IU and the Crossroads Classic

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by godogs91, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. godogs91

    godogs91 Active Member

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    Looks like Osterman didn't have anything better to cover and was trying to stir up the fan base this morning.

    https://www.indystar.com/story/spor...hould-iu-remain-crossroads-classic/722976002/

    If he's wanting to have the Hoosiers up their non-conference scheduling, shouldn't they perhaps look at getting rid of one of their other cupcakes? Oh, wait, we've seen what scheduling IPFW has done for them...
    Unless they are looking to consistently schedule Kentucky, Louisville, Duke, or Kansas on home-and-homes every year (which I think is easier said than done in the age of expanded conference schedules), they can't do much better than Notre Dame and Butler on an annual basis. UCLA? Their average KenPom rating since the Crossroads was started is 43. Butler's is 50, and that's with us finishing at 116 that 2011-12 season. Butler and Notre Dame have shown to be pretty consistent in or around the Top 40 in KenPom ratings, and typically won't be a drain on RPI, etc. at the end of the season. And if I were one of the blue-bloods, would I necessarily want to schedule IU, knowing their lack of consistency over the past several years? IU's average KenPom rating the past 5 years is the lowest of the 4 teams in the Classic. Is Archie turning the corner with the program? With the class he has this year, he better be. But Hoosier fans (and their beat writer, it appears) need to stop thinking it's 1987 and they are the only game in the state.
     
  2. Dunhamfor3

    Dunhamfor3 Member

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    I would understand if IU left the cross roads and stopped scheduling in state programs like IPFW. Hard to act like you are a bluebood when you are getting beat down by instate programs yearly and proved to be the 4th-5th best team in the state for the last decade plus.





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  3. kmacker69

    kmacker69 Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    The entire discussion is centered around if they are a great team does it hurt them or help them? They are putting the cart before the horse on this one! (And they beat the hell out of that dead horse!)
     
  4. Irishdawg

    Irishdawg Super Moderator VIP Member

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    I actually didn't have a problem with the way they approached it, and I think if IU were to bail out of it, it would leave the possibility that Indiana would have to play on the road at Hinkle in the Gavitt Games. It doesn't make sense now since they play Butler every other year on a neutral court.

    Results or not, IU is the big-name program in the state, and probably always will be, and reviving the Indiana-Kentucky rivalry would be a huge deal. Now, they were talking about doing a home and home with Kentucky, which my guess is as long as Cal's there that isn't going to happen. Even so, they aren't wrong in saying that if they get the opportunity to play a North Carolina or Kentucky every year on that weekend, it would be better for their resume (assuming they would win some) than Notre Dame or Butler most years.

    Now, where they kind of lose their footing is when they bring up UCLA (as the OP stated). UCLA's average kenpom rating during their time under Alford is 39. Now, based on the names of the schools involved it might get more eyeballs than a matchup against Butler or Notre Dame, but it wouldn't give them a better win.
     
  5. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    Maybe IU should focus on actually making March Madness rather than deciding if not playing two Indiana schools who are consistently in every year makes sense.
     
  6. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    I generally agree. Maybe they can make more money doing a home and home with a big-name opponent. (I say "maybe" because I think that's far from certain; like they said, none of us knows the financials.) And if that's the case, and they want to chase dollars, go for it. Similarly, if you want to do it simply to get more national exposure, and you can make it work, I get it, go for it and good luck.

    But I totally disagree with the idea that they should do it to boost their resume. That's laughable. A) They've never played an opponent in the Crossroads where a win does anything but boost the resume; and B) unless you win against an elite opponent, the game doesn't help their resume. If you can't reliably beat ND and Butler such that you can count on the series to boost your resume, how in the world is playing UNC or UK going to boost your resume? It wouldn't, it would just serve to embarrass unless IU suddenly becomes something they haven't been in ~25 years.

    I also totally disagree that they should move around to serve the alumni bases in other large markets. A) How many alumni does IU really have in LA/Atlanta, etc., especially relative to Indy?; B) How much do alumni in LA/Atlanta/etc. care about IU basketball (sure were a lot of IU fans at the B1G tourneys in NY and DC ---- NOT); C) the people who do care about IU basketball enough that they're going to donate/become season ticket holders/support the program, for the most part, live in Indy.
     
  7. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    There is little benefit to accrue to Kentucky by playing IU.
     
  8. MilkSteak

    MilkSteak Well-Known Member

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    IU fans constantly b*tch about this event and then 10,000 of them show up.

    Might be a bad take, but I honestly don’t think it would be a big deal if this event didn’t continue. Butler would still have one of the best preconference schedules among the Big 6 even if they didn’t play IU this year.
     
  9. mizebl

    mizebl Active Member

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    Vocal minority effect. Majority of fans like the chance to see IU in an awesome venue close to holidays. Concern is for sake of argument, IF IU were to pull out would all other schools as well because who would you replace them with?
     
  10. Snozzberry

    Snozzberry New Member

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    Show them up by pulling in higher competition from one nearby out of state school in following order of preference: Kentucky, L'ville, Michigan, MSU, Cincy, Xavier, Illinois.
    The only school that is a drop in class from a competition standpoint from IU would be Illinois, but there is a historical connection to bring them into the fold if IU pulled out. IU fans need to realize they need Crossroads as much or more than Crossroads needs IU. IU playing UCLA annually rather than Butler/ND does nothing for them. Allowing another program to replace IU would benefit the other program by participating in a marquee event at IU's expense.
     
  11. DawgsMD

    DawgsMD Forum Psychiatrist VIP Member

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    Add insult to injury and add Dayton ha. But seriously the list you provided seems good.


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  12. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

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    The Crossroads is my favorite day of college hoops until March, so I hope it doesn't go anywhere. But if it did, Butler probably wouldn't have any issue filling it with another good neutral game or another good home v home series, so I don't think there's any doubt scheduling would be fine.

    An annual game against Gonzaga seems natural and way overdue, anyway.
     
  13. NCJon

    NCJon Active Member VIP Member

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    If IU were to pull out, I'd like to think you could keep the event going by pulling in another school, probably one with more recent success than IU (what is that? Half of Division I?)

    Given the resumes of Butler, Notre Dame and Purdue over the last decade, it's hard to imagine there would not be some really good programs interested in that fourth spot. @Snozzberry 's list is good. I'd love to see a team from a fourth conference so they could be on a three-year rotation which would let Butler and Notre Dame play every few years. I wouldn't limit the potential teams to the immediate states or even the midwest.
     
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  14. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I would think Louisville would be interested, and I assume there is a decent sized alumni group in Indiana.
     
  15. MSUDawg

    MSUDawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    And after 30 seconds of additional thought - Cincinnati would also be a great alternative.
     
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  16. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

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    Cincy would be a good choice for them being in the AAC it would be a resume booster than the conference itself can't give them outside a few teams.
     
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  17. butlernut

    butlernut Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    I don't disagree with any of the names tossed around. But part of the allure of the day (in my very feeble opinion) is that it is all Indiana schools. Kind of a "King of the Hill" or "Bragging Rights" feel to it. I would like to see that element stay. But Valpo, ISU, Ball State, etc. just don't have the same draw...regardless of my personal feelings for IU.
     
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  18. shoeevv

    shoeevv Active Member VIP Member

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    Don't everybody crush me for this, but I think Walter McCarty will have a top 40 program at Evansville in a few years. You can't believe his profile down here, he is literally EVERYWHERE. It won't happen overnight, but I think they can become Butler Lite. That doesn't mean they should take the 4th spot in the Crossroads, but I do think, if IU leaves, they might be the logical replacement if you want to stay with all Indiana schools.
     
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  19. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 New Member

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    How many times have we seen IU 'win the recruiting war' and look like 'paper champions' only to disappoint in the actual season?

    Not saying they don't have a talented team, but let's see them actually win some games before we start acting like they're some Top 5 team.

    If they leave the Crossroads, so what, it's their loss.
     
  20. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member

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    I’m not sure what would happen if IU left. My guess is things would kind of fall apart. It just loses a lot of appeal if it’s not the 4 high major Indiana schools.

    But if IU left and they did find a replacement, you could actually do more things with it if that team came from another conference. For example, you could turn it into a 2 day event and make it an actual tournament.


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