Conference Realignment - Big East Splitting

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by Jared Grubbs, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. Cooley

    Cooley New Member

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  2. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

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    No need to apologize. Your presence and input is welcome and I've enjoyed your thoughts.

    Cheers!
     
  3. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    Just saw on twitter that Fox offered Catholic 7 a 12 year, $500 million deal, pending the addition of 5 more teams. Holy crap.
     
  4. steelydan

    steelydan New Member

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    http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8831345/catholic-7-talk-tv-deal-commissioners-sources
     
  5. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

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    Which pretty much guarantees the league will be starting with 12 teams. I'd be curious to know if the network is nudging the C7 towards any specific teams/regions.
     
  6. Bulldog Grit

    Bulldog Grit New Member

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    The BigE5 (5 soon to be added teams) need to band together, like pronto and tell the C7 it needs to be equitable at a minimum in year 2 if not right off the bat. I know it sounds interesting, but should Butler join a conference where 7 members are making 5 million and 5 members are making 1 million.

    500 million divided by 12 = 40 million per year. The article states the C7 are currently making around 2.5 million now, but would double their earnings (5 million) based on the new contract discussions. So, to complete the math 7 teams X 5 Million = 35 Mil. 5 teams X 1 Mil. = 5 Mil.

    Maybe the BigE5 should hire basketball law firm and get group representation instead of each school's legal team trying to battle separately.

    What the hell do I know?
     
  7. peeps112

    peeps112 Well-Known Member

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    The problem with that thinking is that there is no set BigE5. Xavier, Butler are virtual locks (we think) and about 7 other schools want to be the last 3 (SLU, UD, Creighton, VCU, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, St. Joseph's, etc.).

    I don't think they will stick to the uneven distribution, though it does occur (Nebraska in Big Ten an example).
     
  8. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    Right, as a collective group, no one knows who is in really. And if the Catholic schools are smart, they don't make all the invites at the same time, and if the offered are smart, they use the leverage that every school you mentioned, save maybe St Mary's and St Joes, has.
     
  9. Cooley

    Cooley New Member

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    The C7 also have schools that are not been on the known list asking for consideration. As I said earlier I don't think there will be a 2 pay scale system, other than for some start up cost, but some schools that think they are in could be on the outside looking in.
     
  10. Bulldog Grit

    Bulldog Grit New Member

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    Well, of course there is no BigE5, yet. It wouldn't hurt to be proactive. If I were Barry, I am calling up my BigE5: SLU, Creighton, VCU, and Xavier AD's. Barry goes to Fox Sports and says we will join as this group. All 5 would have to want to do this and stick together. Fox Sports seems to be the one in the power position more than the C7.

    Does anyone think Gonzaga, St Mary's, St. Joseph's are really even being considered? Flying from Providence to Spokane - would that really be part of The BigEast?
    From a broadcasting stand point how would Fox Sports broadcast live weekday games. I guess all games would be 9 PM EST games to accommodate the 6 PM PST viewers. I know it sounds great to get Gonzaga involved, I just don't think it is practical. 7 PM games in Spokane would be 10 PM games for all of us East of Illinois. Hmmm, that works well for viewers when the game ends at 12:20 AM.

    St. Joseph's, I would be surprised if they are involved. Villanova is already a more dominant brand out of Philly. Fox news wouldn't be gaining another market by adding St. Joe's. Temple is even a bigger brand than St. Joe's when looking at the top Philly teams.

    VCU could provide another market in Richmond. SLU, Creighton, Xavier, and BU would all provide a great market. UD is a catholic school, but it is the smallest market of the group? Dayton is maybe too close to Columbus and Cincy and Indy to maybe be appealing to a big network.

    Lastly, remind me again which C7 school is really a brand name? Georgetown - Yes, Villanova - Yes, Marquette - Yes, St John's - yea kinda, Providence - maybe, Depaul - no, Seton Hall - no.

    BigE5 - All brand names except SLU.

    Just my thoughts.
     
  11. Cooley

    Cooley New Member

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    Might get some news this weekend with the C7 or B7 in DC this weekend, and the BE Football schools in Dallas Friday and Saturday.

    Also thought this was a good blog from Yesterday,

    (4) What is the TV Contract and Expansion Status for the “Catholic 7?? – The Catholic 7 defectors from the Big East (DePaul, St. John’s, Marquette, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Villanova and Providence) have upended the “football means everything and basketball means nothing” axiom of conference realignment. According to Darren Rovell of ESPN. com, Fox has offered $500 million over 12 years for the Catholic 7, with the assumption that the group adds 5 more schools to get up to 12 members. That figure will likely be larger than what the football playing schools in the Big East will receive for both football and basketball. I’ve said many times on this blog that football in and of itself isn’t what’s valuable, but rather quality content. In this case, the Catholic 7 are offering quality content in their sphere of non-FBS basketball schools with traditional schools in large urban markets. The problem with so many conferences is that they’re trying to apply the way that the Big Ten and SEC make money via football when they don’t have the assets to do it properly. It would be akin to a mom-and-pop corner store trying to run a business like Wal-Mart or Target without the requisite supply chain. Not every conference can be all things to all people in the manner of the Big Ten and SEC, so the Catholic 7 was smart enough to realize (or at least make the right decision when backed into a corner) that they can exploit a lucrative niche. They became the Trader Joe’s of college conferences as opposed to Wal-Mart, if you will. Instead of being subject to the whims of raids from the 5 more powerful football conferences as members of the hybrid Big East, the Catholic 7 have positioned themselves as arguably the most powerful non-FBS sports conference out there. The non-FBS market might be much smaller than the FBS market as a whole, but there’s something to be said to being #1 in the former with complete control of your destiny as opposed to #6 (or even #7) in the latter without any buying power.

    With the Fox offer apparently contingent upon the Catholic 7 adding 5 schools, that brings into question who would be the expansion candidates. Xavier and Butler have been continuously named by several separate outlets as locks, so that takes up the first two spots. The next 2 most likely targets appear to be Dayton (great fan base) and Creighton (ditto with a top notch on-the-court program right now on top of that). All 4 of those schools should feel fairly comfortable about getting into the new league with the Catholic 7 (which may very well still end up with the Big East brand name when all is said and done) with this news about Fox wanting a 12-team league. That leaves the last spot that appears to be a battle between St. Louis and Virginia Commonwealth.

    If I were running the Catholic 7, I’d definitely recommend SLU as school #12. From my vantage point, this is an opportunity for this group of schools to create a conference with branding that goes beyond athletics with like-minded institutions. Essentially, the new league can be to urban undergraduate-focused private schools in the Midwest and East Coast what the Big Ten is to large research institutions in the same region. In that regard, SLU is a perfect institutional fit with the Catholic 7 and the 4 other schools mentioned. SLU also has excellent basketball facilities and a solid history in the sport, so it’s not as if though this would be a poor on-the-court move.
    VCU, on the other hand, would purely be a basketball resume addition. Now, there’s certainly nothing wrong with that approach, as this new league is going to need top notch hoops teams on-the-court to gain the requisite NCAA Tournament credits to pay the bills. At the same time, VCU would be an Eastern-based addition to balance out all of the other probable expansion candidates that are located in the Midwest. However, I’m wary about VCU being an addition based on short-term results as opposed to long-term institutional fit. What surprises me is that there has been zero buzz about the Catholic 7 looking at Richmond, which has a solid basketball resume itself and is a better institutional fit as a private liberal arts school located in the same market as VCU.
    It’s not an accident that SLU was added by the Atlantic 10 immediately after Conference USA stopped its hybrid model after the Big East raids of 2003, while VCU and Butler were only invited this year. SLU would be a long-term move in a solid TV market that’s a great institutional fit and makes geographic sense assuming that the Catholic 7 wants to add Creighton. I have all of the respect in the world for VCU as a basketball program, but SLU would be best for the new Catholic 7 league for the long run.

    (Follow Frank the Tank’s Slant on Twitter @frankthetank111 and Facebook)
     
  12. Bulldog Grit

    Bulldog Grit New Member

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    I agree with the VCU long term issue. Yet, I can see the Fox Sports executives salivating over VCU in this new conference. Fox Sports could care less about long term fit. They need to launch their sports channel with as much hoopla as possible or some execs will lose their jobs. I don't agree with a conference being formed by money from media outlets, but that is what is happening today in college sports.
     
  13. Dogweed

    Dogweed Member

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    I am a little surprised I haven't seen more talk about Notre Dame being in the mix. Yes, they just got that new acc deal, but they are just like Butler in that regard....and catholic, and a great brand.
     
  14. Title

    Title Well-Known Member

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    The ACC is a superior basketball league and they are basically letting ND do what they want to do. That's analogous to the Horizon League offering Butler a spot back in the league.

    Now, BYU is another story altogether. (With Gonzaga)
     
  15. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

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    I still think Gonzaga makes a ton of sense. They obviously add a ton of talent and they also expand the conference reach from coast to coast and provide a completely new market. You hear about the Catholic 7 not wanting them because of travel, but I don't think that makes sense. In a 12 team league, you are traveling there not even once a season. And since it a flight, it's not really that big of a deal. The burden would be on Gonzaga, who would have to make an extended flight for every road conference game, but most indications have been that they would accept.
     
  16. DuckOnAModerator

    DuckOnAModerator Active Member

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    I think the problem is less about travel and more about the 3 hour difference in time zones. In order for gonzaga fans to see away games they will have to play at 9pm et. And their home games would all have to be at 6pm at the latest. Not to mention the fact that whatever station is broadcasting the rest of the league games they will be getting little to no viewership out of the Spokane market because the games will be played while everyone is still at work. I love gonzaga and think they would be a great addition but a 3 hour time zone change creates more problems than travel.
     
  17. ConnersvilleBulldog

    ConnersvilleBulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I honestly think adding Dayton would be redundant considering Xavier will already provide the market in that portion of Ohio. To me, Butler, Xavier, Creighton, and SLU all make the most sense. As for the last spot, I'd say its up to either Dayton or VCU. I think St. Joe's gets left behind because of Villanova. Likewise, had UMass not joined the FBS, I think they would've been a viable candidate.
     
  18. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

    Money:
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    I just think I would rather have Gonzaga than Dayton. I'd rather capture an entirely new market (both in tv and recruiting) than an overlapping market like Dayton. A large percetage of the games are played on Saturday anyways when it isn't an issue.
     
  19. Irishdawg

    Irishdawg Banned User VIP Member

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    Just make them convert to Central or Eastern time as part of the conference move. ;)
     
  20. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

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    I've never got the feeling Gonzaga is getting much consideration outside of fans and reporters speculating that there's a fit based on program success.

    Would love to see it happen. Would also be curious what kind of travel cost they would be incurring, because it would be significant. I'm also not sure how the WCC distributes out Tournament Credits. It sounds as though the new conference will share credits.

    I think Gonzaga would probably jump at the chance to join the new conference, but the costs to them would eat up a significant portion of the TV money they would receive.

    That said, I'll be surprised if they ever get any real consideration, which is sad. Would love to see Butler, Xavier, Gonzaga, Creighton, Georgetown, Marquette and Villanova in the same conference. It would be an annual 5-6 bid conference.
     

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