Game Thread: Butler vs. IUPUI (11/9)

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by ConnersvilleBulldog, Nov 7, 2021.

  1. firedupkaren

    firedupkaren Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $6,177
    Be sure to post your losses too.
     
    butlerguy03 likes this.
  2. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $6,281
    Here's my bright side look, when was the last time we started 2 true freshman and a sophomore in game 1. I'm going with the optimistic view, and yes what I watched was blah, BUT it appears we may have something in Taylor and Simas being the real deal and Chuck shot absolutely terrible don't think that continues every game and he looked like he could get whatever he wanted. Taylor a freshman was unafraid to get to the basket and finish THROUGH contact already. He is a great shooter chalk it up to nerves more likely than not. Simas will get better with every day he is here. This is him at the bottom...I couldn't be more happy with our FT shooting, Nze looked confident and smooth. Just think how many games we might have won last year if we could hit FTs AND for your entertainment value if you think this board is over the top already head over to the scum of the crappy place in Cincy, it's a dumpster fire over there.
     
  3. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,207
    I’ve seen several times in this thread references to missing Tate as being one reason we’re not 100%. I don’t understand that.

    Even if he does come back to play this season, he’s coming off a significant knee injury.

    Second, he was a clear net negative last season. He was terrible. Was he a freshman? Yes. Did he do some good things? Yes. Could he in time be good? Yes. Was he terrible last year on net? Yes, clearly and objectively. He was probably our worst player, and he didn’t have an off-season to improve. It’s irrational to think getting him back this season will help. It’s more likely to be a negative.


    Sent from my iPhone, so it’s probably not written all that well
     
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  4. Ignatius J. Reilly

    Ignatius J. Reilly Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,352
    This is where I ended up. They won by 9, controlled the game, it was never truly in danger mode, and they did it with underclassmen handling the majority of the ball-handling responsibilities and scoring load. This is crucial experience for them IMO.

    And god bless the FT shooting improving.
     
    ButlerHomer, tlp63, bumba and 2 others like this.
  5. Ignatius J. Reilly

    Ignatius J. Reilly Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,352
    Not to be confrontational, but I actually don't think it was clear and objective that he was "terrible last year on net."

    His shooting was definitely lackluster, especially for a guard regarded as a shooter coming in with a reputation as a shooter, but like I didn't see him come into games and think "oh no the other team is about to go on a run." And I definitely had those thoughts about other players.
     
    WestLoopDog likes this.
  6. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,207
    He was the least efficient offensive player to play 60+ % of our minutes in ten years.

    In the last 20 seasons, only one Butler player has played 60%+ minutes and been less efficient offensively, and that player was a) super low usage (unlike Tate) and b) perhaps our best defender ever.

    He was really bad. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t have upside.


    Sent from my iPhone, so it’s probably not written all that well
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2021
  7. Ignatius J. Reilly

    Ignatius J. Reilly Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,352
    I want to grant that and still say that I don't think he was terrible. Like, in my mind, if he was terrible then I'd say there was no hope for him to contribute in the future. Just no foundation. But I thought you could see what his potential was even if he was inefficient.

    Perhaps this is just semantics though.
     
  8. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $13,331
    "worst player"?? Nah dude, you forget JMM and David play for this team. Tater Tot went through some freshman struggles, especially behind the line but was a gamer and I believe really showed some grit and toughness, plus he's money at the FT line. I am of course a huge fan of his but even so, he wasn't the worst player. Now if you want to say the worst of the players who played significant minutes...ok I can agree I expected more and was disappointed at times but he was thrown into a big east PG role (in some cases full time) and that's no easy task. Ok, saying that...

    You're right about people holding out for him to be some huge contributor this season. Am I feeling very confident how his rehab has been going? Yes. And he'll get some solid minutes here in about a month or so. But I do not think Tater Tot is going to be what makes or breaks this season and expectations of anyone coming off an ACL tear need to be very much tempered. He'll have some moments but I'd caution on him being a big time contributor in 21-22...but in 22-23 my expectations for him are much higher.
     
    shoeevv likes this.
  9. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,207
    I think you’re confusing potential with production. You can show signs of great potential while still being terrible.
     
  10. Ignatius J. Reilly

    Ignatius J. Reilly Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,352
    Your earlier post and this one make me think that we are really disagreeing over definitions (what does it mean to be "terrible"?) more than what we saw on the court tbh.
     
  11. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,207
    I don’t think it’s that complicated: what did you do to the offensive and defensive efficiency of the team while you were on the court? That’s production.

    It seems you’re looking and what *can/could* he do to the efficiencies of the team in the future. That’s potential.
     
  12. Ignatius J. Reilly

    Ignatius J. Reilly Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,352
    I don't disagree with you at any level whatsoever. I'm just saying that I probably weigh production and potential slightly differently in determining if I think a kid is/was terrible. Maybe we don't disagree at all. Re-reading your post, its implied that his production was terrible. I read it more broadly than just production on first read.
     
  13. Danville Bulldog

    Danville Bulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $1,969
    I wish JMM would transfer. He could get a lot more playing time on another team.
     
  14. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $9,364
    BU did appear somewhat lethargic, perhaps from tired legs, which could explain shots being short. That is the one plausible explanation. Nonetheless energy seemed to be lacking for a season opener. Yet the defensive effort clearly was improved. There were glimpses what of potential but nothing was ever sustained. Stats don't lie nor tell the entire story. Turnovers, blocked shots, ill-advised shot selection and the lack of ball movement contibuted to what could only be described as a poor performance. Still it's way to early to get overly concerned with the number of line up scratches. Just saying...
     
    bumba likes this.
  15. pjohnsto2003

    pjohnsto2003 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $8,414
    He’ll be sure to when preparing his annual return.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  16. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $7,550
    Of course he could, but maybe he’s weighed it all out and is content with his role. Decent roster management should always allow for one kid like that—esp. one that is a good teammate, a great student, keeps his nose clean, and provides some size in practice.
     
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  17. pjohnsto2003

    pjohnsto2003 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $8,414
    Agree here. They started three freshmen. Last time that happened was 08-09 (I think) and that heralded class threw up some clunkers against consistently less than mediocre competition. I get the shot clock was longer and the D was emphasized more, but I think the comp is still relevant.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
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  18. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,438
    I think this all started when Nze let the Mohawk grow out. We've never been the same.
     
  19. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,438
    Disagree, there is upside here. Tate's split stats show he played better as a starter than as a reserve. Asking any freshman to come in and play from the start is high expectations. He also performed better in games we lost than won. I think he stepped up his game when people around him failed.

    Yes, he's a sh*tty 3 point shooter but there is probably a higher ceiling we haven't see yet.
     
    shoeevv likes this.
  20. SnoopDawg

    SnoopDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,805
    I don't know the stat, but I can guarantee Butler has a negative record ATS for first halves. Do I win all my bets? No. Am I confident betting against Butler in the first half when we're 14 point favorites and missing 4 key players? Yes.

    Of our 25 games last year, we were losing in 18 of them by half, most of the time by double digits, then another 2 of them we were up by 1 point.

    Betting aside, it shows a few things:
    1. This team gets off to slow starts, I'd tend to blame that on coaching and gameplan.
    2. This team has fight in it and never gives up.
     
    2xDawg likes this.

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