Game Thread: Butler vs Troy (11/13)

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by ConnersvilleBulldog, Nov 13, 2021.

  1. Woof

    Woof Well-Known Member

    Last season was the first season we didn't have a player average at least 16 ppg since the 11-12 season. We didn't have a Martin/Baldwin/Dunham/Clarke/Jones that you could give the ball to and be confident they could score. Ironically, last season was also the only season I could find (at least in this century) in which five players averaged over 10 ppg. As Hinkle pointed out, depth doesn't necessarily equate to more wins. My view is that no one had a defined role last year, let alone a go-to player. We were figuring it out as we went.

    With another year under our belts, the roles seem more defined. Harris is becoming the go-to player (sneaking ever-so close to the 16ppg mark with 15.7). We saw flashes last year, but you can see his confidence is at a completely different level this year. He's scoring at all levels and doing it well.

    We've talked about how Bolden is finding his role as the spot-up shooter. Taylor is stepping into the secondary scorer role. Wilmoth is our energy/glue-guy off the bench. Nze's starting to play within himself more as well.

    It's going to take some time though. Guys like Groce and Bo haven't played enough yet to solidify how they fit, but I'm confident they'll get there. I'm interested to see how Thompson fits back on offense when he returns. He's no longer forced to be a scorer, so hopefully, he settles back into the defensive stopper/facilitator/floor general role a la the Baldwin years.
  2. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Really good teams aren’t really good teams because they have “the ability to match up with several different types of opponent.”

    Really good teams are really good teams because they have the ability to force several different types of opponents to adjust to them. That usually comes from forcing an opponent out of its comfort zone or simply being dominant at one or more facets of the game.

    Game to game adjustments primarily how you are going to apply your strengths to what opponents do/run. Being really good at that is less important that making it really hard for opponents to apply those principles to you.

    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
  3. Staxawax

    Staxawax Well-Known Member

    This. The potential of this backcourt is a joy to watch. We know what we are going to get from the returning players. Of course, as Hinkle points out, I don’t have a brain.

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  4. ButlerGoalie

    ButlerGoalie Well-Known Member

    We are also 0-3 in the opening tips. I swear, it's like winning the toss in football and deferring to the second half. I know there's stats somewhere, but I'm betting we're near the bottom in power 5 in opening tip wins.
  5. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    I will gladly lose EVERY opening tip if it means winning the actual game! :D:cool:
  6. knobcreekfan

    knobcreekfan Well-Known Member

    I would encourage anyone that thinks some people on this board have not been unreasonably critical of the program, coaches and players to peruse the last 10 years of posts. A LOT of freezing cold takes out there.

    I also find it funny that in one thread this program is being bashed for taking time to learn and gel, while in a separate thread there is praise for a coach whose teams generally improve throughout the year.

    As has been said before, drawing any conclusions from exhibition games are dumb. But many here have drawn conclusions from them. The first three official games of the year, we won. Would it have been nice to win by more? Sure it would have, but I don't see an asterisk by Duke's name because they didn't beat the spread.

    As far as the team taking time to gel, all teams take time to gel. I have not been to any practices, but I would guess that AT practices on the first team and has been since the season ended last year. Pull AT out of the first team mix and drop in Simas and the team is likely to perform differently. That is not a difficult concept.
  7. ButlerNut

    ButlerNut Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Knob...not sure how you are trying to bring rational facts to this message board! LOL:D:cool::p:p:p:p
  8. kac12568

    kac12568 Well-Known Member

    We actually won a tip.......I yelled OMG!!!!!!!!! when it happened.
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  9. ButlerGoalie

    ButlerGoalie Well-Known Member

    I know that no one asked, but I think I can sum up the naysayers' anxiety thusly. And I tend to be more of a prove it to me over potential guy.

    I think we can all agree that where we stand in recruiting and losing half of our team after this season, that this year's performance is CRUCIAL to the immediate and mid-term range of success for Butler basketball. I mean another .500 season or worse and LJ could be out, the already thin recruiting trickle dries up and we are in for some lean days. Which sucks because I am as excited as you all about the potential of this team down the road. Harris, Taylor, Luko etc really form a solid base to build on, but will they have any support? Will recruits join them?

    So, I think everyone is micro-analyzing every minute and every play with all of this weight upon their shoulders. I'm cautiously optimistic about the coming season and the next two weeks will give us plenty more about what this team's true potential might be. I think MSU and Maui (Vegas) will tell us a bunch. It should also allow this team to gel and come together. I see flashes of brilliance and flashes of WTF? It will be fun to see where the chips ultimately land, but this team is very much an unfinished product and I'm just going to enjoy the ride, because it is entirely possible that this is as good as it will get for a while. Or it might be the start of something truly special.

    Man, I hope it's the latter.
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  10. readyletsgo

    readyletsgo Well-Known Member VIP Member

    I think another big part of it is that Butler seemed to have it all at the end of the 2020 season. A probable protected seed in the NCAA tournament with a superstar Senior and a record recruiting class on the way. Then the tourney gets cancelled, the next season is a bunch of injuries, pauses, losses, then suspensions and transfers. Now we are kind of at a turning point once again. It would be really nice to see the team regain momentum with a fun season followed by a tourney bid, which as you mentioned, would ensure we don't regress with recruiting etc moving forward.
    ButlerGoalie, 2xDawg, Dawgedd and 3 others like this.
  11. Tiles52

    Tiles52 Well-Known Member

    You beat me to it. Just prior to the tip-off, I had told my brother sitting next to me that it we would probably not get an opening tip all year and then Golden goes out and surprises us all.
  12. Overland Bark

    Overland Bark Member

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  13. Shane Davis

    Shane Davis Active Member


    I think I’ve touched on this before, but honestly this is what I look back on the most in the last decade of Butler. It feels like for a long time now Butler has always been coming to a turning point. For all intensive purposes, we don’t know if LaVall is the right coach or not, but right now he’s the longest tenured coach since Brad Stevens left. If Butler is going to get back to being consistently good again, kids need to know their coach isn’t likely to leave them for another program. Before LaVall, Butler has seen nothing but people leaving, and lost momentum and inconsistent years have followed- All that while adjusting to a major conference.

    I wish we could see Butler win again like the teams of old, where defense, toughness, and sharing the ball were the foundations of the program; but if I can’t have that, then I at least want to see us get back to where there’s no risk of a roster fall out after every season. Stability has to start somewhere, and hopefully then wins will follow after that.
    Dawgedd likes this.
  14. TheDawgDub95

    TheDawgDub95 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    The comments (negative) are a part of fandom. They're not the best part of fandom, but I would much rather have an engaged fan base talking about our team (positively and negatively) than to be irrelevant because nobody cares. I'm glad the opinions and conversations are flowing because I love Butler Basketball and I love talking about it. I hope I enjoy watching it more than I have, so far, this year very soon! Wednesday and Thanksgiving week would be an awesome time for that to start

    Sent from my SM-G977U using Butler Hoops mobile app
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  15. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Never said that (maybe I should’ve).

    If you enjoy watching them play irrespective of how the team is doing now, because you like thinking about the potential of the underclassmen, good for you. I can’t turn my brain off and ignore thinking what has happened and what it likely means for the here and now.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2021
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  16. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    We actually won the tip last game so 1-2 thus far

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  17. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    I get rattled when we win the tip. Just feels wrong. Would rather defer to the second half at this point.

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  18. RPEye

    RPEye Member

    I should know the answer to this question but don’t: if Hodges’ injury keeps him out another month could redshirt be a possibility? I’m not sure that he could if he wanted to but Harris/Taylor/Hodges would be a strong place to start next year. Just a thought.

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  19. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    True! It actually made me a little nervous like something weird was going to happen.
  20. firedupkaren

    firedupkaren Well-Known Member

    We were ranked #4 in the nation 23 months ago.

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