Holtmann Telling Recruits OSU "Better Opportunity"

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by Jared Grubbs, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. Irishdawg

    Irishdawg Banned User VIP Member

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    We aren't changing the media member's minds, and they aren't changing ours. At some point we should stop wasting our time with Holtmann and *** because the media's consistent whining and complaining about the situation gives him more air time and more play which is exactly what he wants and needs to have happen. I'm turning my focus to the players and coaches on Hinkle's sidelines. Those are the folks that deserve my attention going forward. Go Dawgs
     
  2. ChiTownDawg

    ChiTownDawg Member

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    I think this is all a little silly. He tweeted #1 after he turned them down. They obviously sweetened the deal significantly the 2nd time around. Do we have any evidence of #2? Someone got the info wrong on social media. That happens all the time without bad leaks. I must have missed #3. When did he say that? And this 2nd hand quote here is hardly an extreme case of negative recruiting. So he said he left for a better opportunity. Isn't it kind of obvious he thinks that since he...well...left?
     
  3. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    This isn't a Holtbitch thread so I don't want to hijack it, but, your response makes me want to say, yes, you are right about #1, #2 was done intentionally as a PR move of sorts to make it look like he had no choice, #3 he definitely said and then went directly to Young, which is quite the no-no, #4 no idea. He could be bad mouthing us to all of his targets...or he could be being completely fair (doubtful). I wouldn't necessarily use it for motivation, because with so much information and bullshit out there, the players will have their own. But, I wouldn't doubt any of these points. We saw his true colors, it was ugly, now it's time to come together and kick that ass on the court.
     
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  4. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    One of the media guys (Zagoria I think) tweeted the 1.2 number and said he got it from Holt's agent. He later deleted it, but by then that number had become gospel among media. Even Woods had printed it at one point I believe, and I rode everyone about it on twitter.

    Since then, Collier has flat out said those numbers were a lie, wherever they came from, and finally today, Woods' piece on LaVall stated that Holtmann was up around 2mm per year, which is what many on here assumed was the number all along based on the fact that Holt was earning close to a 1mm rate as an interim and had been hired full time and given multiple extensions since.

    The reason this piece of BS has been the one to really set my hair on fire is that it plays so into the Horizon/cute story narrative about Butler that we can't shake from the media, and it is actively damaging to the program.... and Holt either facilitated the lie or let it happen, for no good reason other than to soften the blowback when the news broke - make it seem like I had NO choice by saying I was making half what I was.


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  5. ChiTownDawg

    ChiTownDawg Member

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    Do you have a link for #3?
     
  6. ChiTownDawg

    ChiTownDawg Member

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    Ok. I never saw the original tweet with a source. I completely agree it hurts Butler.
     
  7. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    You need to go through this site and see the various questionable actions Holtmann took after he accepted tha OSU job.
     
  8. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    No. I have a CBB insider who is a friend. We all know who that is. I, out of respect, keep most things said quiet, but big changes and things like this, I leak...let's just hope he doesn't read the board so he keeps feeding me info :)

    Saying that, even if I didn't...does anyone really believe there was no meddling? Of course there was...hell I just got fired from a job (like a month ago) because I had accepted another job, I meddled, someone squealed, I was escorted out by policemen. Everyone meddles. You always try and keep your assets as close as possible, no matter. It's the way this dirty world works. Right? Nope. Accurate? Yep. I can promise you, and **** Holtmann but I would have done the same....Young was his prize get. His hands were in Young's pockets before he even took the job. And we hate him because it hurts us as a program/fandom. BUT, many of us do the same damn thing when switching careers. My problem with him is he doesn't shoot it straight and the drool from the Indy media over him makes me throw up about 3 times an hour. I don't get that.
     
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  9. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

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    I can't seem to find where it was published online now. It's somewhere. I had multiple people tell me Holtmann was going to be calling the recruits and telling them to stay at Butler. It was why I predicted all 5 would stay from the very beginning. I was always a little skeptical about Young, but I thought it was weird for Holtmann to supposedly make that statement and then turn right around and call Young. I'm certainly irritated, but all things considered I won't really care once the emotions die down. Other programs are buying hookers for recruits and we are getting mad because a coach may have possibly lied to the fans.
     
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  10. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    Tom Davis
     
  11. ButlerFan89

    ButlerFan89 New Member

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    I found it. David Woods online article June 11. He says Holtmann told IndyStar he wanted incoming freshman class to stay intact:

    However, as he was exiting, Holtmann told IndyStar it was important to him that Butler preserve its roster and that the recruiting class remain intact. The recruiting class, ranked 27th by ESPN, is the highest-rated in Butler history.
     
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  12. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

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    Awesome. I need to put this all together somewhere.


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  13. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

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    I also moved this discussion to its own thread. No need to make it a part of the Weaver discussion.
     
  14. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    So I think we may be missing something here; that quote is quoting Weaver quoting Holtmann. So it is conceivably possible, Holtmann just told him it's a new school, and a few other things, which Weaver summarized in his own words as a much better opportunity.

    I believe the correct way to punctuate that to avoid ambiguities would be to use apostrophes around Holtmann's quote within Weaver's quote, but that was obviously not even attempted, so we really don't know.

    I'm not inclined to give Holt the benefit of the doubt, but I also don't want to have an irrational witch hunt.


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  15. butlerdude05

    butlerdude05 Active Member

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    I don't get Holtmann getting credit for saving butler/righting the ship. BMills had them playing well out of conference without Rosie Jones. We still had all the players. Holtmann was just in the right place at the right time and made the most of his opportunity. If he tanked and we opened the job search up, we would have attracted someone with similar or a better pedigree than Holtmann at that point in time who would have righted the ship too. I don't think he worked a miracle or anything like that but simply did a job that plenty of others could have done too. We just got played because Holtmann never wanted to be here long term despite what he said year after year. Too bad he didn't take the GT job so he could have fallen off the face of the earth instead of just being a state away and having to hear his name all the time yet on the recruiting trail

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  16. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    We can stay pissed at CH now, but he did a nice job with his time at BU. Better than average IMO. The team had numerous player defections and appeared to be a rudderless ship for a period. He assembled a decent coaching staff, added some quality recruits in his time here. It bites the way recent events have occurred. I'm not on board with the ethics surrounding KY or CH's leaving and taking the assistants. Honestly though, what do we expect him to say, now that he is at OSU? Thus far things could not have turned out better for BU at this point, so lets all move on and leave this $hit behind. I'd much rather talk about Tommy Orner's game winner to stun the suckeyes decades ago.
     
  17. theRick03

    theRick03 New Member

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    I agree. I will give credit to Holtmann doing a very good job during his time as HC at Butler and representing the school well. But it seems that no one in the media mentions that without BU there is a near zero chance that he is now at OSU. He came into a perfect storm and provided stability/good coaching, but also reaped the benefits (in $ and job security).
    Miller's coaching tenure saddens me - the truth is we will never know what could have been... with a roster of his recruits, Rose in the lineup, etc. I seem to recall that many of the losses were close or late leads that were given up. Who knows, but things happen for a reason, Holtmann definitely benefited from the situation, and now we have a Butler guy as HC who is in a much better spot than he would have been 4 years ago. Exciting times for the Dawgs!
    You would hope that Holtmann's actions would match his reputation... and maybe we are a bit harsh on him, but to paint him as a saint and savior of Butler basketball is too much as well. Personally, I always rooted for former Butler coaches to succeed, but in this case I won't be rooting at all. Moving on and looking forward to cheering on LaVall and the team.
     
  18. Red1972

    Red1972 Well-Known Member

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    Well said!
     
  19. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I agree that BU did as much for CH as CH did for BU. Something to keep in mind is that the team improved from 14-17 (4-14 in the BE) to 23-8 (12-6) in CH's first yr. Add the fact that BU surpassed predictions by both the media and BE coaches the next 2 yrs. While not a savior still a pretty amazing job given the circumstances. No I won't root for CH. I can't root for OSU. By the same token none of us should be surprised too surprised if the OSU BB program rises more rapidly than expected. The current staff needs to do everything possible to make sure BU's recruiting doesn't suffer because of it and prove this program is no longer a steppingstone job.
     
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  20. MilkSteak

    MilkSteak Well-Known Member

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    The 2013-2014 team was better than advertised. That team just couldn't close games, and I do imagine having Miller at the helm played a role in that.

    BUT...that team would've been much better with Rosey too. He obviously was a great player, but his absence also forced Woods to play the three (not his natural position). With Rosey on the court and Kam in his natural position (under the bucket), that team would've reached 20 wins. If you remember the 2013-2014 squad was HORRIBLE on the boards.

    IMO, Holtmann played a large role in the turnaround, but there is much, much more to the story. Rosey's absence was a huge reason the 2013-2014 struggled and the 2014-2015 team succeeded.
     

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