Butler Bulldogs vs. Florida Gators - 12/29

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by bmradio99, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. Trumpforpresident2020

    Trumpforpresident2020 Active Member

    Agree with your statement that he is recruiting guys now that could play the system he wants to play but until then he needs to do something much different.
     
  2. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,624
    Agree with the observations that energy and effort were lacking in abundance yesterday. I believe the offense would have come around if the defense had made a few stops early. Mostly dissapppointed with the D. Would have liked more low post touches but they spend so much time hedging they aren’t in position. The one thing I long for from the HL days is the underdawg mentality/chip on the shoulder—especially on the road. Lots of talk about “softness”, but I wonder how much of that is due to the BE affiliation? With so few HL bids, we had to make noise in the non-con and not drop any bad losses in conference. Is the thinking now, have a decent non-con, finish top half of BE and you’re in the NCAA’s? It’s like we’re not valuing every game assuming it will all go our way in the end.
     
  3. wazthree

    wazthree Active Member

    Money:
    $2,781
    Stop overreacting, it was a very bad game. There are 30 in a season.

    Plus, Butler beat them on a neutral court.

    The sun came up today, time to move forward.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
    jeff and dawgs2014 like this.
  4. Baddog

    Baddog Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,337
    This isn't about one fricking bad, embarrassing game. After 13 games of witnessing Kamar's hero ball show (with the obvious blessing of LaVall) you don't think the problem(s) are a little more systemic? And it's not just this year. The talent on last year's team was better than 21-14. Don't believe LaVall needs to be fired. Not yet. He still is a pretty good "face" for Butler basketball. Looks like he could be a good recruiter. TBD. Plus, he's a good cheerleader for the team and the school. And God forbid the reaction from all of the apologizers and rationalizers and "sun came up this morning Pollyannas" on this board if he did get canned. Forget about in-game adjustments. He doesn't make adjustments from game to game. Same starting line-up for all 13 games. Clearly, it's become more and more obvious he needs to place strategy and game preparation in the hands of some one else. And even in-game management. If no one on this staff is capable, then hire someone. This isn't unusual. Al McGuire, great coach and front man for Marquette, used to heap all the praise on his assistant Hank Raymond for the x's and 0's and winning a title. I'm sure there are dozens of others as well. Read the article in the paper this morning and was looking for some acceptance of "coaching" blame from Lavall. Didn't see any. In case you haven't noticed, believe there is a little bit of cocky arrogance with LaVall. Don't mind that, as long as he produces. So not sure if he would even be receptive or open to that kind of setup. Underachieving, even in the wins, is not cutting it.
     
  5. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,439
    There is very little full truth that is communicated to the media, so I wouldn’t get overly worked up about what he does or does not say in press conferences. If you don’t think they’re going to go back and see how they can improve then you aren’t thinking thoughts rooted in reality.

    Besides, I don’t know how it really benefits anyone for Lavall to come out and say “well gee, I just don’t think I’m that good of a coach”


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  6. Danville Bulldog

    Danville Bulldog Active Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $926
    What is Jeff Meyer's role? I would think he knows some changes need to be made.
     
  7. rperk

    rperk New Member

    Money:
    $27
    Good point Sargent Hulka

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  8. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $10,688
    Look at who UCLA has as a coach.
     
  9. Gregory Roach

    Gregory Roach Active Member

    Money:
    $211
    A few observations:

    1) The start vs. Florida was identical to SLU, and a bit like Dayton (first half). Total lack of mental preparation and defensive effort. Whether that lack of preparation or effort is due to coaching staff game planning or lack of player leadership, the result is the same.

    2) A major concern is that Jordan doesn't seem to make the kind of in-game adjustments necessary in these kind of adverse situations: Florida, SLU, Dayton (made some adjustments at half) and last 6 mins of Indiana. Whereas he has demonstrated some ability to make decent half-time changes - Detroit and Presbyterian.

    3) Another major concern is that defense and rebounding are about a) effort, b) positioning and c) physical capability. In their 3 bad loses (excluding IU), Butler failed at both effort and positioning (which is a function of effort and anticipation). Coaches shouldn't have to coach to or ask for effort. Effort is player specific and player leadership related. I haven't seen a lot of leadership from this team's seniors in particular.

    4) I agree with many that Jordan continues to allow Baldwin to play hero ball in game situations when he is physically incapable of carrying this team. particularly when team shooting from the 3 point line is either cold or nonexistent (last 6 of IU). He is too small, he doesn't recognize openings well and routinely dribbles into doubles/triples when the opponent is free to sag. Lastly, the entire Butler attacking scheme does not support isolation ball and the other four players just watch (IU game in which the team was doing well from the 3 point line and simply stopped taking 3's).

    5) I understand loyalty to seniors: but it has become a standing joke in section 204 among season ticket holders that the time for Fowler to hit the end of the bench was a while ago. Yet who does Jordan continue to start and give equal minutes to? What signal does that send to players who bring energy such as David and Golden but get very limited playing time. That is very poor motivational and worse tactical coaching.

    6) Everyone on this board has mentioned Jorgensen's inconsistency. When he is off, it kills team offense in many areas. He is who he is...that is not changing. However, it seems you could sit him a bit more when he is "off".

    7) Tucker came in and had 8 quick points yet made a couple of defensive blunders in the same time frame. So instead of pulling the kid to chat with him, provide corrective coaching and than send him back into the game for another try, Jordan basically benches the kids for the rest of the half. That decision troubles me on several levels. First, in order to improve, kids require opportunities to make mistakes and learn from those experiences. Second they need opportunity to apply corrective action in a timely manner, not at distant later time when the lesson may already be forgotten. Jordan didn't give Tucker either of those options in the first half of a FL game when the entire team was playing miserable defense. Tucker wasn't the only one playing weak defense, yet he (and Brunk) were the ones shown the bench for poor defensive play when Tucker was the ONLY player capable of taking Florida on the dribble.

    8) Jordan isn't going anywhere. From my perspective he has a lot to learn to be consistently successful at this level. My concern is what appears to be a lack of adaptability responding to real time game conditions and being "stuck" in certain ways of thinking. To be successful, he must grow beyond such a narrow minded approach to game preparation and adaptation. Some on this board have attributed that to "overconfidence" on Jordan's part. If he was overconfident, I would think that the combination of SLU, IU and Florida losses would be a quick remedy for a big head.

    Thankfully first two BE games are at Hinkle. After that, it could be a Chicken Little situation. Stay tuned and please buckle your seat belts. Turbulent air is surely ahead. The question is, does this coach/team adapt, or attempt to just plow through it?

    Lastly, anyone know "why" the in-game entertainment management thought it was a good idea to not use Zombie Nation as the tip motivational piece in last two home games? Another interesting decision....but that could be another whole topic I am sure.
     
    OldSchoolDawg1983 likes this.
  10. BoyGeoff

    BoyGeoff Active Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $7
    All I got from the Florida game was a big spoonful of UNCERTAINTY.
     
  11. bwesson15

    bwesson15 Active Member

    Agree with most of what you said all good points, but Brunk got benched for Golden everytime I'm not mad with that I actually liked seeing him play he looked good in person yesterday. He plays hard and yeah he was out of position some, but I mainly blame that on it being the second game of his career. He is also going to be a plus shooter in warmups he was draining 3s I think we will see that start showing up in games more. Also this probably has many grammatical errors in it, but I was awful in English class so everyone just ignore them.

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  12. Gregory Roach

    Gregory Roach Active Member

    Money:
    $211
    I am with you on Golden. Love what I see in his play and energy. As I mentioned in starting lineup thread, the Big Man lineup should be revised to 1) Brunk, 2) Golden and anything left to 3) Fowler. Fowler has regressed dramatically.
     
    bwesson15 likes this.
  13. tlp63

    tlp63 Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $52
    I will admit that although I am a passionate Butler alum and fan, I know pretty much nothing about strategy, coaching, positioning, etc. I'm wondering if I really saw McD put up two airballs. Did I miss a mention of that or did it not happen?
     
  14. bwesson15

    bwesson15 Active Member

    Agreed I've been a big defender of Fowler but at this point it's getting hard to. Brunk and Golden are the future and you could tell Lavall wasn't happy with Fowler yesterday day. He benched him 2 mins into the game then he only played 12 mins total. I dont get how Fowler has gotten worse offensively every year. His defense improved just because he changed his body, but his offense disappeared. He is currently only averaging 5 points even and shooting 45% he shot 60% last year on the same amount of shots per game.

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  15. Red1972

    Red1972 Active Member

    Money:
    $580
    Butler had more weapons in the past, Martin and AC come to mind along with Baldwin, He now out there by his lonesome and can be exploited both offensively and defensively, good kid
    but not a major college big man. The future is Brunk at the five with Golden at the four and five., with Mulloy's arrival next year as a four and five.
     
  16. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,439
    I don’t think it’s at all off base to say that Nate has had a disappointing year offensively, and I think it’s fair to think Joey may be a better player.

    I just don’t get how we consistently overburden him with responsibility for bad things. I’m sure he’d like to be a superstar, but he’s not, and he accepts that. Same thing with Brunk. They’re both role players, and the at this point are just kind of there. Whether we win or lose, identifying playing time differences between them is almost certainly going to misinterpreting the story of the game.


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    bwesson15 likes this.
  17. jeff

    jeff Active Member

    Money:
    $552
    Re watched the beginning of the game and noticed that the first 5 or 6 possessions PJ and Mc D brought the ball up court, this was after made baskets. I don't understand this at all. It looks to me that when AT runs the point we have much better offensive sets. Was this by design?
    If so what could be the reason?
    If not , why isn't there a design?

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    Last edited: Dec 30, 2018
  18. pjohnsto2003

    pjohnsto2003 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,104
    Not sure if he is the answer. However, if you can him now, we continue down the road of lack of continuity that continues to plague the program. Give him a chance. Otherwise, we’ll be having the same gripe two years from now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
    OldSchoolDawg1983 likes this.
  19. ghostryder

    ghostryder Active Member

    Money:
    $96
    Who do you hire if you fire LJ? You have to figure they are staying in-house (figuratively). Matthew Graves didn’t work out at South Alabama; do you raid TOSU for Terry Johnson? Is Nored ready to be a head coach?

    The cupboard seems kinda bare if the desire is to keep the coach in the family.
     
  20. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $10,688
    I saw that as well which leads me to believe it was by design and thus part of a game plan. I don’t however feel that it caused the horrible start or negatively affected anything. AT is our point guard but to me he is still in training until he shows against high major competition.
     

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