Fair Pay to Play Act

Discussion in 'Around the League' started by seadawg, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,367
    This California bill could very easily change the face of the NCAA in the next 3 years? It passed 100% in favor.
     
  2. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,367
    I was hoping for some spirited debate since "fair pay to play" is likely to be signed by Gavin Newsome. It does have national implications. Specifically, what are pros and cons concerning BU?
     
  3. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

    Money:
    $16,010
  4. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

    Money:
    $16,010
    I actually read most of the bill a little while back. I’m not a lawyer, but it seemed to me to indicate that not only can players not be prohibited from receiving endorsement money, but that there can be no limitations on it. This is something the NCAA simply can’t adopt IMO. You might as well fully open it up and directly pay players because anyone could pay any player and simply call it endorsement money.

    I would actually see it as a valid business opportunity in some cases. Imagine a business that makes it known that they give a 500k endorsement deal to every IU player? That’s going to be a very popular business in the state of Indiana, and for the right business could be well worth the 6.5 million investment per year. Or choose whatever number you want. I could even see this even opening the door for actual crowdfunding campaigns to help recruit players as well.

    I have no problems with giving athletes more money, but there has to be more restrictions and regulations around it. I’m sure that’s a big reason they simply don’t allow it at all, because that’s the easiest way to restrict it and they don’t want to open up even more loopholes.

    Regardless it’s going to be interesting to see what happens. Somebody has to bend. The current law will basically force California schools out of the NCAA as currently stands. Would that be the death of the NCAA or those power programs in California? I can’t imagine either side wants to find out.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
  5. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $13,067
    Excellent perspective.
     
  6. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,324
    If the NCAA simply bans Calif. schools, every 4 and 5 star player will go out there to play for pay. The AP top 25 will be only Calif. schools, and their state tournment will be far more compelling than the NCAA tournament - Pepperdine and UC Riverside will become powerhouses and garner lucrative TV contracts.
     
  7. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,367
    There are law makers considering and purposing this on the national level as well. This is not only about money. It's about power and control over the players.
     
  8. jal8908

    jal8908 Active Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,157
    The thing that the Pay to Play supporters always fail to address is that these kids do in fact have options. They can go play overseas and get paid. They can go to the G League and get paid. Soon the NBA's one and done rule will likely go away. So why do these 5* stud prospects continue to go play in college where they can't get paid (at least legally)?

    The college game still offers the best exposure to help maximize long term earnings potential. Besides hardcore fans, people really don't know about the top prospects coming out of high school (LeBron/Zion types excluded). Playing a year of college ball helps develop their brand (NCAA tourney glory, school support, etc) and makes them much more attractive to companies for sponsorship. Trey Young is a great recent example. I knew nothing about him prior to his freshman year and he ended the year as one of the biggest names in the sport. He doesn't get that in the Europe or the G League.

    The guys that aren't going to the league get a benefit too. Look at the number of Butler players that have been able to get into coaching and have a career in their passion. Then you have guys that were at least decent students and graduated with a degree that have something to put on their resume that bare minimum could get them in the door for an interview they otherwise wouldn't have chance at and best case the hiring manager is an alum and puts them on the top of the list to where they just have to not mess it up.

    All that said, I do think allowing a University stipend similar to what a normal college kid could make with a part time job is a reasonable concession. Let them have a little money in their pocket to go grab pizza or see a movie and be normal college kids without opening up a bidding system where Oregon gets every great player because they have Phil Knight's $$$ behind them. Have a maximum cap on what the stipend can be and figure out some method of reporting on what is being paid out to who and when.
     
  9. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,367
    One way or another the landscape is changing. BU players are capable of getting stipend pending housing and meal plans. Pooling efforts to share rent on a house to divert scholarship money, allows for this currently. Iowa football players often qualify for federal subsidized housing (section 8). I won't say players are getting wealthy but often they can afford more than pizza. I think legislators want to be on the right side of history with this, but it is only beginning.
     
  10. Crash

    Crash Active Member

    Money:
    $268
    Payment for likeness is hard to argue against, but as said earlier, what stops the power brokers from investing in companies to funnel "Sponsorship" money? Come to "Power 5 school" and we'll have your in a laundry list of advertising spots and will pay you $millions." Wink wink.
    Again, it's tough to argue against someone being paid for their image, but schools like Butler will struggle, as our alumni base cannot compete with the likes of almost all Power 5 schools and many non-Power 5 schools.
     
    Insane Dawg, Jared Grubbs and seadawg like this.
  11. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,367
    No question that this has opened up a stinky can of worms. The NCAA will have to compromise without question. Solutions will not come easy as there too are many complexities to mention.
     
  12. The Hound

    The Hound New Member

    Money:
    $56
    It seems fairly simple. Let them market their name or a personally trademarked logo, but nothing with a team/school likeness. If a lineman from podunk Kansas can raise $7500 from selling $15 dollar T-shirt’s to everyone in his hometown, great. If a star running back from California raises $500,000, then good for him. The NCAA needs to bend, or it's going to get crushed.
     
  13. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,324
     
  14. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,324
    You can do that, but if a 4 star prospect intends to make bucks selling his Tee Shirts is he going to commit to Butler or Ohio State? No matter how you slice it the big guys win.
     
  15. The Hound

    The Hound New Member

    Money:
    $56
    Which will always be the case. At least the lineman has the chance to make some pocket money and drive a decent car during his four years. You should always own your name.
     
  16. Crash

    Crash Active Member

    Money:
    $268
    In many industries, if you are given something, ala a contract, you do not own your naming rights early in a career. I.e. music entertainers, military, defense contract employers, FBI, contracted models, most corporations (unless approved prior) and many more. If I work for Google and want to pub my likeness on a shirt, NO ONE will care. If I pub my likeness on a shirt with a Google logo, that is against my employment agreement. But, if I'm a wiz kid developer, and Google wants to pub my face on a Google t-shirt, which many employment agreements allow without further compensation to the employee. The University or College is the employer in this example.
    I've said, I'm not against someone earning money for the image, but it's not so simple. The first time Butler loses a Kamar Baldwin type transfer after 1 year, because IU alumni have money to pay for his likeness and Butler's alumni cannot compete, let's see how everyone feels.
    Hell, if I had billions, I'd buy the best 1 year wonders, who are not immediately going to the NBA.
    Football would be worse. You have to stay 3 years, so if you're an absolute stud from a non-power 5 conference, you'll be re-recruited all the time. Sit 1, take a bigger pay day and play your Jr and Sr year. Where power 5 schools routinely redshirt FR, their better option would be to play for a lesser school to raise awareness of their abilities and cash in. Wait, that sounds like the professional ranks...it is.
    And imagine a highly paid college athlete receiving advice from an agent. Zion returned for March Madness for Zion and Duke. If an agent is in his ear every day during rehab, my guess is Zion sits out March Madness to ensure 100% health for NBA draft.
    This is a tricky topic and simply saying that players should be paid is not that easy.
     
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  17. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,367
    As I stated earlier this is as much about authority over the players as it is money.
     
  18. MasterSplinter

    MasterSplinter Active Member

    Money:
    $430
    The reason they dont have to address it is because the alternatives to the NCAA have little to no bearing on the fundamental issues of NCAA pay to play. Should NCAA athletes receive compensation is not dependent on what other professional options exist. And I believe you are making the argument for those contesting the NCAA. It's clear playing NCAA hoops MAY help develop a player's individual brand but currently they have no right to that brand, and in fact it can and has been argued that NCAA members benefit from that unallowed right. @Crash makes a good point in the other post where other employers in other industries clearly define the terms for use of likeness in a contract or other agreement or employee handbook. BUT the NCAA goes out of its way to ensure LOIs are not contracts and therefore student-athletes (ahem...bullshit term) are not employees. Thus there is no contractual agreement on likeness but the NCAA just blanket prohibits players from use of likeness. The NCAA has dug its own grave here by fighting employee status all these years which is why the use of likeness is such a clever way to attack the system. Also for good or bad, there is something supremely American about having the right to your own likeness (or at the very least the right to negriatie rights of likeness), which will play good in media/public for those contesting.

    We better get ready for Euro style pro club systems, which pay players AND also typically sign partnerships with schools or setup their own academies to allow players to complete their education (imagine!). In this case it will be reversed with the education providers (NCAA members) going and finding pro sponsors to setup their pro club teams that are partnered with the NCAA member. If you were a very savvy sports marketer in a fortune 500 company right now I bet you've already got your rolodex of donors and Uni pres lined up.

    Another scenario I've thought about is one where the NBA senses this all essentially leading to lots more pro teams and lots more competition (assuming the new Coca Cola Duke Univ Blue Devils wont have an age or eligibility restriction) and begins to lobby HARD in support of NCAA. I would love to see the stance the NBPA would take in that scenario.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
    seadawg likes this.
  19. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

    Money:
    $16,010
    California Governor did sign this into law, although it doesn’t start until 2023. It’s going to be interesting to see what follows next. My expectation is that other states pass their own laws. Unless the NCAA can get this overturned in court (I have no clue if their unconstitutional claim has any validity) the landscape of college sports is going to change.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
  20. SchlabbaDawg

    SchlabbaDawg Active Member

    Money:
    $3,135
    It's being introduced in Illinois. NCAA will eventually have no choice but to address this issue.
     

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