Game Thread: Butler vs DePaul (12/29)

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by ConnersvilleBulldog, Dec 28, 2021.

  1. TheDawgDub95

    TheDawgDub95 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    24 points during the first 10 minutes was fun to see, but I just realized that we were back at a 52 points per game scoring clip from that point forward...

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  2. Tentozen

    Tentozen Well-Known Member

    For those who say LaVall doesn’t work the refs enough, he was in their ear all night tonight. Spent half of one timeout yelling at the one idiot who made 75% of the calls. And many of them wrong both ways. He was plain awful.

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  3. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member


    Hall may not have enough guys to play on Tuesday at this rate. Willard sounds pissed.
  4. Tentozen

    Tentozen Well-Known Member

    Thompson was amazing . 7 steals, and played great d on Freeman-Liberty, holding him to 4-16, and 1-8 on threes. He was really frustrated. AT also with 7 assists.

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  5. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    I am far from the biggest Golden apologist....even so y'all are kind of being a little vagina-ish about his hook and hold. Is it a foul? Yes. Should we be screaming it was a dirty play...nah. I've/we've seen 20 times worse.

    Those boys aren't out there to be choir boys. They're out there to physically play hard as hell and if that means a couple chippy plays, sign me up. No issue.
  6. BJK

    BJK Member

    Thanks. I was at the game and missed it. Go Dawgs!
  7. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member


    This is D1 basketball! Go Play intramurals brother!
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  8. Staxawax

    Staxawax Well-Known Member

    Followed the game on Gametracker while embroiled in a ferocious set of double pinochle with friends. Just finished watching a replay.
    Even though the last 8 minutes or so was atrocious offensive basketball, I don’t think anyone would have been unhappy minus the referee calls between 1:30 and 1:00. 1st Harris’ 3 wiped out by a phantom 3-second call. Then Chuck called for a push off on the baseline while making a jumper (should have been a flop called). That’s 5 points we did not get that would have made the end so much more relaxing.
    Also, where was Myles Tate?

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  9. EagleIan

    EagleIan Member

    The Golden fourth foul was the seventh on Butler. That would have resulted in free throws nonetheless?
  10. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Yep and if Vall wasn’t in their ear, somebody was. Breeding was the awful ref last night, and yes, awful both ways—the number of obvious makeup calls was astounding.

    On a similar note, maybe at the start of halftime or shortly after noticed Ralph Reif crossing the court to talk to the other ref. Only thing I can come up with was something to do with Nze. There were at least 3 plays where he took contact and noticeably grabbed his shoulder. Heart sank each time. No game on Saturday might be exactly what he needs.
  11. kac12568

    kac12568 Well-Known Member

    From what I saw Nze tweaked his shoulder again in the first half, the way he was rotating his shoulder after a play on the defensive end of the court.

    I woke up and saw the end of the game on FS1 (right before the phantom 3 second call). The announcers only quickly mentioned there was a turnover....they never showed the replay of the 3 second call.

    The premature whistle on the out of bounds call, the scorers table did not reset the arrow from Butler to DePaul.

    The infamous hook..... It was during an offensive rebound. I didn't see the replay on FS1 to hear the explanation, but if it was an offensive foul the NCAA NEVER awards free throws even if the other team is in the bonus.
    The hook continued after DePaul had gained possession. However, started during our possession. (and #10 from DePaul should have been called for several cheap shots, hooks and hip checks during the game)

    Someone else asked about the hand signals, Wiping the forehead is one of the normal signals Jordan uses. AT was probably anticipating which player should dribble out the clock and take a bad shot.

    6 minutes without a field goal to end the game is inexcusable!!!!
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  12. Albick

    Albick Well-Known Member VIP Member

    I expect the Big East to reduce the quarantine time to 5 days soon--probably before Tuesday--which would alleviate Hall's problem. Not saying they should or shouldn't, but that seems to be the direction things are going.
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  13. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    There were several plays prior that lead to Golden's disqualification. IMO Golden had has his fill.
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  14. butlerguy03

    butlerguy03 Well-Known Member

    Thank you for confirming it is something between players/coaches. I sit behind the bench at an angle that you can't generally read what Jordan is doing, so I guess I've just missed it all this time. Fascinating stuff though; I've always been amazed by baseball hand signals, etc. It's basically a made-up sign language.
  15. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Well you didn’t use logic to arrive at this position, so it seems foolish for me to try to use logic to counter it, but I’m a fool so here we go:

    We can agree on the following right, right?

    A) It was a hook and hold

    B)Pulling the DePaul player 20 feet towards the Butler bench by his arm indicates a *really* high probability of intent.

    C)Hook and hold is an automatic flagrant foul regardless of intent

    D)The hook and hold rule was established (recently) to try to remove it from the game due to the incidence of injury that was occurring as a result of it happening.

    E)A flagrant foul is by definition “excessive or severe contact.”

    SO- therefore we can conclude from those facts, that a Butler player purposefully did something considered “excessive or severe” and that has a high probability of injury to an opponent.

    Therefore, for it to not be dirty, you must believe that a purposeful act of “severe or excessive” contact that is outlawed because of its injury risk, constitutes a dirty play-which is an obviously irrational position.

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  16. Baddog

    Baddog Well-Known Member

    Interesting call at the end of the game. Small lead, last timeout, Harris inbounds to Thompson and gets the ball back at the top of the key. Not even a high pick. Four guys spread out and standing around watching Harris. Does Jordan think or is he attempting to make Harris the next Kamar? Kamar's individual play actually did produce the only decent record for Jordan. Harris result....a long missed three and a DePaul rebound. Why not a set going to the bucket and attempting to score or maybe drawing a foul? Gave DePaul a chance to pull even. Don't need a grease board to draw that crap up if all you're going to do is hand the ball to Harris. Nothing has changed. Still feel sorry for the undercoached and underdeveloped kids who could and should be better. It's still DePaul. At home. Minus their second leading scorer for the entire game. But nice to hear Jordan was in the ref's ear.
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  17. Dawgedd

    Dawgedd Well-Known Member

    B is just not true. The DePaul player slammed into Golden with momentum going toward Butlers bench. Golden wasn’t responsible for dragging him 20 ft

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  18. Dawgedd

    Dawgedd Well-Known Member

    A hook and hold—sure. But this was necessitated by the DePaul player on the previous play and by slamming into Golden on the play in the question. Absolutely not fair that the brunt of the penalty fell to Golden

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  19. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    1. Depaul’s leading scorer played, though you may not have noticed him since AT locked him up.

    2. With David in the game as a post, DePaul was going to be most likely switching everything given that David isn’t capable of exploiting a size mismatch. Switching everything also greatly mitigates the effectiveness of a ball screen. Butler is also bad at using ball screens.

    3. DePaul came out of that timeout with Freeman-Liberty, a very good defender, guarding Harris. They ran Harris off a screen knowing that they’d get a switch and end up with Javan Johnson-probably Depaul’s worst defender-guarding Harris.

    They then spaced the floor and got the shot clock to 8 seconds left so that Harris used as much of the clock as possible without compromising his capability to drive or shoot. Johnson (for some reason ) was guarding to take away the drive not the shot. When Harris jabbed hard he got Johnson to retreat to the free throw line, before Harris went to a step back. Harris ended up with 5 1/2 to 6 feet of space to get the shot.

    While the shot didn’t go in, Butler got their best shot creator in an advantageous matchup where he had multiple options and was able to drain 14 seconds off the game clock while still retaining the option to either drive or get a jump shot.

    It’s hard to want a whole lot more than that.

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  20. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    This what I'm saying. Was it technically a hook and hold? Yes, but there was aplenty initiated by the depaul player during and before that play which played a role in all this. I think A. to pile on Golden is a reach at best and I think unnecessary. B. It's kinda nice to see this team, as it has looked to this point, get a little rowdy and mix it up. He wasn't gonna let that jerk off from depaul knock him/push him around and fought back. Frankly, to me it was refreshing to see some anger and mix up. Vs the awful and inept play we've seen so far.

    I'll also go to this (not a Golden point) I thought for about 32ish minutes that was the best performance to date. It got dicey at the end and that needs to be cleaned up. But there was a ton of energy out there which was great to see...refreshing as holy hell. Butler pretty much controlled that game from the jump until the last few minutes. I'm not wooly yet on them by any means, but I did feel some encouragement watching last night.

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