Butler vs. Xavier (1/7)

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by jkcdawgs, Jan 6, 2022.

  1. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $17,097
    You just need to “except “ dog crap to understand.
     
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  2. IrishDawghouse

    IrishDawghouse Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $764
    My goodness. I wish I had some of you people’s fairy land perspective about Butler basketball. Anybody with a set of eyes can see this team is not good. They’re less talented, they’re undersized, they’re not well coached. And there’s nothing to look at and say “hey at least we have this or that in the future that could help turn things around.”

    Coming into this year, the majority of people came to the rational conclusion that if this veteran squad could not get their **** together from last years underwhelming outcome, there needed to be some decisions made. Well, imo, it’s somehow an even worse product on the court.

    It’s okay to ask for a change at leadership positions if the results aren’t up to standards, no matter the business. Just because fans who love this university and program don’t want to listen to “let’s go x” chants in our own house as we get wiped yet again, doesn’t mean we are pessimistic a-holes who think Butler should go back to the Horizon league. Don’t watch sports if you can’t handle criticism, because it happens within every sport, at mostly every level. It’s just the way it is. This isn’t la la land where fans will mindlessly continue to buy tickets/spirit shop gear at prices that’ll make the university the profit they expect. People are fed up, and for good reason


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  3. jeff

    jeff Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $1,276
    Is it just me or are the same people who are complaining that we don't have BE talent also complaining these same players will likely transfer?
     
  4. The Peppers Drunk Limo

    The Peppers Drunk Limo Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $480
    My point is rather that we see these results so consistently and make the same points in thread after thread when we do ("Man, if Team X just would've made fewer threes / done xyz less well") that chalking it all up to random variance each time is in fact exactly how we should *not* go about looking at it
     
  5. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $16,183
    I mean, they're kids so you never know. I don't follow any social media accounts of any of the players so I don't have a clue what they're thinking. But I doubt it.

    Apathy from the board but from many other Butler alum/fans. Just in general I think many are in "shrug" mode "it is what it is" mode. If we win, hooray, if we lose, meh, don't care. As one of the more passionate fans that I know, after the Michigan St game I don't think I've cheered or booed or been terribly excited at any moment. I know I'm not alone there.

    I think it's perfectly fair by hard core to casual fans to wonder how crucial of a time this program is in right now and be very concerned about the future.
     
  6. ButlerGoalie

    ButlerGoalie Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,474
    This is a growing frustration with this team and its defenders and I’m sorry Jared, I don’t mean to call you out but there’s been a lot of hand-washing over the last couple of seasons.

    Man, the opponent never shoots this well. It’s a fluke but I’ll take it all the time.

    Or, we were injured, if only we were 100%.

    Man, Covid only hit us and destroyed our players (meanwhile X goes 21 days without playing and comes out and torches us)

    At some point, we have to take ownership that perhaps this team/staff/whatever is to blame and fix it. Out game plans are among the worst in the BE, we always end up getting torched by outliers. The lack of a trend can be the trend, especially when the one variable that doesn’t change is our team.

    The bottom line is this team can’t put a solid 40 minutes together to save its life. Not even against DII competition. That speaks volumes. This program is a rudderless ship that sometimes finds its mark but mostly doesn’t. And I feel that there is not quick fix. There’s just too much broken. Staff. Personnel. Culture.

    I don’t think this will get better anytime soon and that saddens me.


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  7. butlerguy03

    butlerguy03 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,522
    I was once told this when playing fantasy football - “personal attacks are what makes it fun” - my response was to say nothing back and the guy just went berserk constantly posting about me.

    “If you can’t handle it - get off the ****ing court.” So healthy.
     
  8. Cranjis McBasketball

    Cranjis McBasketball Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,448
    Honest question because I really can’t remember. How much better were we when Hodges played last year? Did he make that much of an impact? IIRC we were down several players so just having another body took relief off our other players. But will he have much of an impact now that we have a plethora of other healthy players now?

    i.e. was he productive because he was fresh legs or was it his particular skills? He’s only played in like 9 games


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  9. Shane Davis

    Shane Davis Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,638
    When he became eligible halfway through last season, he was very rusty and it showed, but even in that moment his athleticism made a defense on the defensive side, and he was another good rebounder for them. He came with a reputation for being an outstanding finisher at the rim, but he struggled with that, so he had to settle for being a spot up shooter from 3, he was decent at it but it’s not his strength. Before he could get back into game shape he tweaked his leg again and was never able to be what he was advertised. *If* we have a healthy Hodges this season, yes, I’m willing to bet that he makes an impact on our performance, whether it’s too late for him to make an impact is the question.
     
  10. jeff

    jeff Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $1,276
    So it sounds like you're the one that's become apathetic about Butler basketball. I still don't understand how that has any effect on the play of the team. As for the players I agree we have no way of knowing how they feel except by their expressions or their effort on the court. I haven't seen any signs of a lack of effort by anyone, but I could be wrong.
     
  11. Danville Bulldog

    Danville Bulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $2,425
    Don't despair ... 5-6 more wins and we could make it to the play-in game.:) The at-large victors have had great success when playing in the 64-team tournament.
     
  12. Shane Davis

    Shane Davis Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,638
    I want to believe you on this one, but I’m not sure that it applies to Butler this season. I remember how Butler would historically grind it out and even struggle against foes in conference because those teams played Butler all the time and knew how to game plan against them, but once tournament time came around and a new team faced Butler for the first time, Butler played a style that was advantageous and they would impose their will on others - kinda like when Syracuse squeaks in and then the zone becomes hard to gamelan against. Unfortunately, we’ve seen plenty of teams this season, old and new, put together a gameplan that stops us before halftime. We don’t seem too hard to figure out for defenses.
     
  13. Cranjis McBasketball

    Cranjis McBasketball Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,448
    That makes sense. FWIW, we were 6-10 without Hodges and 4-5 with him last year. I just remember being underwhelmed. He’s likely to be just as rusty if not more so this year coming off a broken leg.


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  14. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $10,316
    Ah okay I misunderstood then.


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  15. The Peppers Drunk Limo

    The Peppers Drunk Limo Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $480
    It’s all good - may not have been 100 percent clear
     
  16. dawgman

    dawgman Active Member

    Money:
    $213
    I have this feeling that Hodges will not even play this season. A "minor setback in practice" sounds suspicious.
     
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  17. Danville Bulldog

    Danville Bulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $2,425
    Remember when Lukas was told it was a minor injury and Hodges would be ready to play? There is no way in hell he will be playing anytime soon. And even if he did, would it make any difference? I don't think so.:(
     
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  18. IrishDawghouse

    IrishDawghouse Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $764
    So you went from comparing this Butler team to Seton Hall who just beat us by 15 at home and is in the top 25 with several quality wins — To now comparing Butler firing an underperforming coaching staff to your personal attacks you received on fantasy football.

    If you don’t agree with the sports industry being a “competitive” results oriented business with lots of critique involved then I don’t what to say. Criticism and personal attacks are two different things though. I would never condone anyone getting attacked in any situation, but the situations we’re comparing are different


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    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
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  19. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $10,316
    So what?


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  20. BNiche

    BNiche Active Member

    Money:
    $353
    Not to extend this conversation further, but inspired by some of the talk here, I talked to my Butler-alum wife (Class of 2012) about whether she wants Butler to be middle-of-the-road in the Big East or killing the Horizon league. She said neither and said if Butler can't get themselves up to snuff in Big East play, she'd rather Butler be in the Top 5 in the A-1o each year instead.

    Though I'd rather Butler stay in the Big East in general, from what I gather (and if you can help with more recent numbers, please do), Butler's basketball budget is bottom of the barrel for the Big East, but their budget would be a million above the average A-10 budget. She expresses she wants Butler to put more money in basketball as the other BE teams do... and of course, put the money in wisely.

    As a Fordham alum, I've seen a lot of A-10 basketball, mostly other teams kicking the Rams' behinds (but that's changing!). I do think Butler would compete decently well in the A-10 and hey, if they re-joined, Butler could start playing against the Ramblers again (Butler has not played any other school more - 76 games all-time, 48-28 Butler record). A-10 (usually) brings multiple at-large bids to the tournament as well.

    Right now though, according to KenPom, Butler would slide in 8th place in the 14-team league, just above George Mason, so sliding Butler in the A-10, they're not even in the Top 5 there.
     
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