Butler Trump Class

Discussion in 'Non Sports' started by Overland Bark, May 3, 2017.

  1. wazthree

    wazthree Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,917
     
  2. indienapolis

    indienapolis Active Member

    Money:
    $248
    Yeah, that fine "journalistic" site plays all the hits: immigrant hits child with car, wacky Hollywood leftists tweet some things, black lives matter is ruining America, etc etc. Sadly I'm sure there are a lot of people who care what their "journalists" have to say.


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  3. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $6,780
    Fixed it for you... You know where I got that info? The LA Times.
     
  4. indienapolis

    indienapolis Active Member

    Money:
    $248
    I don't question the details only the intent of curating a "news" site with xenophobic rhetoric wrapped around selective anti-(illegal) immigrant news items. I doubt you'd find any articles on the original linked site detailing a positive story about undocumented immigrants, who, by the way, are statistically less likely to commit violent crimes than their "legal" counterparts. This kind of outrage journalism isn't unique to the right. The left is also guilty of this. I just cringe when people link to such sites to prove their point.


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  5. Tentozen

    Tentozen Active Member

    Money:
    $538
    This teacher is not a joke; is well respected, and is part of the reason Butler is a top academic school. You should be ashamed of yourself; I'm sure you would love to destroy her in a debate, but you wouldn't have a chance, based on what I have read from you so far.


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  6. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,046
    "There was a bad immigrant. Immigrants are bad. Maybe we should just stop immigration because it does harm and does us no good."

    The point of the site and of stories like that is to inflame the passions of people who aren't bright enough to realize how foolish it is to make policy for the masses based on anecdotes and not on data sets representative of nature of the whole. That was indy's point.




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  7. wazthree

    wazthree Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,917
    Sounds like you are describing the initial class posting. Point made!
     
  8. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,046
    Explain the anecdote versus the data set in the context of an analysis of the idiocy of a single human being and explain how that's analogous to making conclusions about all members of a data set based on actions of a tiny sample of that set.

    I'd be inclined to agree with you if the premise of the class was something like: "Donald Trump is a racist. Men are racists. We should get rid of men because they do more harm than good." But of course it's not. Try harder.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
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  9. wazthree

    wazthree Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,917
    You are not worth my time.

    Fact: Regardless of your views, the class brought so much negative attention to the university, that the president had to make a statement and have the course description changed.
     
  10. halftime_floor_sweeper

    halftime_floor_sweeper Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,885
    So you mean something like "Hinkle doesn't differentiate between documented immigrants and illegal aliens. Liberals concoct False Flag discourse. "

    I also love this : " The point of the site and of stories like that is to inflame the passions of people who aren't bright enough to realize how foolish it is to make policy for the masses"

    From the same guy who posted this : "(and I'd argue impossible) to come up with intellectually coherent reasons to think Donald Trump is or will be a effective president and do what he can to further the interests of all Americans."
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  11. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,046
    I can't help you if you don't see the difference between evaluating an individual based on that person's own statements and actions and evaluating a mass of people based on the actions of a person. If you can't see that difference, setting aside that it truly blows my mind, I simply can't help you.

    If you want to draw conclusions about the person who caused that wreck based on his causing that wreck - that's reasonable!

    In Butler terms: should we stop recruiting from the northeast because Rene Castro was such a bust? They all must suck, right? Of course that's absurd. But would it be unfair to say that Rene Castro indeed wasn't very good? Do you see that difference?


    Edit: Also, I just realized you seem to have left out the most critical part of my statement in your quote above: "...aren't bright enough to realize how foolish it is to make policy for the masses based on anecdotes and not on data sets representative of nature of the whole.."
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
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  12. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,046
    Next time just wave a white flag.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
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  13. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,120
    It seems to me, for one, that this University has been led into the national limelight by it's athletic achievements. Messers Collier, Stevens, Holtmann, Hayward, Mack, Smith, Dunham, Jones, Howard, Nored and a 100 others have led
    this school to a place where the "Butler Way" is actually practiced -- and a place where many parents would choose to have their children educated. With that increased national attention, it is incumbant that the academics rise to that same level of excellence. This rather clumsy episode makes it appear that has not yet occurred.
     
  14. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $5,141
    I have read a letter that President Danko wrote to someone as a reply to their concern about this class. It was thoughtful and acknowledged that Butler needs to do better in regards to examining course descriptions. It went even further by saying that a diversity of political/societal thoughts and discussion need to be solicited and encouraged moving forward. To that end, he said next year's:

    "Celebration of Diversity Distinguished Lecture Series will engage our community in the topic of civil discourse across party lines around contentious political issues."

    So, it appears to me that Butler is taking ownership of this misstep and with a little self-evaluation (prompted by a PR hit and alumni disapproval) is taking steps to provide opportunities for broader viewpoints. If you want to ensure the Lecture Series does that, I suggest contacting the chair of Academic Affairs (committee tasked with this) with your concerns and ideas for speakers/topics that promote this goal.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  15. PDT1242

    PDT1242 Member

    Money:
    $68
    I believe that most people on this board and with the University as a whole, will agree that the initial course description was not well thought out nor did it reflect the University's approach to higher education. It also does not appear to have been properly reviewed by the appropriate channels.
    However, as BUCheer and others have stated, the University has owned up to it and taken steps to learn from this 'misstep'. So, too, has this initial course description stimulated a 'thoughtful' discussion on, of all places, this basketball forum. Maybe, all of us here can now accept this for what it is, and I'm sure it will be differently viewed by each and every one of us. I look forward to hearing how this course proceeds. Now, hopefully, we can get back to more important things like convincing 17 year olds that Butler is the place for them for the next 4 years.o_O
     
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  16. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,531
    Contentious political issues? As a country we are facing the greatest issues of our lifetime not to mention the fabric of our democratic republic is in jeopardy. Some of the material covered in this course will be covered for decades by historians. This board is an escape from the reality from these issues. I'd love to put this thread to bed forever rather than debating the merits of a course like we are members of the William Jennings Bryan society. What's going on in this thread is not discourse nor enlightening.
     
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  17. Crash

    Crash Active Member

    Money:
    $258
    What? How short is our memory? Hopkins antics that led to his dismissal and the Brandon Miller experiment to name a few. I'm sure Collier and the whole Butler program learned from these miscues.
    Unless I'm wrong, the University has not tried to shy away, deflect or turn the criticism on another source. Rather, they owned the criticism, set a game plan for the future and are holding their head high. Isn't that THE BUTLER WAY?
     
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  18. theRick03

    theRick03 New Member

    Money:
    $30
    I concur with PDT... unfortunately this has led to some negative publicity for a school that is near and dear to all of us. While universities in general tend to be very liberal, in my experience Butler provided a fairly balanced attitude regarding politics. Hopefully, this course provides interesting material for the students who enroll and the school sticks to what it should: teaching young adults how to think, not what to think.

    Anyway, who is ready for opening tip-off?
     

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