Chuck Harris - 2020 Point Guard (Signed)

Discussion in 'Current Butler Players' started by UDDawg, Dec 9, 2018.

  1. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,433
    Yes. Height is really stupid.

    It’s just one of those old timey things that won’t die and it distorts player evaluation significantly.

    The relevant measurements are clavicle height and wingspan. Or even simpler would be to just post standing reach.

    I always think of Cody Zeller as a good example of the distortion. He is a legit 6-11 without shoes and - not kidding! - has one of the best standing verticals in the NBA. This would suggest he’d be a rebound and blocking machine. He’s not. Why? His wingspan is awful, and he has a lot of height between his clavicle and the top of his head. So his standing reach (and thus effective height) is truly like that of a lot of 6-7 NBA forwards.

    Gorgui Deng is an inch SHORTER than Zeller and has a standing reach 6 inches higher. Tony Snell is 5 inches shorter than Zeller and their standing reach is within a half inch of each other. To take an extreme example the other way: Rudy Gobert is just 1.5 inches taller than Zeller and has a standing vertical nearly an entire foot worse than Zeller. Yet he’s one of the best defenders and shot blockers in the league and Zeller couldn’t guard a chair. Why? Gobert’s reach is insane - 9 inches higher than Zeller. Zeller is a significantly better athlete than Gobert, but it doesn’t matter when you’re spotting him 9 inches.

    We can only speculate with Butler, but I would imagine some distortion examples may be that Kam Woods had an effective height more like 6-11 or 7-0, and Kamar probably more like 6-4 or even 6-5. I’d bet Dunham’s effective height was more like 6-2 or 6-3.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2020
  2. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $15,916
    Ninety percent of all rebounds are at or below the rim which is why Rebounding has more to do with quickness off the floor and knowing angles. This is why both Sean and Nze are great rebounders yet Smits nor Golden aren’t yet both probably can reac higher. Golden needs to work on his quickness in the offseason. Blocking shots is definitely more about reach along with timing. Case in point Bill Russell was a better shot blocker than Chamberlain.
     
  3. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,433
    Those things are also important, but rebounds being at or below the rim does not mean reach is not important/a huge advantage. Of course it is.
     
  4. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $15,916
    Particularly if you are Tacko Fall versus Yogi Ferrell.
     
  5. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $11,433
    Sometimes you confuse the hell out of me.
     
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  6. Lukas Harkins

    Lukas Harkins Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,002
    Senior year highlights...(I'm happy to see a lot of his floater package in these highlights. Something I really liked about his game last summer. These highlights also seem to be relatively broken up by play-type, so don't be concerned about the lack of jumpers - those kick in around the 3 minute mark. Passing takes up the final minute.)

     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2020
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  7. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $15,916
    Thanks for sharing.
     
  8. dawg767

    dawg767 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $950
    Thanks Lukas. Regarding his 3 pt shot, I've seen better form but I really really like the quick release -- this will definitely translate at the next level.
     
  9. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,798
    His ability to get in the paint will make people dare him to shoot, if he's just average and think he's getting there if not there already, he's going to be a really, really tough PG to defend for us. Like others have said he's absolutely outstanding in the pick and roll and getting guys like Wilmoth, Golden, Coles, Scooby to have pop options will make him just devastating to deal with in the Big East
     
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  10. ThePioneerLeague

    ThePioneerLeague Active Member

    Money:
    $422
    I hate to be the guy that compares recruits to former players, but this guy reminds me of Mike Green. If he is half the player Mike was at Butler, we are in good shape!
     
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  11. ButlerBoyz

    ButlerBoyz Member

    Money:
    $132
    I like the optimism and hope you are right about Harris! The slightly behind AT on the defensive side may be a bit much. AT is an elite college defender and Harris hasn't defended in college yet. Could Harris get that good? Maybe. Wouldn't say he's that close yet though
     
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  12. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,798
    I agree, but his defense is what gets him on the court as a freshman ahead of some of the other freshman just like AT did. It's funny they come out of the same area and they both have that winner, gritty hard nosed Big East PG feel, we really should try and grab a DC quad best PG ever 2 to 3 years if we can, they are all playing with D1 talent, good coaching, and bred and trained to win

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
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  13. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $8,526
    He is bit more flashy with his assists than AT. His jump shot is really more of a set shot and has limited range but if it goes in with consistency, the defense will have to respect it. Love his runner and he can finish with either hand, based on the video, but more I see the more I like. He is more than sound defensively. Everyone should be on board with this recruit.
     
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  14. dawg767

    dawg767 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $950
    Harris will be a very good PG for Butler. Defense will not be an issue with him -- it is supposed to be his strength. That he was offered by Virginia should end any conversation about this. Will he be as good as AT on that end? Probably not. AT sets the bar very high there.

    On the offensive side, he already looks better than AT, where the bar is set undeniably low. In the end, it's not unrealistic that Harris ends up being a better PG than Thompson. I've said this before, but I believe we are set for the next 5 years at PG with AT's last year and 4 years of Tate and Harris to look forward to after that. Can't emphasize how important this is and how well it bodes for Butler's future.

    Have to give Lavall props for this. He understands probably better than anyone how important the PG position is to the long term success and stability of a college program.
     
  15. jkcdawgs

    jkcdawgs Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,303
    I would take AT, all day. Don’t get me wrong, I’m extremely excited for Harris, but AT is irreplaceable. AT’s offensive game will be improved next season, just like he added the floater in summer ‘19. Coach on the floor is invaluable.
     
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  16. dawg767

    dawg767 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $950
    He averaged 7 pts/game last year with this new 'weapon' and shot 8% on 3's. After 3 years, I would have thought we'd have stopped blindly hoping for AT turn it around on this end of the floor. He is what he is: a lockdown defender, great leader and orchestrator on offense.
     
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  17. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $15,916
    He has strange foot placement on his jump shot. He does remind me a bit of AT. Maybe not as quick. Of the two freshman backcourt players coming in I prefer Tate. He appears more athletic and quicker.
     
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  18. jkcdawgs

    jkcdawgs Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,303
    Never claimed he was a good three point shooter. He actually had some confidence built this offseason, hit a few, and then missed a few in a row and didn’t take another for the rest of the year. If that’s your only point, I’ll take a proven AT over Harris. By the time Harris is the starter, we’ll have scoring all over the floor and he’ll probably average right around 7pts as well.
     
    Insane Dawg likes this.
  19. dawg767

    dawg767 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $950
    You misunderstand me. By no means am I suggesting Harris start over AT in 2020. I'm saying I think he has a good chance of being better than AT when all is said and done. We'll see.

    And as a correction: AT made 1 three pointer last year. Missed 12.
     
  20. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $15,916
    Based on upside I’d go Scooby, Tate, Wilmoth followed by Coles then Harris
     

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