Federal documents detail NCAA violations

Discussion in 'Around the League' started by Mark Shelvin, Feb 23, 2018.

  1. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $17,097
    Great hire.
     
  2. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $9,859
    Dakich is on fire today and on the money. IMHO
     
    pjohnsto2003 likes this.
  3. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $10,301
    It's not up to LaVall if he would leave. It's up to Barry to make sure the checkbook is ready so he doesn't. The call will come someday.
     
    SpartanDawgs likes this.
  4. MasterSplinter

    MasterSplinter Active Member

    Money:
    $495
    I don't have a problem with letting those guys turn pro instead of adopting a system to keep them in college for a year and I hope others wouldn't either.

    However, the NCAA and its top programs will have a problem if the Top 100 recruits all start forgoing college ball. The NCAA and its members don't have a problem with it now because it's only a recruit here or there so they still have a viable product. How many recruits will it take for that to change? 10/Top100, 20, 50, all of them? How does Coach K compete for a top 100 recruit with a domestic pro league team that offers the recruit $25,000+ (and that's the floor here, it could easily be more because the G league salary is arbitrary. top 100 recruits might get more in 6 figure land) especially when Coach K can no longer play fast and loose with NCAA rules? And offering a college degree isn't going to entice anyone because these recruits could still enroll at a university and get a degree in addition to their pro careers. If I'm not mistaken, the G league pays for online courses at Arizona State for its players.

    To a degree I agree with the point about players using schools as much as schools use them, but that's hard to judge because the alternatives (overseas and G league) are still quite inadequate in assessing just how much schools or players use the other. Additionally, while NCAA players may get more exposure, ultimately wouldn't one be more concerned with development? Clearly some NCAA programs are great at developing talent, but so are many Euro teams, and I think many recruits (and their advisors) are starting to question the status quo of college ball equals best path of development. The Ball family are controversial, but they've clearly made this conflict the most visible. If you say to a recruit, you are going to be invisible for a couple of years playing in G league or overseas, but you'll be NBA ready sooner wouldn't that trump everything?
     
  5. SpartanDawgs

    SpartanDawgs Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $232
    What is he saying?
     
  6. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $9,859
    Calling out coaches, telling what players get, integrity etc. How to fix it. Although he know it will never happen. I often disagree with him but not today. He is 100% correct.
     
  7. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $8,843
    Today for two hours on ESPN, the entire talk was about NBA players blasting the NCAA and a push to develop the G League and give players options other than college.
     
  8. troggy

    troggy Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,135
    I agree with you here. If the G-League gets to be more viable in terms of salaries, it'll be interesting to see what happens. Viability really depends on value. How can the G-League market itself so that it makes enough money to pay a decent salary? The NBA could clearly throw money at it but I don't think that's a good long term solution.
     
  9. MasterSplinter

    MasterSplinter Active Member

    Money:
    $495
    It could succeed. I mean, people go to A league baseball games for some reason and they also still go to NCAA baseball games. We are talking all kinds of hypothetical but its clear that both recruits, those around recruits, and even present NBA players (cough cough LeBron) see that college players are no where near compensated where they should be, especially the most talented. I don't know how much a player is exactly worth, but it's clear they are not getting it:
    http://uk.businessinsider.com/college-basketball-player-value-2017-3?r=US&IR=T
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...layer-is-worth-212080/?utm_term=.57476f6b2899

    And yes, the NCAA teams will always make money because of the fan bases you mention not because of the players on their teams (although I think there is an argument to say you can't just put anyone out on the court), so no, taking away the top 50-100 recruits won't hurt the NCAA business model. This is why even if the talent level of NCAA players decreased dramatically, there would still be money in it. Yet those new faces of the league should STILL get fair compensation. But if you are going to compensate the new faces, why not just compensate the old faces (the more talented players) to come play for your school/team and do away with the whole student-athlete model? Because they have no competition and thus no incentive, which is the the exact argument you make. That's why if change does happen (for both the NCAA and players) it will be from a disruption from an additional domestic league. I hope but am not certain that once there is a half way decent alternative to the NCAA then college basketball will adjust by paying players. Whether that league is the BBB league, a reformed G league, the Nike league, the I'm-starting-a-pro-league-because-I'm-LeBron-James-and-I-don't-want-my-sons-getting-used-by-the-NCAA-league or the Big 12 league (because it could retain more of the revenue than sharing with the NCAA) it won't matter because I think everyone is too wise now to the player compensation argument.

    While I admittedly find the whole idea of creating scenarios of made-up pro leagues fun, the only reason it is even in play is because a) college players are not being compensated properly and b) the NCAA has no intention to compensate them properly and the players have no recourse to compel the NCAA to do so (see players are not employees and thus cannot unionize and thus cannot have a CBA). If the NCAA started properly compensating players today, then it would kill all discussion of alternative leagues. I don't believe they will and hope they will be compelled to by an alternative scenario, preferably LeBron retiring in four years and becoming the Commissioner of his own pro league!

    Notice all of this still applies regardless of whether the NBA changes eligibility back to 18 yrs old. In fact, an additional domestic pro league might compel more players to declare for the draft knowing they have an alternative place to play than the NCAA if they go undrafted. The players that go down the NCAA route will still be under-compensated (because the NCAA is a big bad money making machine even if the guy from your local Y plays for UK) and ironically it would probably strengthen the NCAA's argument that NCAA basketball players are students, not employees, since they can enter the alternative pro market for employment if they wish to do so. Say it with me now...Commissioner Lebron James!
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  10. MasterSplinter

    MasterSplinter Active Member

    Money:
    $495
    Saw an idea on The Ringer or SI (can't remember) that proposed having G league games played before the NBA game and charging fans a $5 upgrade to be able to watch both. Kind of like a JV/Varsity setup so you could watch and support some of the talent in the pipeline/available. But as was noted by @the_speakers_lab that talent may not really be in the pipeline. Still an interesting idea that would help develop fan bases and buy-in.
     
  11. troggy

    troggy Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,135
    Class A baseball players don't make any money though. It's one of the reasons why a lot of guys choose college baseball over going pro right out of high school.

    The reason Class A baseball works is because the major leagues have had a solid minor league structure for over 100 years. But even there, major league franchises don't have anywhere near the number of minor league affiliates that they used to.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  12. FlyForaWeitzGuy

    FlyForaWeitzGuy Active Member

    Money:
    $167
    Even if they aren’t profitable, they’re a developmental necessity for the sport. It’s helpful for basketball but nothing close to a necessity.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  13. kmacker69

    kmacker69 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $6,217
    So many NBA affiliated people saying the NCAA needs to pay the players... It's not an NCAA problem, but an NBA problem. They pushed the one and done players down to the NCAA with out a viable option if they weren't willing to commit to more than a year at the school to get the education that would pay them back in spades for they're time at the school!

    NBA or some of the players that have **** tons of money need to make a place for the only want to go to the NBA guys to play... The guys that want to get schooling for a degree will still play and the NCAA will be better off for the one and done players having a viable option instead of mucking up the amateur system with NBA scouts getting involved.
     
  14. Red1972

    Red1972 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,729
    I don't watch or follow the NBA, could care less. The NBA Players Association will never allow the one and done to go away, 12th, 13th, 14th, and 15th players on
    benches would have to much to lose. Plus college ball costs the NBA nothing.
     
  15. the_speakers_lab

    the_speakers_lab Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $6,276
    [​IMG]
    Oh my. Sorry Harry, but we got some great hot takes
     
  16. IndieDawg

    IndieDawg Active Member

    Money:
    $2,087
    Never gets old


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    DawgsMD likes this.
  17. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $9,642
    Part of the reason the players association pushed for one year of college basketball was because roster spots for veteran bench players were being lost to teams drafting 18 year olds who got guaranteed contracts (by virtue of being drafted in the first round) but who weren't really court ready.

    In the interim the G League has grown significantly and the model has shifted to single-team affiliation with nearly every NBA team now having an affiliate. All the league needs to do for the players to be OK with the one-and-done rule going away is adjust the roster rules, which they've done somewhat already but not completely, so that teams can assign several players to the G League without maintaining roster spots for them on the parent club.
     
    troggy likes this.
  18. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $9,859
    Until universities and coaches decide to have some integrity, the cheating will continue. This is not an NBA or NCAA problem. It is the problem of programs that are devoid of leadership.
     
  19. Red1972

    Red1972 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,729
    Prediction: Nothing will come of this whole thing, coaches will continue to cheat and the same programs will continue to prosper. Petino lost his job, maybe
    Sean Miller but that will be it. Book it!
     
  20. ArizonaXU

    ArizonaXU New Member

    Money:
    $37
    The baseball and hockey system is an optional solution. The 100k yo 5* players needs to stop.


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