Front Row Hoopcast Episode 5

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by Jared Grubbs, Jan 3, 2018.

By Jared Grubbs on Jan 3, 2018 at 4:13 PM
  1. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member


    Butler squeaked out an OT win vs Georgetown, then beat #1 Villanova. They lost to top 5 ranked Xavier on the road, and plenty of questions remain about the team.

    1:00- Conference Play Begins
    5:20- Nova Win a Fluke?
    8:01- Team Goes With Paul Jorgensen
    11:05- Kelan & Kamar Show
    14:10- Aaron Thompson Offensive Woes
    17:00- Looking Forward to Big East


Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by Jared Grubbs, Jan 3, 2018.

    1. DarthHoltmann
      So did people just stop listening to these because of the ridiculous criticism by Ari? This one seemed much better, yet no comments. I usually just lurk but I had to log back in just to say I enjoyed this one more than any of the others.
      Mad_Dawg 48 likes this.
    2. seadawg
      IMO the AT starting debate is a moot point. Since his emergence into the starting lineup BU has lost to 2 quality opponents along with winning a true road game and collecting a victory against Nova. LJ's recent comment about 79 points being enough to win in the BE shows his true feelings about the importance of defense and setting that tone early in games. That is why AT has started up to this point since McD's ankle injury. Obviously that could change but why fix something that seems to be working in general.
    3. Irishdawg
      I listened, and agree that it wasn't as ridiculous as some of their others. Ari definitely still has his bias' towards the coaching staff and Jorgensen IMO, but at least he's willing to admit they've done some good things.

      Was the Nova shooting percentage a fluke? Of course it was. It's a fluke for any team to shoot that well from deep, let alone one who isn't very good at 3 point shooting.

      In terms of the depth, I don't know what the coaches are supposed to do. Are Kelan and Kamar (and Jorgensen probably too) playing more minutes than is ideal? Yeah, but I think Kelan at 80% is better than David at 100% right now. Doesn't mean I don't think he'll contribute in the future. Kamar there honestly isn't an answer for. They don't want AT playing because he's not a capable shooter, yet they're worried about Kamar wearing down and there's basically 3 guys splitting 80-100 minutes per game. Brunk and David have some developing to do before they're ready for the Big East IMO, and JGB has more than them. I think all can contribute though during their careers, and probably will be doing so next season.

      Jorgensen's inconsistency - I mean other than Kelan and Kamar (who just started playing to his capabilities offensively recently), who on this team has been consistent in their offensive performance? They're a young team. Inconsistencies in performance are going to occur. I do like what Baddley and McDermott have brought to the table, but still can't rely on point production consistently from them.
    4. troggy
      Agreed, it's not ideal but probably about as good as Butler can hope for, right now. Obviously, Thompson has to play. He's by far the most ready of the freshmen. They need the 8 man rotation. His defense is a plus too.

      Well that's just it, you might as well be picking on the entire team for that. Martin shot about 18% from three over the first 7 games. He's up close to 40% since then. The whole team has had its inconsistencies. Jorgensen is invaluable to this team.
      Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
    5. schoops
      I'm wondering if we could get Kamar some rest playing PJ at the point with McDermott, Baddley, and Martin in together. We'd give up a lot of quickness on defense, but we'd be longer and could switch almost everything.
    6. troggy
      Up until the last couple of games, I was actually hoping they'd play Jorgensen some at PG and let Baldwin play more off the ball. Not sure how long a lineup with neither Thompson nor Baldwin would be out there. Might work for a few possessions.
    7. Hinkle
      I think a few minutes’ rest *within* games here and there can be important, and Martin and Baldwin do generally get a few minutes of rest here and there. But I️ don’t buy the notion that playing 36 mpg twice a week for 4-5 months will gradually wear down a 20 year old.

      When NBA guys rest, it’s because they’re logging 35 minutes 3-4 times a week for 6 months (and there’s certainly a difference in recovery being 28 vs 21 years old).

      Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
      Insane Dawg, Mad_Dawg 48 and troggy like this.
    8. seadawg
      LJ has done a decent job of getting players extended rest with in reason by using TOs and TV breaks. Fouls or match-ups have dictated a few exceptions. As players develop hopefully LJ will have more options. I feel either AT or KB are a necessity to stop the ball on defense at this point. I have zero issues with PJ's effort but his defense and passing are nowhere near that of AT or KB at this juncture. Of course he could used at point if needed in a pinch.
    9. troggy
      I actually think Jorgensen is a good passer and he takes care of the ball. His assist to TO ratio is about 3.5:1. I agree about the defensive side of the ball though. You really need Thompson, Baldwin or both on the floor for defense.
      Insane Dawg and SpartanDawgs like this.
    10. seadawg
      I overstated "nowhere" and yes he does have great stats but not as primary ball handler. His value is as a space creator not a setup man. Could he play point? Absolutely. Although he is more valuable cutting and staying out on the wings when the offense is relying on sets and not fast breaking in the open court. IMHO
    11. Insane Dawg
      Insane Dawg
      PJ is an excellent passer and ball handler. Not sure why anyone would say otherwise. His A/TO ratio of 3.36/1 is far superior to KB or AT and is tops on the team. I don't think he has been that inconsistent. Sure his three hasn't always fallen but the misses usually are pretty close. He's also the third leading scorer on the team and with McD the best three point shooter, I'm not sure his defense is worse than AT who gets fewer rebounds and commits more fouls than anyone on the team. What are their comparative efficiency numbers on both ends of the floor? Those usually are the final answer for several of you guys. To me ball movement appears better with Fowler, PJ, McD, KM and with KB at the point. I like AT a lot but it appears he isn't playing as well against BE competition as he was against low majors. I don't have a problem with him starting or the minutes he is playing. But to say he is a better passer, defender and more consistent than PJ to me is a stretch.

      A typical 40 minute game takes 2 hours to play if not more. Thus there is lots of rest time. I don't think KM or KB are at risk of wearing down. They should be able to play 36+ minutes.
      Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
    12. ConnersvilleBulldog
      I completely agree. The whole team (including Kamar) has been inconsistent this season. It just seems like Ari is judging Jorgensen on a completely different criteria than anyone else. Before the season, every single Butler fan would absolutely be happy to hear that Jorgensen will average 12 ppg and shoot 42% from 3. If that doesn't exceed your expectations, then your expectations were set too high.

      Also, not sure what they have against him dribbling? He only has 11 turnovers all season. Compared to 39 assists.
    13. Insane Dawg
      Insane Dawg
      Like most of us on here Ari is trying to justify his initial opinions and is having difficulty in saying he was and continues to be wrong. Its called hindsight bias. PJ at this point has been a far more important transfer to this team than anyone since Rotnei. Without him we would have been in a dire situation.
    14. seadawg
      The fact that PJ has efficient numbers indicates LJ is utilizing him properly to maximize his potential.
    15. Insane Dawg
      Insane Dawg
      Is that true that he has reached his potential? What are his numbers compared to AT and KB on both offense and defense?
    16. dawgs2014
      I mean his efficiency in no way proves any sort of maximization, but I think Jorgensen is really our only guy who can hit coming off a screen and that’s an important thing to make a defense prepare for.

      Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
    17. MSUDawg
      I thought about this for about an hour, and given that the season is only half gone, I thought it was off the mark. But the more I think about it, I think you may turn out to be right - I was going to suggest we put it on queue for the cold takes list - but maybe not.
    18. Insane Dawg
      Insane Dawg
      My comment may end up on the cold takes list. But think about it. Not Woodson nor Savage or Etherington were as productive nor had as big an impact as PJ. And to think some thought( me included) he was a wasted scholarship. I'm excited to see more of him through next year. The kid loves being at Butler and we all need to be on board. To me he is a godsend. Can't imagine where we would be without him.
    19. seadawg
      I was talking about maximizing the potential with this team's make-up. PJ as I recall came to BU as point guard so it's evident can play that position but it's not necessary with BUs other guards. It's possible his production could go up if he were at point but would that help the team? Hard to say. My hope is his play becomes more consistent in his current role. One could argue PJ is a more complete player than RC was. He has been a huge asset so far. He has changed my opinion of his play after the first few games.
      Insane Dawg likes this.

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