Hinkle Heat Check Episode 5

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by Jared Grubbs, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

    Money:
    $15,957
    Lukas Harkins and Jared Grubbs discuss what's gone wrong the past few weeks for Butler basketball. Is all the criticism warranted? Does Coach Jordan deserve to be on the hot seat? Did adding Jordan Tucker hurt Butler? Plus much more.
     
  2. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

    Money:
    $15,957
    ButlerNut likes this.
  3. Coogles

    Coogles Active Member

    Money:
    $60
    Really enjoyed the episode again fellas.

    The only thing I found myself disagreeing with was the idea that our defense is still the primary problem. The team isn't without it's problems there and you touched on it later in the episode with regard to the 2pt% this group gives up and the FT rate, but I couldn't make the logical leap to agree with the idea that just because offense in late shot clock situations gets .93ppp versus .92ppp in the half court means the defense is the issue. .92 or .93ppp are both terrible. If we could hold opponents to .93ppp I think we'd all be ecstatic and stop worrying about that end of the floor. Would have been interesting to hear how the .92ppp in the half court compared to the other teams in the Big East, what the fast break ppp looks like and percentages of possessions in each category.
     
    bmradio99 likes this.
  4. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,531
    An eye opener...
     
  5. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,042
    Butler's 98th-ranked defense is the lowest it's been since 2005-2006 - THIRTEEN YEARS ago. Butler's 47th-ranked offense isn't great, but for perspective, it's an identical ranking to the Rotnei Clark year and better ranked than the 2010 Final Four year.

    So, while the offense could absolutely be better, if for no other reason than the idiocy of some of our shot selections, it's just flatly absurd to think that's where our problems start.
     
    Sidd Finch, bwesson15 and seadawg like this.
  6. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,088
    to add in all my life I've never seen a Butler team look around at each other more on defense like whose supposed to be where? and giving up more go right around layups/dunks than I have ever seen. I'm actually shocked that our defense isn't ranked lower, although we have played games where other teams can't hit water that makes it look better than it is i.e. St Johns, Providence, half of Marquette.
     
    Sidd Finch likes this.
  7. bmradio99

    bmradio99 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,414
    THANK YOU
     
    estar20dawg likes this.
  8. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,649
    That 2010 team defense was elite and in my opinion is what got us that far. To me defense is the great equalizer. I also believe defense is more dependent on attitude, effort and smarts than just about anything else. We don't have a rim protector but if you don't let your man get to the rim it doesn't matter. The two final four teams did not have a rim protector. We are thirty games into the season and subs don't know who they are guarding when they come in. I haven't seen that since I played in junior high. I can live with not making shots but not knowing who you are suppose to guard would cause me to pull a kid for the remainder of the game. Not knowing who you are guarding tells me you aren't paying attention or you don't care which is the same as having a bad attitude.
     
    estar20dawg likes this.
  9. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

    Money:
    $15,957
    I can pull up comparisons tonight during the game. But these metrics are a little different than ones we typically see. Synergy has a different definition of possession. I believe a new possession is generated with each shot. So under most places, if a team gets 5 offensive rebounds on a possession and then finally scores, that is 2 points for 1 possession. In Synergy it’s 2 points for 6 possessions. The inflated number of possessions reduces the points per possession.




    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
  10. the_speakers_lab

    the_speakers_lab Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,240
    Can't believe you got Synergy...

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,042
    It's absolutely what got us that far. My point was that the offense this year is at least adequate to do great things if the defense was good. The defense is just sad.

    Defense is about positioning - being in the right place at the right time. Period, end of story.

    Think about the athleticism of the 2010 squad versus the squad this year. Were Shelvin and Ron physically superior to AT and Kamar? No. How about our 6-3, 200 pound SF that year - Veasely? Was he physically superior to Baddley, David or Mcdermott? Of course not. Were Hayward and Howard better built for defensive excellence than Tucker and Brunk? Not really. But each of those guys were usually in the right place at the right time. This is the difference between having possibly the best defense in college basketball and having perhaps the worst defense in your league. (Note, I'm not expecting this staff to be equivalent to Brad and company in coaching defense; perhaps no coaching staff in the world is. But it serves as an illustration of just how much room for improvement there is with the personnel we have if there is proper preparation.)
     
    kmacker69 and Sidd Finch like this.
  12. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $12,649
    Agree. Those guys in 2010 were not bigger, more athletic nor capable to be better defenders. To me it boils down to coaching and attitude both of which are missing.
     
  13. shoeevv

    shoeevv Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $724
    Hink, I basically agree with you, but with the way the game is officiated now, the 2010 team wouldn't be able to play the same kind of defense.
     
  14. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,088
    True, but at least they wouldn't have given up layups and made people actually do something then just go right around with no help except a reach and a slap down. We wouldn't be pushed around and looking around waiting for a foul call.
     
  15. Sidd Finch

    Sidd Finch Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $575
    Agree 100%. I said the same thing earlier this season, but they sure as heck wouldn't look as lost as this year's team has.
     
  16. kmacker69

    kmacker69 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,707
    I think they have stepped back a little on that with the way they are calling games and allowing a lot more physical play again, especially off the ball. Still wouldn't be able to play that physical, but they wouldn't have as much problem adjusting this year as much as last few.
     
  17. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,042
    Every other team played with the same rules they did, and that team fouled far less than the average that year for NCAA D1. They'd be elite this season for the same reasons they were elite that year: they'd play physical to the limits of the rules and rarely be caught out of position. The NBA is called tighter than the college game ever will be, and Brad's teams are routinely elite defensively (top 5 in defensive efficiency three of the last four seasons).

    People remember the 2010 BU team as being far more prone to mauling opponents than they really were simply because the MSU game was such a sh*t-show. The refs let each team pummel the other, and people remember the foul Hayward got away with.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
    bwesson15, bmradio99 and shoeevv like this.
  18. shoeevv

    shoeevv Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $724
    I can't argue with anything you're saying.
     
    Hinkle likes this.
  19. Dawgedd

    Dawgedd Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,194
    Curious about the notion that NBA is called more tightly than college (my inclination is the opposite but have no hard data). I generally think a lot of touch fouls are called in college whereas the NBA allows much more physicality (at least around the rim).
     
  20. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $7,042
    I should've been more specific. I'm certainly not referring to traveling, carrying, or double dribbling - the NBA refs seem pretty clearly instructed to let that stuff go. But I've always been under the impression that historically there has been much more freedom of movement demanded by the NBA's officiating guidelines than the NCAA's, and this is a big part of the reason the NBA games flow so much better. Wasn't the driver behind the new freedom of movement guidelines in the NCAA driven by a desire to make it more like the international and NBA game? I must admit I'm not 100% positive on any of this, so I'm open to the idea if any one has any good data or sources showing the NBA allows more physical play before a foul is called.
     

Share This Page