Game Thread: Butler vs N.C. State (11/25) (Battle 4 Atlantis)

I agree with this, and don't mind it with Thad at the helm. He will right the ship. It just might take a while to back off the iceberg.

 

The school/program isn’t lying about the concussion, the surgery, and the lingering symptoms.

If there’s something else going on that will sideline him beyond his recovery - which is nearing completion - it’s *in addition to* the concussion problem, and it’s a hell of a coincidence. I’ll add that I’ve heard nothing about any other issue that would sideline him from anyone other than the unreliable rumor mill/people who aren’t confident in whoever told them, and I’m pretty sure I would have.

I’m not going to keep repeating myself on this any more. People don’t have to believe me and can continue to fill the void with whatever dumb theories they want to come up with.

 

I was too harsh to say Ali won't play ... I shouldn't have said it and apologize for that.

 

But LaVall first? Wasn't he a product of the smaller budget?

 

No need to apologize. You have opinions just like anyone else. He indeed may never play again. No one on this forum knows jack about his situation. Heck at this point all we know is we have eight scholarship players available for Wednesday night against Kansas State and we won’t know that until tip off time. Could even be less than eight. Who knows?

 

I think most people understand that we aren’t playing with a full deck at the moment and that we surely will improve once (if) we get to full strength. I also think most people believe in the long-term, Matta will right this ship.

Having said that, I think where some of the disappointment on this board comes from is that on paper, a lot of us thought this team could at least compete for a tournament berth. And I know by the end of the season we will be a much better basketball team than we currently are. I’m not disputing that. But if we are digging ourself into a hole early, will it matter if we are playing better if ultimately we miss the tournament for a 5th year in a row? I think it’s okay to have faith in the long-term, while admitting this season hasn’t gone exactly the way we all hoped (so far). And hopefully health and growth can still change that. I truly hope it can. But I don’t blame anyone for questioning if our predictions/hopes for this season might have been off.

 

The budget was an issue but this program made the NCAA Tourney all three years Chris Holtmann was head coach. They had two tourney teams after he left, counting the 2020 squad.

I agree that the season is long. We're only three weeks into it. It's easy to be frustrated but there's a long way to go. A couple of guys coming back from injury, plus Matta's coaching over the next couple of months may make a huge difference.

 

We haven’t played with a full deck it seems for the past five years. Maybe longer. Have wondered a lot about where the epidemic of injuries have occurred- Hinkle or Efroymson?

 

Not my opinion, mate.

 

It’s wild that people around here are acting like the season is over.


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Yeah the thought was new blood, experience and Thad would get us back to contention. It hasn't. The fact is that a program that was torpedoed by the previous staff is going to take a long time to fix...unfortunately. And the depth/talent, especially with injuries, just isn't there.

I proclaimed this team wouldn't finish low in the big east. I was wrong.

 

The injury to Wilmoth came at a really inopportune time for him as he would have had a chance to show where he stands from a development perspective.

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Define 'low', though. Looking at non-con results of a lot of other BE teams...a good chunk of them are just as flawed right now. UConn and Creighton are head and shoulders above everyone else, but the other 8 teams are beatable on any given day. Even Xavier while being competitive against top teams, seems to have little margin for error due to a thin roster/injury potential.

Still think midpack in the conf standings is easily doable.

 

I attended the Bahama tournament with my younger brother, a Tennessee grad. Tennessee is our native state. We saw Butler’s and Tennessee’s games. Expensive but very fun trip.

My observations aren’t especially original but here goes anyway:

1) This Butler team is much more interesting to watch that last year’s. There are glimpses of a much higher ceiling, especially if missing players return.

2) Butler does not have a true point guard and against better teams it really shows. Hunter is a scorer, plays hard, a terrific addition to the team. But he is not a true point guard. One of the most observable indications of Hunter not being a true point guard is where he often ends up when he penetrates the lane. Instead of stopping at or just inside the foul line, he goes deeper. It’s a place traditional distributor point guards are coached NOT to go. Against better teams and stopped at five feet or so from the basket Hunter has only a very contested shot over the opposition’s length and mostly no good angles to pass.

Hunter might be more effective going fast to the foul line and pulling up for his soft jumper with the options of lobbing to Manny if the opposing center comes out. Or passing to the wing or corner if a defender collapses from his right or left. If the drive to the basket is open, obviously take it. That is, do what a typical point guard does.

2) It appears part of the solution to point #1 so far is to have Simas (or sometimes Chuck) be the point forward after Hunter brings the ball up. That’s good if Simas is going to be a very good passer. He hasn’t been so far this year.

3) Closely related to the previous two points, we aren’t feeding the post very effectively.

4) The most simple observation, consistent with others posting here, is that we will be better if we just cut down turnovers. With half the total turnovers, we would have been ahead of Tennessee at the half and would have stayed within range of NC State in the second half. And the BYU game would not have been close at the end.

5) The most positive takeaway from last week is that for the first 12-15 minutes of the Tennessee game, Butler was the most effective team in the tournament against them. Tennessee did not hit threes in the first third of that game because we gave them no room to shoot open threes. In the second half, we gave them room (as did Kansas) and they rolled. But the first third of the Tennessee game was darn good, especially in terms of defensive intensity.

The world will look better if we win on Wednesday.


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I heard Ali went and enlisted in Putin’s army to join the fight in Ukraine

 

Is Ali going to be eligible in time for the IU game?

 

Everyone needs to R-E-L-A-X. There is a new Sherriff in town and his name is Thad Matta and all will be well in due time.

 

Before LJ was let go, did any of us think we could go to the tourney this season?

When LJ was fired and a new coach hadn't been named, did any of us think we could go to the tourney this season?

When Thad was hired, as excited as we all were, did any of us think we could go to the tourney this season?

When Thad was able to retain all the eligible players that Lavall initially brought in, did any of us think that we could go to the tourney this season?

It wasn't until Bates and Hunter committed that I believed Butler could go to the tourney this year, when in one shortened off-season Thad managed to not only replace, but find upgrades from Golden, Nze, and Thompson.

This strand of injuries is probably the first real major difficulty we have had to experience during the Thad era. But I truly believe that players will heal and learn how to play Butler basketball, and over time, landing guys like Bates will become normal.

I know we're all itching to be relevant again, but I think we have a lot to be grateful for and the future is truly bright, especially considering what all has been accomplished in such a short period of time.

 

RPeye- excellent observations. Butler does not have a point guard or floor leader. We were suppose to go inside then out. We aren’t doing that. NC States big kept going left and we never adjusted to force him to go right so he ate whenever he wanted. Our passing has been poor . Telegraphing is frequent.