Jordan Tucker's shooting

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by Baseline, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. Baseline

    Baseline Active Member

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    Jordan is shooting 36% on all FG attempts. He is an astonishing 18-51 on two pt attempts. 35%. Anyway you look at it, that is awful. He leans back on every 2 pt jumper. Don't know if it's been addressed by coaches or if he is not coachable. He is strong, quick and get elevate on his jumper. None of that matters if he can't put the ball in the hole. This team needs him, McDermott and Golden to score in order to win against good opponents, especially on the road.
     
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  2. ButlerGrad1111

    ButlerGrad1111 Active Member

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    Who cares. He’s a solid shooter and making strides on defense. Stop making things about tucker bigger than they are


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  3. TheDawgDub95

    TheDawgDub95 Well-Known Member

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    Tuck has made significant strides, but he still has a long way to go before he plays a winning brand of basketball. St. John's and DePaul are loaded with talented kids but their results are what they are. Tuck was not a major reason why we lost, today, their were a litany of reasons, but it would be nice if he consistently became a reason why we won.

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  4. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

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    Tucker has been a little quiet lately, but I don't blame his shooting struggles anymore than others like McDermott and Golden today.

    He's made a lot of strides this season, especially on defense and in rebounding.

    Butler does need him to get going soon because our bench really lacks any punch without him though (and we tend to lose when both him and McDermott are quiet).
     
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  5. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    He takes a lot of terrible 2 point jump shots. It appears they run plays for him to take such shots. That should never happen but it does.


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  6. Staxawax

    Staxawax Well-Known Member

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    His biggest problem is when he drives the lane he thinks he’s only 5’ 9”. If he would take it to the rack more often he would be shooting 8-10 free throws a game.


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  7. dawg767

    dawg767 Active Member VIP Member

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    I'm not sure the issue is his mid-range game -- I know he made at least one 18 footer vs Marq. The issue is quite simply he is the worst finisher I can remember seeing in a long time. He needs to go stronger, he has the hops to dunk. This needs to be a focus in his practice and preparation. The coaching staff sees the same stats we do so I'm sure or hope they are working with him on this.

    The bottom line is you are right here. It is inexcusable for a Wing -- or anyone for that matter -- to basically to shoot this % from 2. We can talk all we want about his improved defense (it's still just average) but the bottom line is that Tucker's inefficiency from 2 is definitely hurting the Team.

    To put this in team context, McD is shooting 65.6% from 2. As others have said, McD absolutely needs to be taking the ball to the rack more. He's made 22 more 2 pt FGs than Tucker on 7 more shots -- basically almost twice as efficient. The coaching staff needs to do a better job designing more motion, backdoor cuts (anything) to get McD the ball. For one, I'd like to see more high ball screens with McD as the screener for KB. We saw this on the game winning shot vs Nova but other than that not very often that I can remember. I can tell you this action will put the defense in a very uncomfortable position and also open up space in the post for Golden and Nze.
     
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  8. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    He needs to get better at both levels inside the line, but the most direct path to doing so is not trying to become a better finisher, it’s eliminating the mid range. Tucker is 13/33 at the rim. That’s really bad. But he’s 7/22 on all other 2 point shots. That’s significantly worse.

    When you go to the basket you give yourself a chance to get fouled or kick the ball out. It’s a better play even at lower shooting percentages. Shooting 7/22 on midrange shots is simply inexcusable and are basically empty possessions. Even if he continues to shoot only 40% he’s a much better if he just stops shooting midrange jumpers.

    I’d also posit that you’re missing the boat on Tucker defensively. He’s been close to, if not the best, defender we have in conference play.


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  9. dawg767

    dawg767 Active Member VIP Member

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    I would posit that 39% finish rate at the rim is just as bad and probably worse than 32% from mid-range. Regardless, both are absolutely hideous and hurting the Team.

    And to say he is the team's best defender is disingenuous at best and is doing a disservice to AT. If JT was the team's best defender we would see him chasing Howard or Powell around the court at times to give KB or AT a break on that end. He is definitely not a lockdown defender.
     
  10. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    32% on 2’s is worse than 39% on 2’s. What is worse from a relative standpoint is not relevant to my point. It is simple math that he is more inefficient in the midrange game than he is at the rim.

    In conference stats as the primary defender:

    Aaron Thompson: 76 possessions 65 points .855 points per possessions

    Jordan Tucker: 75 possessions 51 points. .68 ppp.

    Now I understand there is a lot more that goes into the equation than raw data; AT typically guards the best player, AT has been hurt, and AT is better off the ball. These considerations are why I did not make the claim as an absolute and left room for consideration of AT as being the best despite the numbers.





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  11. dawg767

    dawg767 Active Member VIP Member

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    Yes, you're right. It is 'simple math' that ignores the fact that a shot at the rim is at least twice as likely to be made as a mid-range jumper.
     
  12. Dawgedd

    Dawgedd Well-Known Member

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    your point just doesn't matter. you dont get more points for a midrange vs. layup.
     
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  13. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    I think this reinforces my point-a shooter who is bad at mid range shots becomes far more efficient when they stop shooting mid range shots. For this to counter my point you would need to get at least twice as many points from midrange as you do at the basket, and as Dawedd already stated, you don’t.


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  14. dawg767

    dawg767 Active Member VIP Member

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    Thanks you, I'm aware that they both count for two points lol. All I'm saying here is a layup is a far easier shot than a mid-range jumper and to compare the shooting %'s of them is an apples to oranges comparison. To claim otherwise makes no sense. I played D1 up until my junior year and I can tell you that I made layups at a significantly greater rate than an elbow jumper.

    He should just stop shooting 2's period then. No one should be playing D1 college basketball if he can't finish better than 39% at the rim. Hell, no one should be playing HS BB shooting layups like that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  15. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Alright well now you’re just writing statements that support the claim I was initially making so I have absolutely no idea what point you’re trying to make.




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  16. TheDawgDub95

    TheDawgDub95 Well-Known Member

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    His on ball defense has gotten better as long as a screen doesn't come into play. If he is on ball or off ball and gets screened, there are way too many easy dunks and layups or wide open looks occurring, imo.

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  17. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    While I agree with you that it is his on ball defense that has improved the most, I’m not sure I believe he’s a liability off the ball or on screens anymore.

    The numbers I cited above would include any instances where his man shoots after an off ball screen or off of a ball screen. The only thing I believe it would not include are situations where someone else has to cover for his mistake, or something we’re like he gets screened creating a mismatch somewhere else on the court.

    While those things can happen, I can’t immediately recall many recently.


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  18. dawg767

    dawg767 Active Member VIP Member

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    Well, I guess we'll just agree to disagree on which is suckier: 39% at the rim or 32% from mid-range. They both suck beyond comprehension though, which I believe is the point of this thread.

    This team would probably be a win or two better if Tucker and McD's usage % were reversed.
     
  19. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

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    Can someone other than Dawg767 help me understand what he is disagreeing with me on at this point? I honestly don’t know.


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  20. dawg767

    dawg767 Active Member VIP Member

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    It's very simple. I'm disagreeing with your statement below:

    "32% on 2’s is worse than 39% on 2’s. What is worse from a relative standpoint is not relevant to my point. It is simple math that he is more inefficient in the midrange game than he is at the rim."

    If you've ever played a lick of basketball, you'd know that a layup and a midrange jumper are not the same shot and should not be compared like for like -- except for the # of points, which someone so astutely pointed out to me.
     

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