Game Thread: Butler vs Troy (11/13)

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by ConnersvilleBulldog, Nov 13, 2021.

  1. znelson15

    znelson15 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,428
    Can’t wait for this game

    AT back and needing what I think will be a good resume building win to get in the tourney


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
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  2. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,207
    I don’t disagree that Harris and Taylor look good and I’m really pleased with the minutes Wilmoth is giving.

    Doesn’t change that our team results thus far don’t inspire confidence.
     
    2xDawg likes this.
  3. ConnersvilleBulldog

    ConnersvilleBulldog Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $8,921
    This is where I’m kind of torn. I absolutely see the potential of this team. I think we have a few elements that we were missing from last years’ team. And I’m hoping that, plus hopefully better health is enough to at least get us into the tournament.

    But it’s also hard to discount the offensive struggles we’ve seen through 5 games now. Granted the last 3 have been without AT. But like others have said, it’s not like we looked amazing against Tiffin or UIndy either.

    Ultimately, I think we are better than last year. (Which is a low bar). I think like last year, everything will click on occasion and we’ll have some good wins. But we were also just held to basically 20 first half points by Troy.
     
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  4. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $19,179
    When healthy, we have 9 guys on the roster who have scored 18 points or more in a game somewhat recently. 18 was just selective to include Taylor, who has only played 3 college games. We've never seen a Butler roster with this much scoring depth. It may not have a Kelan Martin or Kamar Baldwin (or it might?), but there are still a lot of offensive weapons.
     
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  5. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $8,101
    Our offense still has been hot garbage for LONG stretches against bad teams.

    We have a lot of guys who have scored a lot of points at some point, but we haven’t seen them give any semblance of them being able to play effectively *with* one another except the second half against CA


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  6. Cranjis McBasketball

    Cranjis McBasketball Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $955
    I’m just glad to see LJ not be afraid to bench some players when they are not playing well. Golden and Groce by all rights should have played more based on experience. But both were having problems of defense and Groce was having problems with ball security. Bolden by all rights should be starting but he’s taken a back seat to JT, while still having a significant role. Simas obviously was having a rough time with the pressure and we didn’t see him the 2nd half and instead saw Wilmoth a bunch and JT handle the point for a considerable amount of time. Those were great adjustments.

    It’s a double edged sword being exposed like that. On one hand it gives our guys (and coaches) experience on how to handle it as well as set aside practices where we can work on on the “VCU Havok” style pressure. But it also gives MSU and our future opponents a blueprint on how to disrupt some of our players (harass Simas, dig the post, deny Nze, drive on Wilmoth and Bolden). I’m just glad we have a healthy AT to take a lot of Simas’s ball handling minutes and put JT and Chuck back at their more natural 2 and 3 positions.


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  7. knobcreekfan

    knobcreekfan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,384
    I am optimistic because we have the depth that allows LJ to bench players that are having an off night or they are a mismatch with the opponent.

    I saw this tweet from Matt, from listening to LJ the other night at the press conference, I think this is the culture the locker room has. As LJ said..winning fixes a lot of problems.





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  8. Lukas Harkins

    Lukas Harkins Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,239
    I understand that Butler's offense has looked sloppy and disjointed at times. It's easy to be annoyed by that. But the overarching numbers paint a pretty good picture of the offensive efficiency. Butler is currently shooting 40.3% from three (56th nationally), 57.6% on 2PAs (56th), 73.8% at the foul line (117th). That is good for the 32nd-best eFG% in the country at 59.1%. They are also getting to the line at the 41st-best rate and ranking above the national average in offensive rebounding rate. Over 65% of made baskets are coming off of assists, 29th in the country.

    Obviously, the low strength of schedule contributes to a lot of this, but the only offensive category in which Butler has lacked so far is turnover rate. If that doesn't improve, that's a major issue, but not only should it improve with AT back, Butler displaying a good offensive turnover rate has been one of the few consistent things under Coach Jordan year-over-year. Again, strength of schedule skews these statistics in the + direction, but this team is *making shots* right now.

    I'd rather see them make shots and struggle with turnovers during their time without AT than the opposite of that. Thompson fixes turnover rate quite a bit; he doesn't fix inefficient shooting very much at all.
     
  9. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $9,364
    The doubters are understandable, but this team has yet to find it's identity. The next few games should provide lots of answers.
     
  10. znelson15

    znelson15 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,428
    My favorite thing in all of this is how this team has gotten to the free throw line so far.

    I have watched to many butler teams that never got to the free throw line.

    It is such a big part of the game this days, and I love how aggressive the team has been so far



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  11. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,207
    Our ninth guy has never been better than this season, but depth is just not very important. It can prevent you from being terrible in the event of bad injury luck, I suppose, but having lots of solid players doesn’t make you good. As an example: I do think this year’s bench would crush the bench of the 2010 team, but that team obviously pummels this one because the good players were really good. That’s how you win.

    I also think the more decent players you have, the more lineups you have, and the more lineups you run, the harder it can be to function as a cohesive unit that adds up to more than the sum of its parts.


    Sent from my iPhone, so it’s probably not written all that well
     
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  12. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,437
    I love how people spin efficiency when we had 20+ turnovers & the other team had 10+ steals. We played like garbage.
     
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  13. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,437
    This. There has to be a core group of guys who step up this year. Until that happens, I don't see us going very far.
     
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  14. Ster8462

    Ster8462 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $686
    I agree this team isn’t likely to be as good as the 2010 team but could be as good if not better than the 2011 team that appeared in the Championship game.

    Although players 1-3 (2 NBA pros and a great overseas player within 2 years can propel you to the 3rd weekend of the Tourney.

    The depth of this team because it gives you the ability to match up with several different type of opponents can get you to the 2nd weekend and if you are lucky like the 2011 team it could get you to the 3rd weekend.

    If Taylor progresses he is an NBA pro in 2-3 years after this and I think Nze goes overseas and makes good money for awhile (like Matt Howard did).

    I’d take a 2nd weekend team out of this group and I think that is realistic ceiling.

    Low point is they don’t learn how to gel with the 10 players they have available with a core 7 and the 8th guy likely changing on any given night because of matchups and fizzle down to an NIT team.

    Not much difference between a 4/5 seed in NCAA tourney and a #1 or #2 seed in NIT.

    About 3-5 wins is the difference. 18 wins NIT and 23 wins likely #4-6 seed in NCAA with realistic 2nd weekend aspirations.
     
  15. butlerguy03

    butlerguy03 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,316
    Do any of you actually enjoy watching games? I feel like most of you are watching to find things wrong.
     
  16. ChiDawg3

    ChiDawg3 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $650
    Thank you! Some people need to ask themselves are they Butler fans or Butler critics.
    I coach youth sports so I liken it to this. Often you find a coach screaming at his team because NOT A SINGLE PLAYER is executing what he wants correctly. If NONE of the players are doing it right, the players aren't the problem. The expectations need to be reevaluated. If you only ***** and moan about all things Butler Basketball, ask yourself why. We are not Duke, Kentucky and fill in the list. It takes us a while to gel and figure out what is going to allow us to compete at our best. This happens every year. While we are figuring all this out, we have been winning. Usually you win OR you learn, we have done both. I can't wait to see how things go this season. I can't wait to drive 3.5 hours to Hinkle Wednesday to catch a game live. Call me naive, optimistic, hopeful, anxious, stubborn, loyal, or basically just a fan. Go Dawgs!!!
     
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  17. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $13,331
    I was having this conversation with the assistant coach of the maybe soon to be step daughter's team. They have 15 varsity players. About 11 of them are average to good, but none great and the first week of play (3 games) they are still trying to find that one lineup/rotation with chemistry. Shuffling players in and out all over. I made the point that the best teams I've seen mostly finalize at most an 8 man rotation and unless injury/bad foul problems/illness etc...stick to it. He agreed and said that is their goal but it's just too early. I simply said 10 mediocres getting PT ain't gonna win you much. But a hard core smaller group who can learn to play off each other will.

    Either way, your point is exact. Right now it's old v new and trying to figure out the best mix. It's more *talented* overall I guess than some Butler teams that have found success...but agree that doesn't equal wins. Having a tight rotation with a couple great players surrounded by good does that. Not sure if this version has that or not. Time shall tell.
     
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  18. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,207
    You have to be Duke or Kentucky to want your team to play well enough to make the ncaa tournament?


    Sent from my iPhone, so it’s probably not written all that well
     
  19. ChiDawg3

    ChiDawg3 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $650
    Duke, Kentucky and the like have the benefit of recruiting (and or paying) the type of talent that can step off the bus and rely on individual athleticism/talent to mask any inefficiencies in their team play or offense. We are a team whose sum is greater than its parts. It takes a bit to figure out what we really have, which combinations work the best together, and above all have enough repetitions and experience to get the best out of any team offense or defense. My point is it takes time and I'm grateful we figured out how to win while we are learning all of this. I hope we all want our team to make it to the NCAA tournament, I just don't think we have to harp on every negative statistic, look, or facial expression along the process.
     
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  20. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,207
    In the past, it has not taken our good teams time to learn how to beat the tar out of bad opponents. Pointing that out does not = “harping on every look and facial expression.” Also doesn’t mean this team can’t get a lot better and end up being a good team. But it’s just where things are at right now.

    If you want people to just hope and pray and shut their brains off, I’m sorry, I’m not going to do that.
     
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