Do we dare start a Seton Hall Game Thread?

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by willisbrown, Jan 3, 2022.

  1. butlerguy03

    butlerguy03 Well-Known Member

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    I refuse to allow what college kids do to dictate my outlook and attitude. People who obsess to the point of emotional attachment about sports are strange, and don't even get me started on those that comment on a high school kid's social media platforms.
     
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  2. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    Driving and getting to the free throw line is a great strategy until you drive into a 7’2” shot blocker like Obiagu and Edie of Purdue and you are 6’3” . Then what is your strategy? Well the only strategy I can think of is to get that shot blocker out of the paint. There isn’t a penalty for a defender being in the lane for three seconds. Only way to get that behemoth out of the lane is to pull your 4” shorter and less athletic big out to the perimeter and hope their big follows thus opening up the lane. What would cause their big to follow? Have your big hit perimeter shots. This is exactly what LJ did from a coaching perspective but Nze didn’t hit the threes. Guarantee you this was the strategy and not that Nze took bad shots. Maybe he is not a great three point shooter but what’s your options?
     
  3. knobcreekfan

    knobcreekfan Well-Known Member

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    Careful. I would not be too certain on that. Several of the posts I quoted in the other thread bashing our coach were directed at Brad. There were plenty to choose from calling him an awful coach. I did not see any calling for him to be fired, but I did not look that hard either.
     
  4. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    Recruiting is going to change dramatically going forward with the new transfer rules. There will be less emphasis on chasing after 17 and 18 years olds and sucking up to their parents. With over 2000 transfers a year Butler will get some.

    As for Tate and Wilmoth not playing and Harris coming off the bench. Tate is small and is not a shooter nor as good a defender as Taylor or AT. Tate will be the point guard next year or he will transfer. It’s up to him not LJ as to what decision he makes. Harris is not as good a defender as Bolden and frankly neither are hitting shots. So they are a toss up. As for Wilmoth he needs to get bigger and much stronger to be able to play at this level. He isn’t seeing the floor not because of favoritism but because he isn’t a game changer. If he is smart he will hit the buffet table and weight room every day in the off-season or transfer.

    If both Myles transfer it’s because they don’t see the opportunities or aren’t taking advantage of the opportunities with Nze, AT, Bolden , Groce, Hodges and David moving on after this season.

    If they stay great. If not they can be replaced. Leaving is on them. Not Jordan.
     
  5. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    If blows my mind how and why we are so bad at this. Like these are easy points that we are for some reason choosing to not try to take advantage of. I could see it if it somehow prevented you from running a half court offense where you were more efficient, but it’s in actuality the complete opposite!

    Not only does it not prevent you from getting into your offense if the transition basket isn’t there, or transition opportunity isn’t there, but transition opportunities are also more efficient!

    Turnovers should equal points and we are *choosing* for them not to.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
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  6. butlerguy03

    butlerguy03 Well-Known Member

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    Only Butler fans would understand how many times I am up in the 300's yelling "go go go" - especially when Luko, AT, or Taylor have the ball at half-court equal or greater numbers and they ALWAYS pull it out to set the offense.
     
  7. SCbulldogsfan4life

    SCbulldogsfan4life Well-Known Member

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    Wilmoth had plenty of opportunities earlier in the year. He didn't really show he could produce at a higher level than Hughes, and Hughes is stronger and has a better motor (reminds me of Wideman if he can get just a little taller lol). Lavall has been on record several times this season that the effort level needs to go up and stay up. A lot of us have complained about this as well. Hughes solves that problem better than Wilmoth in my opinion. To your point, Wilmoth and Tate will have plenty of opportunities next year. They will have up to 3 years each (if they desire) to leave their marks on this team. With Hodges, Nze, and Thompson electing to use their extra years and play for LJ, I have a hard time believing the Wilmoth, Tate, or anyone else would exclusively leave because of LJ. They would leave because they lack the talent , get homesick, or have attitude issues. If they leave because of those reasons, I think LJ would be willing to pay for their plane tickets out of his own pocket.
     
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  8. Coogles

    Coogles Active Member

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    Random comment, but I checked barttorvik.com this morning and, without the preseason weighting, Butler is now ranked 279th in adjusted offensive efficiency. Yikes.
     
  9. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    Offensive efficiency is a tempo- free statistical calculation of per- possession disregarding speed.

    It’s based on the idea that a possession can end in only one of three ways- an attempted field goal, a turnover or a free throw. An offensive rebound is negated by another of attempted field goal, turnover or free throw.

    There’s that stubborn turn over thing again. We are committing too many turnovers per possession. What happens to our offensive efficiency ratio if we cut the turnovers in half?
     
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  10. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    I'm talking about optimism from people regarding this program. I don't let it dictate my optimism on life. I'm talking strictly the future of this program which is headed into the abyss.

    I'll be fine, as always. Butler being awful sucks, surely. But my family life is a wee bit more important, same with work and health. Although, I thought I may experience my first heart attack last night with xfinity. What ass holes.
     
  11. Coogles

    Coogles Active Member

    Money:
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    For the season Butler is turning the ball over on 21.6% of possessions, 297th in division 1 according to barttorvik.com. Just being average would improve the overall offensive efficiency dramatically.
     
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  12. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    One last comment on recruiting then I’m going to get another cup of coffee. Brad Stevens went to the final four with a line up of Willie Veasley, Gordan Hayward, Shelvin Mack, Howard, Van Zant, Zack Hahn, Nored, Anglin, Rodgers, Avery Jukes,Emerson Kampen, Garerett Butcher, Stigall, Andrew Smith.

    I think one was a four star and the rest were 2 or 3 stars. Hayward was a gift. Not a lot of schools were drooling over the rest of the players other than Howard. That roster is at best a mid major recruited roster except for Mack, Howard and Hayward. Yes Brad was a savant but he didn’t set the world on fire with the Celtics and is no longer a coach. How many top D1 coaches are there? Forty maybe. One out of ten?

    Quiz

    Who had the below five year record as a HC in conference yet is ranked this year?

    7-11
    8-10
    3-15
    6-12
    6-12
     
  13. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    Your faith in LJ is strange to me. I mean go on with it but you may die on that hill alone.
     
  14. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    The roster had 2 multi-contract NBA players and an elite college player/euro pro. If you have three great players, you’re going to win a lot. I’m lost on the point you’re trying to make.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2022
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  15. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    OK back from getting the last cup of coffee. Emotionalism rules most all of us when in the moment. I’m the same way. To what degree is different for everyone. I too pulled my hair out over the threes Nze took, the other threes missed by Harris and Bolden, the turnovers and the loss. During the excitement of the game as a fan I miss the trends and strategy shifts which is why I re watch games. This is what HC do. They watch a lot of tape to figure out failings , successes and game plan. Us fans wing it yet we think we have all the answers, Actually some of us have all the answers.

    Guarantee you Brad Collier knows better than any of us what LJ is trying to do. LJ can’t make the shots and he can’t pass the ball or not dribble off his foot.
     
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  16. butlerguy03

    butlerguy03 Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention several coach-level guys too.
     
  17. knobcreekfan

    knobcreekfan Well-Known Member

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    My point the other day of posting bad takes from prior years is that in literally the most successful decade of Butler Basketball, the board was full of negativity and ridiculous analysis. If the opinions were that f*ed up then, why on Earth would we put any weight in the opinions of those same posters now?

    With that, I appreciate the thoughtful analysis some of you have provided.

    Similar to butlerguy, I do not let the performance of this team determine my attitude about anything in life. The way some of you react say WAY more about you and your life than it says about the program.
     
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  18. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

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    You lost me when you say Bolden is a better defender than anyone. I have never, well I shouldn't say never, but he is one of the worst defenders I have seen, you can think what you want about Harris's defense but I'd take him over Bolden any day forever...
     
  19. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    “If the opinions were that f*ed up then, why on Earth would we put any weight in the opinions of those same posters now?”

    This is why I have chosen not to respond to certain posters or ignore them entirely. Why supposed fans watch the games then have conniption fits afterwards is one of the mysteries of life. Go do something else like read a good novel or watch “ As the World Turns” or “ One Life to Live”
     
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  20. Shane Davis

    Shane Davis Well-Known Member

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    I think I get what you’re trying to say, but that excuse can pretty much be used for most every coach out there before they end up getting fired. Most coaches have a game plan, they implement it, then run it, and then the results dictate whether they continue running it again. The goal is to recruit to your preferred playing style, but eventually a good coach has to adjust to the personnel he has. LaVall has made some adjustments, but it’s not making teams change how they play us, so that’s either the fault of the players or it’s the coaching staff - We have to decide which one. For anyone here who thinks another coach can do better with the same roster, then you know what their answer is; and if Collier decides to extend LaVall after this season, we now know his answer as well.
     

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