Can Sean make the NBA?

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by jkcdawgs, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,706
    You're being deliberately obtuse. No one said every defender in the NBA is a good defender. Of course they aren't.

    But you have to be good enough that you're worth playing relative to your offense. To put it in Butler terms: Tyler Lewis was a huge negative defensively in 2017, but his offense was so valuable that it was often worth playing him anyway. Ron Nored was a terrible offensive player for much of his career, but his defense was so valuable it was worth the offensive hit.

    JJ Redick is not a good defender. But he's adequate enough at guarding NBA shooting guards that he's worth playing to take advantage of his 42% career three point shooting mark.

    Both sides of the ball matter, and it's the totality of the two that determine your value. It really isn't that complicated, and I know you know that. If you hate the NBA, that's fine, but that mostly means you don't like basketball once the players reach a certain level of skill or have a certain level of athleticism.
     
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  2. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,706
    So, to be clear, your position is that NBA players aren't that hard to defend? That's the implication of what you're saying.
     
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  3. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,061
    No. I’m saying the defenders aren’t giving any effort.

    How many times does some dude bulldoze down the lane for a dunk. No one ever steps in to take a charge. There’s plenty of good reasons why... why should James Harden take a charge and risk injury when he needs to be healthy for 82 games plus playoffs since he’s one of the 5 best offensive players in the game. I get it. But it doesn’t mean the lack of effort isn’t hard to watch.

    NBA playoffs are great Bc they look like the college game. Guys guarding and giving effort on both ends. But the regular season... way too many times some guy lazily dribbles up the court and chucks a 3 with no one bothering to actually D up or put up a hand.

    NBA players are insanely skilled and hard to guard. But the effort to do so could be better than it is.
     
    Insane Dawg likes this.
  4. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,282
    Sean boasted just about the identical skill set last year, and the year before, and hasn’t added anything you wouldn’t expect him to add given adequate practice time.

    My question then is if he were an NBA prospect, why would he be at Butler as a fifth year senior? If shooting is your calling card, showing improvement as a shooter does not make a guy who previously wasn’t an NBA prospect into one. Improvement is assumed.

    Additionally, Sean is AWESOME. I love Sean. But he averages 12 ppg when he’s on the floor because of his scoring ability.

    Let Sean be what he is; a killer spot up shooter who has developed his game off the bounce nicely. He not Dunham, he’s not Bluiett, he’s not Macura. But that doesn’t mean we should value him any less.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
    Tentozen likes this.
  5. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $15,307
    Hinkle even you have to agree that if Sean or anyone played defense like the guy guarding Redick he would never see the floor at Butler. If that guy can play in the NBA then Martin should have had a multi year contact by now. To compare Anunoby to Doug McDermott or a 35 year old Redick to a 23 year old does not prove a point. One offs are always out there.

    I completely agree that NBA players are far better athletes and basketball players than college players. They are bigger and more athletic than any other humans on earth- insanely so. The guy at Milwaukee is scary talented and huge. No argument here- the NBA talent isn’t comparable to college. Redick is the rare bird. He figured out a way to stay in the league and make millions by shooting. Bully for him. But to say Sean can’t do the same is just wrong. Sean has taken all of those shots Redick takes in that video and against better defenders this year already. Heck he did all of those in the last game alone and against better defenders. Does that mean Sean can become Redick? No of course not. But I would not bet against Sean. A few years ago no one would have forecasted Curry to be in the NBA.

    You like the NBA and that’s fine. I don’t hate the NBA. Don’t hate anything . The pro style just doesn’t appeal to me. I think it’s a variety of reasons - court is too small for the current size of the players, game often doesn’t really start until the fourth quarter, rules being overlooked for the Stars, chest pounding after dunks, too many games and too many commercials are just a few reasons. The average American loves the stars whether they are basketball players , movie actors or singers. We live in a Kardashian society. I used to love watching stars, the oscars, the super bowl. Can’t tell you the last time I watched the super bowl. Has to have been over ten years ago. Couldn’t tell you who won it last year.

    Hinkle I enjoy your insights and knowledge of the game. You are one of the top students of the game. Please don’t take it personally that I don’t always agree with you. Yes I’m older than most on this board. I was playing the game well before you were ever conceived. I started playing when cross over dribbles were carries as were behind the back dribbles. Yes way back when you couldn’t take two steps and there wasn’t a shot clock or three point line and dunks were rare. Way back when the jump shot was first used and you couldn’t stay in the paint on offense for more than three seconds.
     
  6. jkcdawgs

    jkcdawgs Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,924
    I don’t think you could be any more wrong.
     
  7. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,282
    So then make a counterargument.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  8. jkcdawgs

    jkcdawgs Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,924
    Sean is an excellent cutter, off the bounce he can hit a shot, and his perimeter defense is significantly improved. Sean came in as a great shooter, but developed all of these other things over the last two offseasons.
     
  9. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $7,494
    Your question about Uncle Sam makes me think you're just trolling against the NBA, which you clearly don't like.

    The luxury tax is collected by the league and then redistributed to the teams that stay under the cap. Right now there are six teams - Portland, Houston, GS, Miami, OKC and Detroit - over the threshold for this season but they have till after the trade deadline to get back under it, and several of those teams probably will.
     
  10. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,282
    What you say is all true. I didn’t say he didn’t develop anything the last few years, I said he didn’t develop anything that wouldn’t be expected/projectable thus forth changing what type of player he’d be viewed as as an nba prospect.

    Basically if you have a really good shooter early in his career, you expect him to become better at shooting in other ways, on the move, off the dribble etc. So the improvement of those skills doesn’t really add anything to his resume as far as being an NBA prospect. Sean has added a hint of those skills, but he’s still predominantly just a better spot up shooter (which makes him an elite one).

    There’s also being able to make shots off the bounce or on the move like Sean can, and having those things truly be a weapon that can be used to create a shot that wasn’t previously there like for for kellen or Kamar. Additionally, being able to shoot off the dribble is a much more valuable skill when it’s combined with playmaking skills, which Sean hasn’t shown a lot of.

    If he were considered a top 5 defender in the draft he would have a decent chance, but this is the first year he hasn’t been someone we’ve tried to hide.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  11. Crash

    Crash Active Member

    Money:
    $307
    Sean McDermott will not play in the NBA. AND, it doesn't matter.
    Sean is an incredible player, he has been ALL-IN when his body, coaching changes and transfers did not make his BU experience perfect. Let's enjoy Sean for what he brings to the court and program. Like Howard, Norad, Dunham and countless other Dawgs, I love watching them compete for Butler.
    If I'm wrong about my NBA take, I'll be the 1st to call it out and cheer him on like I've done so when Hayward, Martin and Mack play my Warriors. You should see us. Sometimes 2-3, sometimes 7-8 Butler fans with our flags cheering on an opposing player. We get the strangest looks.
     
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  12. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,324
    McDermott is a really good shooter, but he's not Redick. Redick is one of the best shooters I've seen.

    If he can improve his spot-up 3 point shot to being a dead-eye like Korver, maybe he has a shot--but I still don't see it, and there's nothing wrong with that. He's been a really good player for this program.
     
    Sidd Finch likes this.
  13. harvesting

    harvesting Active Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $285
    Just keep speculating. It’s what most of you do best. What’s happening for Sean will be Sean’s story to tell. Right now Sean is ALL IN for Butler Basketball. What he does after will be thought about after the season. One thing I know about Sean he’s not anyone I’d bet against.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
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  14. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $15,307
    So the teams that spend over a certain amount on contracts have to pay those who are under that threshold. I was being facetious about the tax. Sorry to raise your blood pressure by hitting an important factor in your life. So it’s not a tax but a way balance out the teams. It’s why Leonard left the San Antonio Spurs and Durant left OKC. So it’s why teams throw a lot of money at players like Houston or LA has done to win a championship then go in the tank later because you have to pay a “ tax” to the teams that didn’t buy players. Is this why teams in smaller markets don’t win championships? Isn’t the luxury tax in essence a penalty for buying the best players hoping to win a championship? Popovich used to be the darling coach of the NBA but is no longer because he can’t buy the talent he used to have.
     
  15. Crash

    Crash Active Member

    Money:
    $307
    I must ask Insane Dog, what are you talking about?
    Looking at the contract summary of all NBA teams, mid & small market teams are well above LAL and other Big Market teams like Chicago, NY, Atlanta, Boston, Toronto, etc. Portland has the highest CAP number, Bucks are 5th.
    Leonard didn't leave Toronto because the Raptors wouldn't pay, he left Toronto because he wanted to play in LA, where he grew up and build his own team. LaBron was w/ the Lakers, so he chose Clippers.
    Durant received a bigger contract offer from OKC than the Warriors when he moved. How do I know that? Because of his Bird rights, he could receive a 5 year deal @ $153MM, while the max he could sign with another team was 4 years @ $114MM. OKC offered the max deal. Durant chose to leave, not because OKC couldn't or wouldn't pay him.
    Popovich is still an incredible coach, but he was winning Championships when he had a combo of Robinson/Duncan/Genobili/Parker/Leonard. If the balls don't drop right and Duncan is never a Spur, how many rings does Popovich have in SA? None of this has to do with San Antonio's ability to pay.
     

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  16. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $7,494
    The luxury tax had nothing to do with Leonard leaving San Antonio or Durant leaving OKC.

    Small market teams like Portland and OKC paid the tax in recent seasons. Portland is a regular taxpayer.

    I don't know any NBA fan who doesn't think Pop is the best coach in the game.
     
  17. Tentozen

    Tentozen Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,014
    NBA playoffs do not look anything like the college game.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  18. Crash

    Crash Active Member

    Money:
    $307
    I guess I'm being combative, but this is forum to comment, predict, pontificate and speculate. If we knew, that would be called fact. BTW, if you know Butler's final record, please tell and I'll make a few dollars in Tahoe. Also, if you already know who will be part of our '21 recruiting class, don't hold back. Literally, 70% of this board is comments with speculations. If we remove speculating, I guess staring at the Scholarship Chart will be cool.
     
    Sidd Finch likes this.
  19. Tentozen

    Tentozen Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,014
    He has been, and still is an incredible coach.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  20. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,706
    You can't look at a single play in a single clip and determine what kind of defender that guy is. And if the underlined were true, why doesn't he have a multi year deal by now (though he may soon...)? It's not as if there's some conspiracy against him. And if you look at the defensive numbers, Kelan is struggling a bit with defense so far relative to the average wing defender. I think he can improve enough to be adequate, and the effort will surely be there, but it's a bear guarding NBA wings.

    And no worries at all. I don't take any arguing on here personally. I just like to argue and challenge because I like basketball.
     

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