Chicago Cubs: In Theo We Trust

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by the_speakers_lab, Mar 27, 2015.

  1. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,799
    Knowing the reds and if Javy plays tonight...he's going to wear on on the head. And if he doesn't play, another cub is going to wear one. I get it they hate each other and he was hype and it was funny, but that was a little much in that situation. Dude damn near didn't realize he had to get to first. I'm always pro talking ish but in tha situation maybe not to that extent. Honestly surprised Garrett didn't charge at him.

    The prospect return for big country was a decent one. The kid from low A they got can touch 100. He needs grooming but he's got the flame throwing down.
     
  2. butlerguy03

    butlerguy03 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,105
    Joey Votto is first-ballot, right? As a Reds fan, he is in my mind, but I'd like to hear what the rest think.
     
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  3. pjohnsto2003

    pjohnsto2003 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $8,319
    He should be, but he’s probably in year two or three given the futility that has generally surrounded him. Dude’s been pretty steady for a long time now.

    If Helton made it in, no doubt JDV does.


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  4. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $6,138
    Not yet he isn't. Not even 2000 hits 310 home runs, 1000 rbi, 1 MVP 1 Gold Glove. Not really playoff heroics. He's very good and probably definitely a Hall of Famer just not first ballot
     
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  5. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,822
    I think this is probably right. He is going to be a fascinating case because he is such a unique player.


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  6. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,799
    Later...Rizzo.
     
  7. Crash

    Crash Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $593
    Not to pop your bubble, but Votto is not a 1st ballot HOF and if my 1 blind example is still not HOF-worthy after 8 years on the ballot, Votto could be waiting a while.
    Player 1 was a 5x All-star, 1x MVP, 4x Silver Slugger
    Player 2 is Votto. 6x All-star, 1x MVP, 1x Gold Glove
    If you add 2 years of AVG Votto production, he will still fall well behind the important (2B, HR & RBI's) numbers of player 1. Unless Votto wins another MVP or has a huge offensive upswing to end his career, it won't be a quick path into the HOF.

    Screen Shot 2021-07-29 at 5.43.19 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2021-07-29 at 5.41.20 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2021-07-29 at 5.41.31 PM.png

    Also, anytime I look at a resume, I always grade them against Dale Murphy and he still is not in the HOF. 7x All-star, 2x MVP, 4x Silver Slugger, 5x Gold Gloves
    Screen Shot 2021-07-29 at 5.59.01 PM.png

    Sorry if I'm going analytics crazy, my buddies and I talk about the HOF process every year. We'd nerds like that.
    ...blind resume is Jeff Kent
     
  8. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,822
    I may be mistaken but wasn’t jeff Kent in the Mitchell report?


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  9. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,799
    The return for Rizzo *could* be good. The young kid they got in rookie ball fangraphs already slated him as the #2 prospect in the system. I don't buy that but he's highly regarded.

    The arm they got is 24 and rehabbing a shoulder (yeah the history of that with the cubs sucks) but he looks to be a power arm throwing near triple digits out of the pen.
     
  10. Crash

    Crash Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $593
    Kent has not been associated with steroids to my knowledge. His reference in the Mitchell report was to support stringent testing.
    "Kent was vocal about testing MLB players for HGH and other helpful ingredients. He went after Andy Pettite for using the excuse that Pettite took steroids to help him recover from an injury. That kind of stuff didn’t make him everyone’s favorite teammate."
     
  11. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $6,138
    That return is eh. The Yankees farm system really outside or Jasson Dominguez is pretty eh. Right now the pitcher Vizcaino, who has a better chance at a reliever with a plus fastball and plus change up, slots in at number 6 for the cubs farm and the outfielder, who I do like a little, slots in at 10.

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  12. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,319

    Remember the night he cracked a monster shot off the top of the neon Budweiser sign? Not going to lie. I'm sad this morning.
     
  13. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,822
    For a rental first baseman? You want them to do better than what they got? No way. I hate trading Riz but the return was strong.


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  14. jal8908

    jal8908 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,541
    I'll throw one more in there, another 1B who recently fell off the ballot.

    5X All-Star, 3X Silver Slugger who was clean in an era that very much wasn't.
    upload_2021-7-30_9-35-48.png

    Fred McGriff
     
  15. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,799
    From what I've gathered the path to the big leagues for Vizcaino is definitely reliever. Good relievers are fine and needed. But, I'd rather have a starter in return for one of these deals. Like one with upside. Then again, it's the cubs and the cubs destroy upside and make your arm fall off so...whatever.

    10ish for the youngling is more realistic than 2 to me. When that "2" number was being thrown around last night I took it with a grain of salt. Just not much to know yet only being stateside for a brief time. The potential is there for us to look back in a couple years and say it was a good deal...and maybe that's the case. We'll see.
     
  16. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $6,138
    I know Baseball and baseball prospects probably better than any sport, I love me some baseball analytics. Those two guys might be fine down the road, but to call this a strong return is just plain nonsense. We've seen rental players command top dollar, cough cough Torres and more for Chapman who then goes back to the Yankees...I would have preferred a 1 for 1 for Oswald Peraza, I'm guessing Dominguez, Clarke Schmidt and Deivi were off limits, and if that's the case Peraza would have been the play. Or wait and see till today. Again, you get some return but I just can't ever get behind saying this was a strong trade
     
  17. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,799
    A rental first baseman with a bad back. I was happy to unload him vs re-signing him because I think the back issues are chronic and getting worse as he ages. The immediate future probably will be very ugly, but the tear down is the right move.
     
  18. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,822
    We don’t live in that era anymore. We can’t compare what happened now to what happened then because the valuations are so different.


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  19. Tentozen

    Tentozen Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,549
    Not necessarily strong, but all you can expect given the situation.


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  20. Dunhamfor3

    Dunhamfor3 Active Member

    Money:
    $218
    Fire sale continues. Kimbrel and Baez gone now.

    Hopefully some of these prospects pan out. Let’s see what they get for Bryant.


    Would be nice if they get a bunch of prospects, and resign Bryant and Rizzo in the offseason. Just like Yankees did to us with Chapman


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