Lavall Jordan Replacement (seriously not serious)

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by MasterSplinter, Jan 4, 2019.

  1. MasterSplinter

    MasterSplinter Active Member

    Money:
    $435
    Jamie Smalligan anyone (with Jeff Foster as assistant of course)?

    Seriously, can we end the talk of Lavall getting replaced anytime soon? He's on a 6-year deal (maybe more but i don't know extension details) and is clearly a Collier guy.

    Like many I've got issues with his coaching but I'll have to accept that in order to not compromise our recruiting for the next decade and hope he'll improve.

    I understand it's easy to get emotional with Butler bball and have done so myself (see some game threads from around this time last year), but big picture it would be a catastrophe to change HC again.

    Victory Firelight sums it all up best on Twitter:

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
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  2. Red1972

    Red1972 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,340
    Have to agree, recruiting is the key Butler needs stability in coaching not the turmoil of coaching changes. Hang in there Dawg fans.
    dawg
     
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  3. Irishdawg

    Irishdawg Banned User VIP Member

    Money:
    $120
    Thank you.

    I'm not going to say that this year is going to be easy, or that things are going to get fixed this year, but don't eat your own. Coach Jordan isn't one of the top 10-15 coaches in all of basketball right now, unlike a couple of his predecessors, and that's the standard we're holding him to. Beilein (since everyone thinks Coach Jordan is modeling after Michigan) was 46-49 in his first 3 years at Michigan, then had a run of 4 straight tourney appearances (including a runner-up and Elite 8 finish), then went .500 and missed the tournament again before he built it back up to what they are now, and I think he's one of the best coaches in college basketball and has significantly more resources at his disposal than Jordan does at Butler.

    I do think that next year's roster looks SIGNIFICANTLY better than this year's with Nze and then Tucker and Golden being more integrated into the team, not to mention Battle being able to bring in some scoring ability. David Woods did an interview with some guys in Omaha, and he thinks Baldwin's issues likely need an offseason to address, and I'd agree with him on that. They do draw up plays for McDermott a couple times every game, but you aren't going to beat Big East teams that way.

    I also liked with Victory Firelight had to say

     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  4. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $13,334
    Interesting you mention Michigan. Myers and a Jordan were there during the time Michigan didn't perform at the level they are now.
     
  5. Irishdawg

    Irishdawg Banned User VIP Member

    Money:
    $120
    What "level" are you talking about? Michigan, both with Jordan and MEYER and without Jordan and Meyer made the championship game. Michigan w/Jordan and Meyer had a much closer championship game (as a lower seed) than last year's team did (since your analysis appears to be purely based on results and doesn't take into account the context of where they were coming from and build up of Michigan's program during the entirety of Beilein's run), and also finished the 2013 kenpom season higher than last year's team finished, or where this year's team is currently at (though they are very similar).

    Roster configuration is a big part of it, and things take time to build. Had you said, Michigan is a better defensive team now than when Jordan and Meyer were at Michigan, I would agree with you, and bringing in Luke Yaklich was a big part of that. But simply saying "Michigan didn't perform at the level they are now" with a grand total of a year and a half of sample size (guess who was there recruiting the older guys on their current and last year's roster), is goofy, and again, doesn't consider where Michigan was as a program at the start of Beilein's run vs. where the program is at today.

    Jordan was at Michigan from 2010-2016. During that time they made the tournament 5/7 years, made the National Title game and an elite 8. Michigan had made the tournament in 1 of the previous 11 seasons. Meyer was there from 2008-17, had 7/10 tourney appearances, and a S16 to go with the E8 and Runner-up finish.
     
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  6. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,530
    It's only a matter off time before the fireLJ.com is up and running. Sarcasm font mode not working.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  7. nindiana

    nindiana Member

    Money:
    $122
    I do agree that LaVall needs time, and continuity is important to a successful program. I do think we need to take a long, hard look at what our assistant coaches bring to the table, and make changes if necessary.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  8. Hinkle Magic2

    Hinkle Magic2 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $846
    I think Jordan's here a minimum of two seasons after this one, so he's not going anywhere anytime soon. I like that he's a true Butler guy, but we have to hope he improves--much like the current squad.
     
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  9. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,114
    Need to take a look at the assistants. Bringing in a top-flight Xs and Os guy should be a priority.
     
  10. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $13,334
    Those Michigan years consisted of elite talent yet the offense was very similar to what Butler runs now which is stagnant eith often a late in the clock shot.

    Watch Michigan!s offense now versus Butler’s offense related to ball movemeny sets and shot selection.

    Defensive failures have a lot of times been related to not communicating, not knowing who they are guarding or not getting back on D. These are fixable and are on the players.

    The offensive sets are on the staff.

    I’m not for sacking LJ. He needs size, talent, athleticism and a point guard who can drive, penetrate, create and shoot.
     
  11. Irishdawg

    Irishdawg Banned User VIP Member

    Money:
    $120
    This is more reasonable to me, but Michigan's offense now is similar or slightly less efficient than it was with Jordan and Meyer there (that could be because Zavier Simpson can't shoot), so both ways can and do work. As you stated, having guards who can create for others and shoot is a big part of it. Currently Butler has a guard who can create (Thompson), and one who can score (Baldwin), but neither is good at both, and neither is good from distance (though I think Baldwin is much better as a catch and shoot guy). I think that's going to take development on their part (which is also in part on the staff), because I don't see Battle as a creator for others next season.
     
  12. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,979
    I think Battle might be a better creator than you might think. He certainly is not a PG but I think you will be pleasantly surprised with what he can do on offense. I do have glaring questions about his defense and what I've seen from our team this year that worries me a bit. But he's definitely athletic enough to be a solid defender if the coaching staff can teach it and get him to buy in on that end.
     
  13. Gregory Roach

    Gregory Roach Active Member

    Money:
    $345
    Insane, I couldn't have said it better.

    Defense is related to: 1) effort, 2) communication, 3) group movement/positioning and 4) speed. Three of those four attributes have NOTHING to do with genetics and are all coachable/teachable. Even if a team cannot attack, they should be able to defend well and make it difficult for the opposition.

    Butler's offensive scheme is completely disconnected from the current capabilities of the roster. It requires a complete rethink as to approach.

    As for LJ and his staff, they are less than half-way through their SECOND season. They made the NCAA tournament without ANY PLAYERS they had recruited. Let's give the coaching staff the same opportunity for growth we give these young men, however painful it might be.

    I agree the current path is painful to watch. I agree Coach Jordan has made some curious decisions. However, part of the pain of being a supporter is allowing the LEARNING process to play out for staff and players alike which benefits all in the long run. Butler Men's Basketball has always been about program development with a long term view of progress. Let's not lose sight of that vision for one challenging season.
     
  14. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,979
    I agree it will take a learning curve from all. But I'm a little concerned at LJ's unwillingness to see and utilize his defensive strengths in his guards and let them challenge the opposing guards all the way up the court. I can't believe how bad both KB and to a lesser extent AT was the other day against Georgetown's freshman backcourt. I would have wanted to see how their freshman would handle the Big East opener on the road with pressure applied immediately instead of let them get comfortable early.
     
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  15. ButlerGoalie

    ButlerGoalie Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,210
    LaVallOut.com would be a good option as well...haha

    And no, I'm not advocating his removal, just making a joke.
     
  16. Baddog

    Baddog Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $5,510
    Have to agree.....LaVall will be around for a long time. Calling for him to be fired at this point is silly. Will never happen. Equally as silly is the rationalization or writing off of poor coaching and game preparation on those same factors, recruiting in the Big East and coaching turnover. What? Exactly how does recruiting and coaching turnover have one thing to do with something as ill-advised and counterproductive as hero ball? Or bad shot selection without consequences? Or...you can go on and on. Equally as ridiculous is the...."well, these players he inherited just don't fit his style or game plan" argument. Then change the fricking game plan.

    If you think Jordan is being held to some ridiculous Stevens/Holtmann standard (what?), then let's just agree to judge him on a basic good basketball and competency level for any D1 coach who has spent the last 20+ years playing or coaching basketball at his level. Again, not calling for him to be fired. He's a long, long way from that fate. I really want him to succeed. But as long as he is calling the shots and the coaching continues to suck and the basketball is as ugly as it has been, he deserves the criticism. Or isn't that what a chat board is all about?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  17. Gregory Roach

    Gregory Roach Active Member

    Money:
    $345
    I concur. Though I advise patients to allow the coaching staff to learn from their mistakes, just like players, DOES NOT mean they shouldn't be held responsible and accountable. They absolutely should and must. If they can't or won't, than that falls on Barry Collier to correct.
     
  18. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,859
    LaVall isnt going anywhere. On the bright side, that includes big money football schools hiring him away.

    Really though, he is showing to be a strong recruiter so far, and he will likely get better at the X's and O's. It's possible we see changes to the assistant coaches, but I'm not sure what kind of head coach LaVall will be in that regard. Will he have the backbone to dismiss coaches who aren't bringing enough value to the team? No idea. Not everyone is comfortable firing people, especially when you work so closely with them on a daily basis.
     
  19. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,859
    That's interesting, Doc. How do your patients respond to you when you suddenly start advising them on Butler Basketball? Does it matter what you are treating them for? Is this only for Butler Basketball induced anxiety attacks?
     
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  20. Gregory Roach

    Gregory Roach Active Member

    Money:
    $345
    Spelling was never one of my strengths as you have so humorously demonstrated.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Butler Hoops mobile app
     
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