• This Event was settled Jan 11, 2019
  • This Event is over and no longer taking wagers
Wagers:
14
Total Staked:
$2,061
Paid Out:
$1,578
Jared Grubbs

Butler Bulldogs (9-4) vs Georgetown Hoyas (10-3) - 1/3

Jared Grubbs, Dec 29, 2018

Settled
  1. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $8,008
    Rarely as a senior. Nate is a known commodity. He will be a great engineer someday. He is not a BE starting 5.
     
  2. Trumpforpresident2020

    Trumpforpresident2020 Active Member

    We are going to get creamed by Creighton. Alford and Hoiberg are still out there. I can only wish we were to land one of those guys and retain them. It makes more and more upset about Holtman. Holtman was a good coach and I wonder if we did everything to kee him as we did for Stevens. That whole blunder with him departing and hiring lavall has put our program in the trenches. This sucks!
     
  3. BoyGeoff

    BoyGeoff Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $648
    In this team's case, I think the opposite is necessary. We have enough players to go full out defensively for 40 minutes. Since we don't run sets for our shooters, what difference does it make. Our shooters have not demonstrated defensive prowess or commitment. And, they don't get good quality open looks by design. So, I would add minutes for CD and push the envelope across the board defensively. So the entire team needs to expend all energy on defense and sub to keep fresh bodies. We need a turning point and right now it is on the defensive end. After the last two games, I want to see a commitment to something other than the woeful offense we have been running.
     
    bumba, estar20dawg, SRG and 1 other person like this.
  4. RegionTownDawg

    RegionTownDawg Member

    Money:
    $76
    Last night was as disappointed as I can ever remember being at Hinkle. I thought we put in the physical effort we needed, but had so many mental mistakes that are hard to excuse-- McDermott lost his man several times on simple baseline screen actions that led to wide open 3's and eventually a career night for Malinowski. Our bigs rotated to help at the first sign of any drives and left their man wide open for drop-off passes-- I thought the overhelp must have been a part of the gameplan since all 3 centers were guilty of it until I saw one of the assistants laying into Golden after one. And our zone last night was so bad that a few possessions ended with a plus-shooter on Georgetown unsure whether they should take an open shot or make a pass to an equally wide-open shooter.

    Fowler played awful in his first 3 minutes, sat until the second half, then gave some good minutes when he got put back in in the second half. Not saying that it would solve all our issues, but he seemed to respond well to coming off the bench in the 2nd half.

    Seems like our offense requires a complete PG who can initiate the offense off the dribble without a screener. AT can get the step on his guy and make the right passes, but struggles when the defense sags or leaves him to try and finish. KB can get in the lane whenever he wants but doesn't have the decision-making ability needed. If LaVall's system is going to put this much pressure on the PG, he needs to nail his recruiting at the position going forward or adjust to the players we do have.

    I will say, the rest of this season will be a hell of a test for Jordan as a coach. We have lots of talented players with complementary strengths and weaknesses, but almost no complete players that you can just plug in and let go to work. I haven't been highly impressed with his on-court coaching so far, but I do think we have the talent to be competitive with the right line-ups and gameplans-- just need someone a lot smarter than me to figure it out. We'll see if Jordan is up to it.
     
  5. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $5,960
    It should have been obvious last night that BU was definitely playing with a sense of urgency. At the same time the team played as individuals in a very disjointed or disconnected fashion. To say team was pressing would be an understatement. The team lacks structure and a disciplined approach. It is up to LJ to provide that. Just as importantly the team needs to trust one another and play relaxed instead of the over anxious effort exhibited last night. While I fully expected the team to bounce back, this was a classic over-reaction to an incredibly poor performance. Can we right the ship?
     
    shoeevv, GoodDawgs, Tentozen and 3 others like this.
  6. m4795

    m4795 New Member

    Money:
    $49
    I agree 100%. No single player has changed drastically over the last two weeks, we're now facing better competition who can exploit the weaknesses. It's all on LaVall to figure out how to make the pieces fit, and strengthen our weaknesses.
     
    bumba and HoosierDawg like this.
  7. Red1972

    Red1972 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,540
    I have not left a game early since the Xavier game during the Brandon Miller era. This team could fall off the rails real easy, hopefully I am wrong. This team lacks a real fire, pictures of
    body changes are fine and good, but would need changes on the court, not players but attitude.
     
  8. BU_NeonHat

    BU_NeonHat Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,307
    I miss the Butler defense
     
    bwesson15, mwall787 and estar20dawg like this.
  9. Baddog

    Baddog Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,537
    IMO the anger and frustration against the players is somewhat misdirected....but only to an extent, because even THE PLAYERS should know better (replay one of the last scenes in Hoosiers....when the "team" knew old Jimmy would hit that last shot!!!!....ok, just "humorous" digression.....cause we have to laugh in the face of this crap). Baldwin is such an easy and obvious target for the absolutely silly, selfish, counterproductive and rarely successful hero ball, but he's done it in every game this year, especially crunch time. (When did it become acceptable good basketball to go 1 on 2 or 3 or even 4 and force the action?) Has to have green light and approval from Jordan. Exactly what does Jordan see that he likes? So if Jordan is in control of this team, couldn't the hero ball stop immediately? Couldn't the overall shot selection improve with some real coaching? Ironically, wasn't that selfish type of play the reason why Kelan was benched by Holtmann (not that I like Holtmann all that much) for being detrimental to the team? Wish it were that easy, but there are so many more problems beyond just hero ball. Last in the Big East in rebounding margin. Last in the Big East in free throws attempted and free throws made. Yet we soldier on status quo. There are several people sitting on the bench with "coach" in their title that have been around basketball for a time. Do you ever wonder what some of these "coaches" think of this approach or style? Pretty hard to argue this is good basketball on any level, let alone what we know as smart, tough Butler basketball. Nothing smart about what we are seeing now. Even the TV color commentors, one after another, game after game, declare "....this isn't Butler basketball." Kind of a sad situation. And not the first time Barry may have made another bad hiring decision. Jordan still has at least another year and a half, probably more. Last year, Jordan's first, there was a big flashing red light for some of us when a pretty solid team and roster went an underachieving 21 - 14. A whole lot of people on this chat board recognized that a problem did indeed exist at the top but were assured Jordan would learn and get better. So what do you think so far? Is it time or can or should Barry step in with a "come to Jesus" conversation with Jordan? And is that even appropriate? Do any AD's ever have those type of conversations? I'm not calling for Jordan's head. Not yet. Honestly, I don't know what can or what could be done, or what is appropriate. Frustrating. Jordan has shown no signs of "coaching" to his roster, no matter the game results. The calls for "leadership" and "toughness" from Jordan truely ring hollow with the absence of direction and preparation from the top. Granted, we've looked pretty good at times this year, yielding a false sense of security. The team has talented players, and when the ball does go through the hoop, the team looks pretty good and plays above the coaching shortcomings. But not a recipe for long term success, a la Florida and St. Louis and Georgetown. We're a "tweener" type of major program with a small margin for error. A year or two in the toilet can have a major impact long term. Sadly, we're on a current path to the Big East cellar this year. Team is much better than that. More questions than answers, but someone needs to do something. But what? It obviously isn't going to correct itself. Not a good situation.
     
    HoosierDawg likes this.
  10. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $5,607
    So what did Gottleib tweet out last night about Butler that he later deleted?
     
  11. harvesting

    harvesting Active Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $285
    “Lost his man” ????? Were you at the game, or did you watch it while you were doing 50 other things and really weren’t “watching” the game? McD is one of our ONLY defenders who “helps”. So if he’s “lost his man” it’s because he’s had to leave him to pick up the guy who got past whoever was supposed to be guarding him. Then gets burned because that guy doesn’t pick up the player he had to leave. Happens over and over. If I were him
    I’d stop “helping”, stay with his guy and maybe that would make everyone happy or at least shift the blame where it’s actually due.
    Our BIGGEST offensive problem is that these guys don’t play like a team. Most every one of them is out there for themselves and their glory. PASS THE BALL!!! I’m so tired of watching the out of control, hoping for a foul, jacked up, sometimes misses the whole rim completely **** I could throw up! AND THEN miss your free throws! Good idea, let’s keep doing that! We were within 6 with a little over a minute to go after the 3 from McD. The next two possessions KB and AT drive in, McD is open and they don’t even look for the pass, and that happens EVERY game. They want to score more than they want to win and THAT IS A PROBLEM!!!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
    Insane Dawg likes this.
  12. Hanover dawg

    Hanover dawg New Member

    Money:
    $11




    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
  13. Hanover dawg

    Hanover dawg New Member

    Money:
    $11
    Thanks to baddog for introducing the hammer to the nail! Great summation.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
  14. MisterFive

    MisterFive Member

    Money:
    $96
    I didn't read through the whole thread, so this may have been addressed. IMO, starting lineup for Saturday should be Baldwin, Tucker, Baddley, Brunk, and flip a coin between McDermott and Jorgensen. Not the strongest defensive lineup I know, but can they really do any worse than our starts the last two games?
     
  15. bmradio99

    bmradio99 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,298
  16. Gregory Roach

    Gregory Roach Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $462
    Mark these are great observations. Nice summary. I appreciate your insights.

    I will add a few of my own observations or perhaps some amplifications.

    1) Baddley has a good game and SAVES this team in the first half. His play demands more PT perhaps even some of Baldwin's time.

    2) Following the first 3 mins of the second half, Jordan goes with a two forward lineup of McDermott and Tucker that results in Butler dominating the boards and getting better shots for McDermott and Baldwin. The lead is eventually cut to 4.

    3) With 9:50 to play in the second, the score 57-53 Georgetown, Butler with momentum and the ball, Kamar Baldwin is called for a charge attempting to drive through a double team (or triple..I can't remember which). From there on the game gets away from the Dawgs and begins to resemble the last 6 minutes vs Indiana.

    4) At 8:52, Jordan calls time out after a Malinowski triple, Tucker is subbed out to rest (he had played 10 straight minutes) and LJ returns to the 3 guard lineup that doesn't work. The score was 62-53.

    5) The final 8 minutes of the game seem nearly identical to Indiana except worse. LJ makes numerous substitutions that simply don't make any logical sense. Between the 4 and 3 minute mark, there are 3 occasions during Georgetown free throws he has SIX men on the floor because the players are TOTALLY confused as to who is in and who is out....REALLY?! To make matters worse, in the last 3 mins, with Butler showing some life, the game is thrown away on 3 successive possessions with Baldwin playing hero ball and failing to score or turning the ball over (as with Indiana). Why in the world does Coach Jordan bench ever other player on the team for mental mistakes (particularly in the first half where there was a clear one strike rule and your out for everyone) but not Baldwin?? I just don't get it. That inconsistency has to be detrimental to team moral.

    6) CD never sees the floor even though McDermott has a less than productive game (except for a brief spurt when playing with Tucker when he didn't have to guard someone 30 pounds heavier than himself). Why not let CD play with Tucker. We have YET to see that combination.

    7) Following his 10 min play in the second half, Tucker sees the floor for ONE possession in the last 8:52.

    8) To be fair, Nate played much more effectively in his final appearance on the floor. That notwithstanding, all of Section 204 where betting that Nate would start.....but simultaneously shacking our heads at the lack of coaching flexibility.

    9) Brunk showed improvement, is still a VERY raw gem that needs to be polished with more PT. Those arguing that Fowler has better fundamentals compared to Brunk miss the global picture for the minutia. Brunk's upside is at a level that demands Fowler's mins be given up. To invest more time in Fowler as a player is to invest mins in a resource that will NEVER improve. I agree with the comment that Nate is wonderful young man and will be a good engineer someday. Let him focus on those important professional aspects of the next step in his life.

    10) Golden didn't get enough PT to gather any impression from. That is a coaching decision.

    11) The early season confidence that AT showed in his jump shot has all but disappeared. Again, opposition gives him all the room in the world to shoot which limits his ability to drive or drive and dish. Offensively he has been neutered.

    12) PJ is simply lost. Since the offensive scheme (if there is one) doesn't rely on setting good screens, he rarely sees the ball or sees the ball when open. Hence his effectiveness has been zero for now 4 out of 5 games.

    Lastly, coaching in the last 8:52 of this game bordered on absurd. I find it particularly troubling that Jordan has such a poor coaching performance in the last 8:52 and has the GULL in his press conference to indicate he needs more leadership on the floor when is the one who 1) based on his decision making doesn't appear to have any clue as to the strengths/weakness of his own players, 2) allows Baldwin to single highhandedly destroy any and all attacking chemistry that might have been developed and 3) can't even clearly communicate substitutions to the players. A TRUE leader showing confidence would take all responsibility for the last two games. LJ showed he is craven.

    All in all, I see a lot of wasted talent, an offensive scheme that doesn't fit the talent available, a defensive that has completely fallen apart and a coach with a LOT to learn about his players and reacting to game time decisions. Some on this board sees Jordan's behavior as arrogance. My initial reaction was to disagree with that perspective. I am no longer so sure of my position on that issue. 17 more BE games to evaluate and THAN make decisions on the future of Butler Men's Basketball.

    Oh....and please no more about Alford or Hoiberg. Both of those options should be seen as no fly zones. Let's get through the season and have a full body of information to evaluate the future of the program....than we can all "help" Collier make "enlightened" choices for the future of Butler Men's basketball.

    See you Saturday.
     
  17. Dawg Guy

    Dawg Guy Active Member

    Money:
    $448
    You completely lost me.

    Brunk should play much more than Fowler, that is my only point. I don't care about your detailed video studies, advanced stats, etc. Brunk is better now and will get better. You're point about appreciating what someone does rather than what they don't do only goes so far before it is asinine. I could have played for Butler if they would have appreciated my ability to make unguarded lay ups and overlook the fact that I'm unathletic, can't play defense, or shoot.
     
  18. Gregory Roach

    Gregory Roach Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $462
    One last thought and shout out to whoever had the idea.

    Someone, I am sorry I don't have the time to go back and find out who at this moment, mentioned Butler should play a token 3/4 court defense to use clock earlier this week. Butler attempted that strategy twice last night and it was successful. Georgetown had right at 17 mins on the clock each possession when their set offense was initiated. This team has the resources to play such a defense. Why not employ it more often??
     
    Tentozen, BU_NeonHat and estar20dawg like this.
  19. bwesson15

    bwesson15 Well-Known Member

    Nate is currently playing 18.6 mins a game Joey is playing 19.6. Last year Nate played 17.4 and Tyler played 20.5 so are we just complaining because Nate is starting over Joey. The minutes differential are almost the same as last year. Also why don't we ever credit Nate for his offensive resounding? Its actually been a plus of his for the past 3 years. If they counted tip outs he would probably have about 15 more this year.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
  20. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,383
    Not to toot my own horn, but that was me.

    I think we are at a major crossroads here...We have a class of Battle, Mulloy and Nze next year which I really like, and a super mega important recruiting class after that...This is when kids are deciding to take their first visits and they are making their cut lists. We desperately need that 2020 class to be the highest ranked one we have ever had and for awhile just a few months ago I was feeling confident we would get it, but I am really, really holding my breath right now. That could not have made a worse impression on Leal and Furst. If anything made Furst clearly choose IU last night over us, if we actually were in the discussion for him.
     
    Gregory Roach likes this.

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