Conference Realignment

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by BigHoss, Jul 1, 2022.

  1. BigHoss

    BigHoss Well-Known Member

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    Starting a new thread on this, because I think yesterday was just the tip of the ice berg, and I think eventually it trickles its way down to us.

    I think it's inevitable that there becomes two "Super Conferences" with the Big Ten and SEC absorbing the main players in the ACC, B12, and PAC12.

    Where it becomes less clear is what happens to the "others".

    I'm a little worried that some of the leftovers who don't have necessarily strong football programs form a new Basketball Centric conference, and could poach some of the top dogs in the Big East. I'm thinking Duke, Kansas, Syracuse, Virginia, Wake Forest and a few others. Or maybe, the Big East absorbs these teams to form a basketball super conference?

    I think the Big East needs to be aggressive here, and go grab Gonzaga while they can to appear more enticing to the football leftovers. If Kansas and others want to join, awesome, but waiting around could lead to some of our top members being poached.
     
  2. Shane Davis

    Shane Davis Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    At least the Big East has something going for it and is already known prominently for being a "basketball conference." We're already learning that geography doesn't mean a thing anymore, so we might as well find schools that either fit the pedigree , or at least make sure that who we invite can't cause us to implode on ourselves like it did 20 years ago.

    • Gonzaga - Bring it on. They're the best option in my opinion.
    • Kansas - Similar talent level, not strictly a basketball school; but if they want to come I wouldn't say no.
    • Power 6 Leftovers - I have no strong opinion on it, but it does need to make sense in that it doesn't feel like a filler spot. I'm willing take a chance at inviting schools who are carrying a lot of momentum like Loyola, or bringing back legacy schools like Syracuse. Even then, in this changing climate, I would subscribe to quality over quantity.
     
  3. Daddysmack

    Daddysmack Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I have been pretty against adding to the conference in the past. I absolutely love the scheduling we have now.

    That being said, the dominoes are falling and it will eventually hit us if we don't act as a conference soon.

    Obvious immediate loser is the Pac12. Acc is probably next. The BE needs to pounce to fortify this conference before it is too late.

    Gonzaga seems obvious but may need a second west coast partner to help make it work like UCLA and USC did. Is it Saint Mary's? San Fransisco? At least you would pick up a major media market in Northern CA if you did that. Kansas on a UCONN type arrangement on top of that would fortify the conference, especially with a new TV deal coming soon.

    If you do that you can let the dominoes fall where they may fall. If there is an attractive ACC team or 2 then you can contemplate it.

    I fear if the BE doesn't do anything then whatever iis left of the ACC when this is said and done may look attractive to a couple of BE teams to create a different basketball centric conference.

    Odd times for sure!
     
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  4. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    Yea, I agree with you. If Gonzaga & Kansas are interested, those are no brainer adds for the sake of conference stability & strength. Would a potential Gonzaga & Oregon pairing work? Who knows what the leftovers of the Pac 12 are going to do. I know they aren't exactly geographically friendly but get a Gonzaga & Arizona? I'm all for making sure the teams the Big East are looking at add quality & not just a number. Syracuse, Notre Dame, Pitt are the obvious ones there, none of them really add anything to me other than just the history for the conference.
     
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  5. Daddysmack

    Daddysmack Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
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    For sure. I am personally out on Syracuse and Pitt. ND will never come here anyway. There time as an independent football program may be coming to ND end and they will need to hitch a ride with the best conference deal they can get. I assume that is the Big 10.
     
  6. firedupkaren

    firedupkaren Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    is there some logical number that makes sense for the Big 10 or SEC to stop expansion?
     
  7. butlerguy03

    butlerguy03 Well-Known Member

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    Stanford might be a good get to pair with Gonzaga...academic school who plays big-time football, but may not be able to compete in that sport in the current arms race.
     
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  8. butlerguy03

    butlerguy03 Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    Anti-Trust laws.
     
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  9. firedupkaren

    firedupkaren Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    Not sure I follow? I meant number of members by the way. The recent moves will take them both to 16.
     
  10. WKT1955

    WKT1955 Member

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    Even mediocre to poor football programs are finanically hard to de-emphasize. Thus I don't think schools like Stanford, Kansas, etc. would sacrifice football to join the Big East like UConn did.

    Legality aside, one has to wonder how practical a conference of 18 schools and up would be. At some point it is so big there is less and less identity with the conference. Divisions would start to be the big thing.

    Still, I like the idea of the Big East adding a couple schools. Of course, Gonzaga is attractive. But beyond GU, I think you look for private schools with dominance in a city and a serious playing facility. That's why I would prioritize St. Louis over Loyola.
     
  11. butlerguy03

    butlerguy03 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,522
    It was in jest, but honestly, there is no number until it becomes too unwieldly and factions begin to crack the size.

    The other option - state legislatures begin reigning in the state schools, maybe even asking for some of the income to be shared with the state.
     
  12. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $10,348
    This is a cash grab for TV money. See who's interested in benefiting and how many eyeballs live in their market. The Big East definitely wouldn't turn down Kansas City or Seattle as new markets.
     
  13. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    Kansas football is roughly the same level as BU football. KU is a basketball school.
     
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  14. Albick

    Albick Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
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    I wonder what the financial implications are of a really--I mean REALLY--bad football program. How bad?
    • Kansas has not won more than 1 conference game in a season in the last 13 seasons. Its conference record in that span is 8-106.
    • Kansas has had a winning conference record only 1 time in the last 26 seasons. It has had a winning record overall only 3 times in that span.

    A 2018 article (https://www2.kusports.com/weblogs/k.../12/kansas-football-crowds-smallest-of-all-i/) indicated that, at that time, Kansas had the lowest average home football attendance of any school in the Power 5 (26,641 in 2017). In 2018, attendance fell to 19,424, but increased to 33,875 in 2019 (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/Attendance/2019.pdf). I don't know what their 2021 average was but, just to pick a random game, for the Oklahoma at Kansas game on October 23, 2021, attendance was 26,321 (https://soonersports.com/sports/football/stats/2021/kansas/boxscore/11381).

    Clearly, its attendance is not good and has not been good for many years. Still, I assume that the sport still is very profitable due to the Big 12 TV contract.

    I saw one tweet indicating that Kansas was having internal discussions about the possibility of moving to the Big 10 but being independent in football (kind of the anti-Notre Dame; maintaining its independence because it is so bad). If the Big 10 would allow that, it would be a dangerous move from the Big East's standpoint, as it would put every Big East team in play.
     
  15. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member

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    I think its pretty clear Kansas just takes the football money from the Big 12 TV revenues and focuses their efforts on Basketball, so even in a depleted Big 12 they would still have ample reason to stay for all the same reasons. I don't know that there could ever be enough revenue from a Big East TV contract to move them. I think its more likey they would join a watered down ACC grouping with some lame football programs. Another school that seems to have a strong basketball focus is Houston, its no Kansas, but the Houston TV market looks pretty appetizing, and they have a pretty long record of producing quality teams.
     
  16. BoilerBulldog

    BoilerBulldog Active Member

    Money:
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    When the additional school isn’t additive to the overall payout for the each of the remaining schools. If the B1G is going to $100MM+, there are very, very few schools left. I think 20 is the logical ending point. I think you need more west coast schools for UCLA and USC and then you need to force ND to make a decision. I think UW, OR, and then ND+Stanford makes some sense. I don’t think any other schools do really.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  17. Staxawax

    Staxawax Well-Known Member

    Money:
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    Perhaps you take Washington and Oregon as travel partners- but I think any of the Pac areas in play. As travel partners… OU/OSU, UW/WSU, UA/ASU.


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  18. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
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    This was inevitable. With this being football driven, the looming questions for the future is, will the NCAA continue to exist? Will the BE still be around in the next 5 years? This is far from over...
     
  19. the_speakers_lab

    the_speakers_lab Well-Known Member

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    Here's why no ACC schools have left. Assuming the GR agreement stays binding, it is a huge no go for any University looking to bolt for the Big East
     
  20. the_speakers_lab

    the_speakers_lab Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $6,319
    I guess I'm contrarion, but I just don't get the allure of Gonzaga. Plainly, I just don't think they move the needle enough financially to justify adding travel to Eastern Washington. If we were getting a $100M and could privately charter our insert non-revenue sports team to Spokane for a midweek game, then sure do it. Totally makes sense and geography wouldn't matter, but that's not how it would be. Right now, I believe the Big East gets around $50M or a little over $4.5M per school for our tv rights. How much do you think Gonzaga increases that to (plus if you add a travel partner it slices that pie again)?

    Conversely, I wonder what the revenue/cost analysis would be like for Gonzaga to move to the Big East? They would be most affected by the travel. It's not like the WCC is going to let the basketball team walk and be a reantal house for the rest of their sports
     

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