball side players. (Maybe I was remembering wrong how we reacted to the ball movement and offside players, but that's what I thought was going on?)
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
  10. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,589
    I think that’s just a straight zone. You’ll get up on the ball in any defense and rotate to what looks like help side in any defense as well.

    A match up is played like a man to man defense where the defense switches everything except that your responsibility is determined primarily by relative proximity to the ball.

    When a player cuts, its the defenders job to “Jam” the cut until they are “bumped” or handed off to their teammate who becomes newly responsible for the cutter due to his changed relative proximity.

    For example, typically the pg plays man on the ball the ball, the 2 takes the player immediately to the right of the pg (on d), the 3 the player to the right of the 2. The 4 goes first player left of the pg (on d) and the 5 the next player left. However, if the offense cuts, you reposition the offensive players, meaning you change which man each defender guards, even though their responsibility is still pg ball, 2 first guy right, 3 second guy right etc.

    You’re playing a man defense that looks like a zone in an attempt to confuse the offense as to what you’re playing, and hopefully they’ll run zone plays against what plays like a man defense.

    It’s extremely complicated because everybody has to be acutely aware of what every single other player is doing. This takes a ton of time and repetition.

    While I wasn’t watching closely enough at the game to diagnose it, I’m almost certain that the extreme complication of implementing an effective matchup would eliminate it as a candidate for a “change of pace” defense.

    Don’t think of a standard zone as guarding a specific area of the floor. It’s an oversimplification. Its really just a different set of “rules” that govern how you defend based on passes and your teammates’ movements. Think about the special relationship of some as not a spot on a floor, but a relationship to your teammates’ actions.




    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
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  11. kmacker69

    kmacker69 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,705
    Definitions change and I'm not that deep in the weeds, but I get what your talking about and understand why you would say it wasn't a match up zone. It wasn't that zone at all. I have heard Syracuse's and other teams that use that zone called a 2-3 match up zone. (Also have seen it called a basic 2-3, so I guess it's how you switch that can blur the definitions.) No worries, moving on to the next game.
     
  12. MilkSteak

    MilkSteak Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,784
    Ole Miss is up to #66 in KenPom. Won’t translate into a signature win by any means, but it’s comparable to having a win against Providence. So not bad at all.
     
  13. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,707
    Could be IF they can keep it somewhat close or even steal one against Tennessee, Kentucky, auburn and Florida. LSU good too. That schedule is brutal so the SOS will be there...can they post good outings though.
     

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