Game Thread: Butler vs DePaul (12/29)

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by ConnersvilleBulldog, Dec 28, 2021.

  1. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

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    From the postgame Nze was dealing with cramping issues, not shoulder related and seemed to be on a sort of minutes restrictions, wasn't planning on playing 29 minutes but due to Golden's foul out had to play more and was cramping.

     
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  2. SnoopDawg

    SnoopDawg Well-Known Member

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    Instead of talking about Golden's hook and hold, can we talk about all of the easy layups he and others missed? Can you imagine the kind of assist numbers AT would be gathering if he just had someone to finish his dimes?

    I know Luko, JT, and Chuck played well, but AT is the reason we won last night. He set the tempo early on both ends of the floor and easily could have had 12-13 assists if we could just finish at the rim. He also held Freeman-Liberty to nothing. We consistently lose to any team with dominant big-men (hell we made Ongenda look like Paul Reed), but top guards don't scare me nearly as much because I know we can stick AT on them. People need to understand that AT is one of the better players to ever wear a Butler uniform and finally give him the respect he deserves.
     
  3. Gregory Roach

    Gregory Roach Well-Known Member

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    For those wondering why Nze did not return for the final 5 mins, he was completely gassed and suffering left thigh & calf cramps. He spent most of his time those final 5 mins on the bench using several PT devices to attempt to loosen his left leg with what appeared very limited success. Yes, like some of you, I noticed him favor his injured shoulder after a couple of direct shots late in the first half. However, when he started the second half, he appeared to be playing "normally" with "free" shoulder mobility and even caught himself with the injured arm when knocked to the floor on a rebound. All in all, a great Nze outing given that he hadn't played a competitive minute in a month. I am concerned that he is going to be overused going forward increasing the likelihood of reinjury through fatigue. With the departure of Coles and Johnson, the front court depth is nil forcing reliance on Nze when available. It is what it is. He didn't return for 21/22 to sit on the bench and watch. He appears to have decided to play through injury and see how far he can go. Which leads to my next thought.

    One observation on Nze and his value. He appears to be the sole Butler front court player who can play inside/out and who has court awareness as an inside passing threat. No other Butler front court player on this roster has his passing ability (Golden, Groce, Hughes). For me, that is the big difference when he plays and the effectiveness or lack thereof, of the Butler motion offense.

    Separately, Mark Minner and Nick Gardner both mentioned in post-game wrap that AT has finally realized "this is it". The clock is counting down and his days as a colligate athlete are numbered. I think you saw that same determination and urgency in Nze. You saw some of that in David's second half defense. Going forward, I expect AT/Nze at a minimum to pressure and pull the underclassmen to perform at a higher level and feel their urgency. You have certainly seen that in the play of Lukosuis and Taylor.

    Last night's game may have seen some of the same ongoing "less than stellar" coaching, but this team performed at a much different level, particularly in the first half, and DID NOT surrender to bad officiating with panic and a regrettable loss. They showed a maturity heretofore I had not consistently seen with this team (not even the OK game). Further, they took very good care of the ball in the final 5 mins. Ball control was something Lukosuis was unable to do in November (remember his melt downs during the Maui Classic?) and Taylor was unable to do two weeks ago. The freshman are proving they can be successful, even without AT always in the lineup. They are maturing. Let's see how far they grow in the last 3 months of this season.
     
  4. Tentozen

    Tentozen Well-Known Member

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    By no means was I implying that I think Jordan is a good coach because he was in the ref’s ear. But there are a lot of posters on this board who use that as one of the reasons he is not a good coach. Was just pointing out what I observed last night.


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  5. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    And somehow Depaul being short handed one leading scorer impacted the outcome but when Butler is short two or three key players it has no impact on the outcome.
     
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  6. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Was it instigated by the DePaul player? Yes I’d agree with that.

    It doesn’t mean Golden’s play wasn’t dirty.


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  7. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    While the DePaul player jumped into golden at the rim, to box him out. After the DePaul player hit the ground, Golden was in control. If you look below, the body of the DePaul player is not in contact with Golden in a way he could move Golden. It’s simply Golden pulling.

    Additionally, let’s say for the sake of argument that you’re correct (I invite you to watch it again), keeping his arm locked like that is still dirty.
    Image1640891919.341839.jpg


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  8. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

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    Lol what? You never got into a low, athletic stance and used the ground-based power in your legs to drive backwards and move someone? That dude is literally in the perfect position to do that.
     
  9. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    His butt is not even contacting Golden. That’s not what happened.
    Watch. The. Play.
    Image1640892913.350362.jpg


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  10. DawgsMD

    DawgsMD Forum Psychiatrist VIP Member

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    JFC, give it a rest every. Who gives a ****. Plays over. Nice to see some intensity. Sometimes it goes overboard.


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  11. BoyGeoff

    BoyGeoff Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    We won! That is a good start. We lost the 2nd half and were out rebounded in 2nd half. It was all post Golden incident. Golden’s physical play preceding the incident combined with Nze’s strong performance were the difference. Yes, Thompson led with energy and great D, and… Luko and Harris shot well. That is why we were 11 up at the half. With our lack of depth on the front line, it is mind boggling to me that Golden got himself fouled out. He is not new to the Big East game. This team overall is prone to individual lapses of judgement that points to a lack of maturity/leadership which we have come to expect from a Butler team. This team of all teams should know that their only chance to win is to be mentally stronger and focused at a higher level than our Big East opponents. I’m still wanting to see this team take it up higher on the focus side and get as close to 40 minutes as they can. I can handle being on the short side of the stick if and only if we just get outmanned on any given day. I still expect better from this group.
    Last thought is that Harris needs to start. If Hodges can demonstrate elite D and some ability to run the floor and finish, I’m good with Harris and Luko as our shooters. Just my opinion but Bolden should be brought off the bench when we need some scoring. We should run a couple of plays for him to get open looks. If he does not make…. Back to the bench. His only real value is knocking down 3’s. If not, almost any other player brings more value.


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  12. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    The talk around me even before the ball was inbounded was to try for a 2 for 1. Which kinda looks like what happened as it wasn’t a great shot—it was off the moment it left his hands like he thought he just had to get something up.
     
  13. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Nze was holding his shoulder/wincing on at least 3 plays. Was some of it theatrics—maybe. And like mentioned, I think Ralph was discussing Nze with the ref. Glad to hear he sat due to cramping not tweaking the shoulder.
     
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  14. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. A 2 for one wouldn’t be of benefit if you score there. The play also was slow developing and he initiated the offense at like exactly the ten second mark. I think it was designed to use time and also generate the matchup they wanted.


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  15. Tentozen

    Tentozen Well-Known Member

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    Were there really that many easy layups missed? Golden only missed 2 shots, and at least one of those he was mugged and knocked to the floor.
    Nze maybe one? Haven’t watched the replay yet; may do that tonight.


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  16. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I can think of at least 3 possessions where layups were missed followed by 2 missed put backs. Jair swooped in on the 3rd missed layup and scored.
     
  17. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Just watched the scuffle frame by frame to decide if my eyes in real time really saw what I thought I did.

    1) Never mess with Jair or one of his teammates—dude’s eyes throw death rays.
    2) Should have been a call on Anei on the previous possession. Nothing intentional, but a foul nonetheless and set up the scuffle.
    3) Anei should have been called for a foul on the rebound. If you watch closely he flies across the paint and in an attempt to gain position ends up with his right arm across Bryce’s neck. No wonder Bryce was honked. No calls two possessions in a row.
    4). Yes it was a hook and hold but a classic case of the second kid getting caught. No problem with the call though.
    5). I don’t see why Bryce received the T. Keeps his upper body vertical (he does move one foot towards Anei) but is very restrained.
    6) Anei actually makes contact with Bryce’s chest and after being pulled back, comes at him again. So why can’t those two actions be considered separate T’s?
    7) Refs stunk.

    Bottom line: In real time saw the previous no call which lead up to the scuffle. Did not notice the hook an hold. But clearly felt that Bryce did not engage in the face off—which the replay confirms.
     
  18. SnoopDawg

    SnoopDawg Well-Known Member

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    I guess you're probably right, it wasn't as many as I thought. The ones that did happen were extremely frustrating though. I want to see an angry Bryce dunk.
     
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  19. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member

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    Watched the game and now rewatched the replay, and you are right about the odd lineups - I saw David make some very good defensive decisions - I can see why LaVall trusts him - his scoring should be better, but he has proven repeatedly he is a stopper - he interacts well with Simas - they both have an instinctive nose for the ball.
     
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  20. Shane Davis

    Shane Davis Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know - Right now I’m kinda digging having Harris come off the bench. He’s pretty much Butler’s most dynamic scorer when he’s on, so naturally he should command more minutes than Bolden, but I honestly think he helps the bench offense more than Bolden hurts the starters offense. Bolden is more of a glorified catch and shoot scorer, meaning he needs a facilitator like Thompson to be the most effective; while Harris can score in a variety of ways and doesn’t require a lot of help to do so, so I think it’s a good balance. Don’t get me wrong, the best talent should usually start, but as long as Bolden can knock down 3’s, Taylor can provide some of the 3 level scoring you normally get from Harris, which helps the bigs. Let Harris carry the bench, and everything else when the time is needed.
     

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