Butler Bulldogs (9-0) at Baylor Bears (7-1) - 12/10

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by bmradio99, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    I go back to one of my prior posts. Butler only has two consistent scoring threats - KB and Sean. After that you have Tucker then it falls off dramatically. When the game is on the line and Sean is being blanketed I’m riding with Baldwin. I’m sure not going to ask AT, Nze or David to get baskets.

    One adjustment I would have made in the last four minutes was to put Golden back in for Nze. Golden is a better free throw shooter and may have been able to score from out- Nze can’t or won’t shoot away from the basket.
     
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  2. DawgsMD

    DawgsMD Forum Psychiatrist VIP Member

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    Jared or Lukas, do we have ppp data on Baldwin iso vs other sets for second half only?


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  3. BoyGeoff

    BoyGeoff Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    +1 on this.
     
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  4. schoops

    schoops Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it matters one iota who is on the floor with KB in the last minute of the game on offense. You might as well put your best defensive team out there with him, because KB isn't giving the ball up for the last 2 minutes of the game. Can you think of a single game in the past 2 years where Baldwin passed the ball on the last play...or the second or third to last play? When he gets it at the top of the key in those situations, he's not passing no matter who is on the court or what the defense does.
     
  5. Bulldogs260

    Bulldogs260 Well-Known Member

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    I think some people are meant to be good assistant coaches for example Terry Johnson at OSU. I could go on and on but basically just don’t see him being a good head coach ever.


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  6. Bulldogs260

    Bulldogs260 Well-Known Member

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    True. I wish he would have chose to pass to David because that was a dunk or layup maybe even a foul with the bucket. That really hurt


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  7. Baddog

    Baddog Well-Known Member

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    True. Substitutions and rotations have been head scratchers for some time. For Insane Dawg, you think there might be a few more viable scoring options by running some "sets" that create open shots and layups and backdoors for others rather than relying primarily on a dribble drive offense that only one, KB, is at times effective in running? Shawn scores 16 points on 8 shots. Kamar 19 on 24 shots. The offense (designed by Jordan and the coaches) is definitely oriented to Baldwin. It's not that Baldwin is selfish. I think he does what he is told. There is a big reason why Butler never gets to the line with regularity. Been that way for three years. Huge flaw in the offense. Recognized by the coaches too. But haven't seen adjustments to correct.

    Sure, if all you're going to do for the last shot is give the ball to someone to go and create a shot, absolutely give it to Baldwin. Who else? But haven't we practice an out-of-bounds play or two or three for a last second attempt besides giving the ball to Baldwin to go create something? Winning the first 9 games and almost a 10th shows there is talent on the team. Question is, is it getting maximized? Tucker appears to be an untapped weapon, both inside and outside, that sits on the bench. Big kid that usually draws shorter defenders. Have never seen him posted up one time. He has skills...untapped, IMO. Don't know what the problem is. Clearly undisciplined. Maybe he is another who would be more effective running through some "sets." Giving the players some freedom is good, to an extent, but they will make a whole lot of "ill advised" moves and mistakes with that freedom. Game flow and feel? I just don't like this offense, even with the wins, because there are a lot of wasted and/or empty possessions. No, you're not going to score on every possession, but shouldn't you try to get the best shot you can every possession? Think we would be better spreading the ball around.
     
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  8. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

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    Are you just choosing to ignore all of the back cuts and other actions that they run? What about the play where Nze gets the ball at the free throw line and drives either for himself or for a kickout opportunity?

    You're making it seem as though the offense just dribbles aimlessly on every possession, which is unfair to the staff.

    End of games are definitely a different story, though, and that's where my concerns are. The offense needs to keep its structure throughout the game so teams can't key in on Baldwin late.
     
  9. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    Tucker seems to have become the poster boy for you posters for what ails the team this year. I like Tucker and David but neither are at the level that we need them to be. They both need to break out for the offense to really click. If I’m the opposing coach I’m focusing on Sean and KB. The others are not my defensive focus. In studying Butler you conclude that no one else is going to beat you besides KB or Sean.
     
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  10. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    The offense definitely is more crisp and active this year than last. There is no doubting that. Both Thompson and Baldwin are doing well at the guard spot at creating for others until is a close game in the last few minutes. Recency bias and all that, the concern becomes that Tuesday, nothing went through anyone, including a wide open 2-1 fast break. I said it after the Stanford game and it remains true-you can't make a habit of it being Kamar 1 on 5 the last few minutes of close games. Do I want anyone else taking the last shot? No way. But run some other sets to try and spring McD or back cut Thompson etc...got to keep the defenses honest. We're going to see plenty of good ones coming soon...big east coaches are smart and the players are good-they will key like crazy on Kamar. Some nights he'll overcome, some he will not. LaVall needs a few other tricks in the back pocket to throw at these teams in the last few minutes.
     
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  11. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    God, are we going to complain about having a good offense again all season?

    LaVall's first and third year teams feature(d) top 22 offenses (and his second year team's offense was top 30ish all season until the whole team fell off a cliff in late Feb). I get that people confuse "slow" with "inefficient," but geesh. You may not like the pace/way it looks, but LaVall's offense has worked well at Butler, period.

    If LaVall is ultimately unsuccessful, it will have everything to do with the defense. Year one's defense was meh. Year two's defense was terrible. Year three's defense has been effective so far, but it isn't clear whether opponents will continue to shoot terribly from deep.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2019
  12. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

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    Can you give it a bit of rest, we get it you think Butler's defense is way lucky so far, you know holding Baylor one of the best shooting teams in basketball to 19 second half points has nothing to do with any defense we play...
     
  13. Sidd Finch

    Sidd Finch Well-Known Member

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    I don't know the numbers like you, but by the eyeball test, we seem to be passing and moving without the ball better than we have in the past. That said, season 3 has yet to feature any games against BE competition. BE teams are going to be very good this year and they will know Butler's tendencies much better than non-conference opponents. Second, what is our offensive efficiency at the end of the game and how does it compare to the rest of the game? Pick whatever time criteria you want. Final 4 minutes, final 8 minutes, whatever. Do we bog down? Seems like it to me, but I don't know.
     
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  14. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    Coach Drew compared Butler to Virginia. I see that with better upside on offense. Hinkle Im not complaining about the offense. We just played an extremely well coached top defensive team on their home court. KB and Sean are our two go to players. It would be nice to have a third and a fourth. We get that and we are a final four team
     
  15. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    I can’t see anyone in the BE as being better than Baylor at Baylor and I believe we held them scoreless over the last four minutes and only 19 in the second half.
     
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  16. Sidd Finch

    Sidd Finch Well-Known Member

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    You're talking defense. I was talking about offense. It wasn't quite zero, but it was close. Baylor scored two points over the last 4 minutes. Then again, we only scored 3 points, so the last 4 minutes is not where we made up the ground. It was a 4 point game at the 8 minute mark. We scored 9 points over the last 8 minutes.
     
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  17. Bulldogs260

    Bulldogs260 Well-Known Member

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    Obviously this would be in a perfect world but I really wouldn’t have minded seeing Kamar throw to Nze at the end of the game they run a fake handoff to Kamar and then dribble Sean’s way in the corner and look for a backdoor layup. We know they are playing Sean tight. It’s easy for me to say that now that Kamar didn’t score at the end but I think even if Sean didn’t convert I wouldn’t be pissed that Kamar didn’t take the last shot. Maybe I’m wrong and you need the ball in the best players hands at the end but it’s getting more common to see these stars being used as decoys late in games to get easy buckets


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  18. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind one bit the ball being in Kamar's hands each and every game where there is a game winning play to be made. BUT, I don't like it being that way for the last 4-5 minutes of these close games. We will get away with it here and there but then there will be nights like Tuesday where it doesn't hit. He's a tremendous one on one player that can create his own shot at the end. That is fine. But the ball goes black hole mode about the last tv time out and that just can't continue.
     
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  19. Dawgedd

    Dawgedd Well-Known Member

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    I mean we had 52 pts in a 40 minute game--1.3 pt/min. 9 pts over the last 8 minutes (1.13) is not that far off. In other games, it does seem like we slow it down the last 8 minutes or so, but that is because we have usually had around a 10pt lead--running 25 seconds off and having Kamar is a strength. Overall, we an efficient, slow paced offense. Thats not to say its perfect, but it has been around top 20 in efficiency.
     
  20. Josh Nichols

    Josh Nichols Guest

    +1. Eastar20dawg is so right.
     

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