Game Thread: Butler vs St. Francis (11/17)

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by CarmelDawg23, Nov 17, 2022.

  1. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think this is a top 40 team (I.e., the level required for an at large bid) without Ali and Thomas. It’s more like 50-60: I.e., the bubble, but the wrong side of it.

    I’m actually hopeful those two can be the difference, though. What are we most missing right now? Some shooting, and about 15 quality defensive center minutes. What is on the bench/unhealthy right now? Some shooting, and about 15 quality defensive center minutes.
     
  2. Ignatius J. Reilly

    Ignatius J. Reilly Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I'd add to the needs list is another wing defender. I love what Pierce is doing -- he's really embracing being a star in his role -- but you can never have enough length and guys who can defend. And Myles Wilmoth is right there to return at some point.
     
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  3. Michdog

    Michdog Active Member

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    I mostly agree with others as to offensive player movement seems better than the past couple of years. My minor gripe is that I don't see this team making the "extra pass" for a very good shot. Sure Dunham, Campbell and Archey were great 3 point shooters, but the "extra" pass to get them the shot was always right on and in the shooting pocket. A good pass to a 3 point shooter has the ability to raise that shooting % quite a bit. Last night was a tough game to judge that because guys like Hunter were getting to the paint fairly easily and had decent shots themselves. But there were still a couple of occassions where an extra pass would have led to a very high percentage shot. I think Simas has this skill (and court vision) but I don't see it out of some of the other guards.
     
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  4. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Another valid point that was made is that BU has never had a true "shot blocker". The team will need to adjust accordingly moving forward. Developing a trust in MB.
     
  5. ButlerGoalie

    ButlerGoalie Well-Known Member

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    It's weird...I think we've become so desensitized these last couple of years that we're a little bit shell-shocked to see this incarnation and we truly haven't seen this team approach its potential thanks mostly to injuries.

    I like where this ship is headed...no matter the results, I have faith in Matta in being to self-correct and/or assemble the tools to get us where we want to be. It might not happen this year, but I truly feel that we are on the cusp of a serious Villanova-esque run in the Big East.

    That said, I'll be very intrigued to see the upcoming off-season. Thad will know what he has and what he needs. I just think that we'll finally be improving each year as we should.
     
  6. DawgDude

    DawgDude Active Member

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    The first fifteen minutes of the game and the second half spurt by St. Francis last night was to me vintage Laval Jordan. The new star beat writer mentioned it as well. Both of those lapses were caused by poor defensive effort , particularly out at the three point line. . Understand it’s early in the season but it has to get fixed come next Wednesday or we will be laying a 2021 Maui Classic turd again in 2022 Bahamas. Next week isnt St. Francis and Citadel. Agree with what you said Jared above about getting used to playing with a shot blocker. Still.
     
  7. Albick

    Albick Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I agree with the general premise that team that is a good two-point shooting team and a bad three-point shooting team should attempt relatively more two-point shorts and relatively fewer three-point shots. With regard to the details, the percentages cited would be accurate if the relationship between two-point and three-point percentages were static. I believe they are not static but rather dynamic.

    Taken to its extreme, a team that shoots two-pointers well and three-pointers poorly would have 100% of its field goal attempts be two-pointers. Of course, if the team did that, the opponent would simply pack in its defense and make it more difficult to shoot two-pointers, meaning the two-point percentage very likely would go down. The bottom line is that, although it's impossible to tell what Butler's break-even percentage is for shooting threes, it certainly is somewhat below 37%.

    That said, it certainly is true that a team that shoots twos well and shoots threes poorly ought to be very judicious in its three-point shooting.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2022
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  8. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you’re right that I’m oversimplifying and they’re certainly dynamic. But the overarching point is still mostly valid and generally instructive, I think.
     
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  9. WAJC77

    WAJC77 Well-Known Member

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    The infamous Pillsbury Classic holiday tournament hosted by Minnesota in late December.. Creighton was the 4th team that year who we lost to in the opening round
     
  10. Albick

    Albick Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    There was a play in the second half that seemed kind of revealing. I doubt TV viewers could see it, but those who attended in person might have picked it up. Butler was on a break (3-on-2, I believe). Simas set up just outside the 3-point line on the left side and was wide open. The ballhandler (Harris maybe) chose to take a contested shot in the lane instead of kicking it out to Simas. His body language (mainly an angry pump of his arms) made it appear obvious that he was very unhappy that the ballhandler hadn't kicked it out. I'm a big Simas fan, but that didn't seem to me to be very appropriate for a player at this level.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2022
  11. DawgsMD

    DawgsMD Forum Psychiatrist VIP Member

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  12. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

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    I think the color guy might have pointed it out, or that could have just been my internal dialogue.
     
  13. Butler87

    Butler87 New Member

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    Wasn't Penn State in the old MCC with Butler for a year sometime in the 90's?
     
  14. Albick

    Albick Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Penn State was in the A10 from 1982-1991, was an independent in 1991-92, joined the B1G in 1992, and has been there ever since. They made the Sweet Sixteen in 2001 and has made only one NCAA appearance since then, losing to Temple in the first round (i.e., the round after the First Four) in 2011.
     
  15. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

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    We lost on a buzzer beater about 20 minutes of real time after Howard hit his against ODU. All in all, it sucks PSU lost, but I wasn’t too upset given what had happened with Butler.

    That was also about 2 weeks after Penn State’s senior night, when John Diebler hit 10/10 on 3s against us. I think he missed one or two at the end of the game to finish 10/11 or 10/12.

    To be fair to PSU, they would have been something like a 5 or 6 seed in 2020. That team was good, led by NBA player Lamar Stevens.
     
  16. SCbulldogsfan4life

    SCbulldogsfan4life Well-Known Member

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    I can imagine him being upset, not because he didn't get to take a 3, but because that's a pass he himself would have made and expects it of others. I don't think Chuck and Taylor are selfish with the ball. After the last 2 years of watching Butler players just pass the ball around the perimeter for the first 25 seconds of the shot clock looking for a mismatch that didn't exist, I appreciate them attacking early and often. But the next step for them both is to not get so laser-focused on the rim and find open teammates to pass to after breaking down the D. I'm hopeful that this will improve with time as they all get more familiar with their teammates and the offensive schemes which will allow them to know exactly where others are on the floor without having to think so much about it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
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  17. Tentozen

    Tentozen Well-Known Member

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    He did mention it; said just one more pass would have found a wide open Simas.


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  18. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

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    There were more than a couple of 2 on 1 3 on 2s where Harris mostly but occasionally Taylor had wide open players, twice I believe it was Harris and PT for a wide open alley oop which would have brought the crowd through the roof and instead took it themselves. Maybe it's Thad pushing for being aggressive but I have noticed in the 3 games we very rarely make an extra pass to get an easy basket and instead drive to try and get fouled/Euro. Not always being successful, works against worse teams didn't work again PSU as evidenced by the at least 10 missed lay ups...You cant just put your head down and bully into the hoop...
     
  19. TheDawgDub95

    TheDawgDub95 Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I definitely noticed the opportunity fornthe lob to Pierce, live, but I'll give it a pass since he had 7 assists. I hope he continues to develop playmaking on his drives and we diversify Manny sealing and getting lobs over the top on drives. We've had fewer of the latter than I would have expected to this point.

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  20. TheDawgDub95

    TheDawgDub95 Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Thank you to Simas for the first lob over the top to Manny on a drive, last night against the Citadel!

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