LaVall Jordan

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by ButlerFan89, Nov 18, 2021.

  1. ButlerFan89

    ButlerFan89 Member

    Money:
    $100
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
  2. ButlerFan89

    ButlerFan89 Member

    Money:
    $100
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2021
  3. SpartanDawgs

    SpartanDawgs Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $200
    Very Cheap.... You would think Barry Collier would have $$$ with all these buyouts they have received. Butler still living the good ole days and hasn't felt what its like to be a losing program. Hopefully the administration and the boosters get a reality check here soon and realized some serious $$$ will need to be brought in to turn this around.
     
  4. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $7,550
    Confused…you think Vall should be paid more? We’ve paid coaches (see Stevens & Holtmann) competitive salaries so it’s not like we’ve been cheap in that regard. Are we behind our peers in other spending areas—no question. I’m sure Athletics and those who fundraise for it are doing all they can to bring in more money—building the kind of relationship that results in (multiple) 7 figure gifts takes a minute.
     
  5. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,335
    Just a sucky feeling to be a fan at the moment. I've wanted nothing more than for LaVall to succeed and be another feel-good story among Butler coaching history, the alum (especially one that helped lay the foundation for our 2000s success) keeping his alma mater on an upward trajectory. But it's just not happening. And he more than others should realize the mediocrity we're heading towards as a program, and I can't imagine how that makes him feel. Someone else mentioned we're at a crossroads as a program, and I completely agree.
     
    mwall787, ButlerNut, 2xDawg and 6 others like this.
  6. Title

    Title Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $411
    Clearly he means that Butler should be paying a real coaching staff real Big East rates, not that this staff needs that
     
    BigHoss likes this.
  7. butlerguy03

    butlerguy03 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,316
    What if I said that the real loss was not multiple coaches, but Bobby Fong in 2010. The emphasis on men's basketball to elevate the university seems to have taken less importance under Danko.
     
  8. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,437
    Danko's job is to build the university, not necessarily the bball program. Look around at all the new dorms & facilities. Enrollment is up. He's done a great job.

    The person who would be on the hot seat is probably Barry. He missed on Brandon. Now he's missed on LaVall. The alumni career development program isn't exactly working.
     
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  9. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $8,100
    I think it’s a very easy case to make that basketball built all of that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  10. Crash

    Crash Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $624
    It is time for a change at the top. As others have inferred, we're lacking the vision to be a player in the BE on a large scale.
    Move Collier to a symbolic role and let's go after an up-and-coming assistant AD with the pedigree to build a sustainable BE program. Dumping Jordan at the end of this season so Collier can be in charge or hiring again is not prudent.
    The campus improvements, conference changes, and prior success are all appreciated, but we're still running our athletic dept like a small business. We lack the creativity and drive to continue our ascent.
     
    burns, bumba, willisbrown and 6 others like this.
  11. knobcreekfan

    knobcreekfan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,384
    Everyone, repeat after me....

    We are an institution of higher learning, not a professional basketball team. Our institution's success is not defined by the on court performance of our basketball program.
    We are an institution of higher learning, not a professional basketball team. Our institution's success is not defined by the on court performance of our basketball program.
    We are an institution of higher learning, not a professional basketball team. Our institution's success is not defined by the on court performance of our basketball program.

    We have increased applications. We have increased enrollment. The academic quality of students is up. We have an incredibly diverse student body. We have an insurance program that is nationally recognized and has been written up in the NYT. We have two beautiful new dorms. New business school building is wonderful. New science complex is in the works. Schrott Center. Remodel of Clowes. Looking at the campus, the last 20-25 years have been good to Butler.

    The basketball program has done a good job helping build awareness and name recognition for Butler. However, if the education and living quarters are sh*t, students are not going to enroll here. Long Horn does a lot of advertising and has name recognition, but if I am going out for a good steak dinner, that is NOT where I am going.
     
  12. Crash

    Crash Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $624
    1. Butler is an institution of higher learning and I love the Butler way and I would rather be mediocre in basketball than associated with a cheating program.

      BUT,
    2. If not for the 2 final fours, the Butler we see today is not a reality to the current scale. https://www.indystar.com/story/spor...ss-worth-butler-maybe-its-identity/428087002/

    3. Butler went to 2 finals with crappy dorm rooms, and below AVG facilities all around. The 2 final four runs netted Butler upwards of a $1B in marketing exposure for the Horizon League upstart. Just look at the applications following the 2 FF and you'll see a massive increase. As Butler elevated in conferences, more continued exposure, stronger student body, more donations, more money, and so on.

    4. Butler has all these nice things because of our 2 FF runs and taking advantage of our elevated brand to build better facilities. If we don't think the reverse can be true, we're fooling ourselves. Not saying a bad basketball team will lead to crappy dorms in the future, but I am saying that if our brand is reliant on Butler being an institution of higher learning, Purdue, ND, IU, and a host of other regional schools will eat our lunch. Butler and basketball go together now. If we don't accept that, we're fooling ourselves.
     
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  13. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $8,100
    Butler is a lot of things but idk if diverse is one I’d throw in there.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
    bumba likes this.
  14. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $7,550
    Yeah, I got that, but my point was that Butler hasn’t been “cheap” when it comes to a HC salary. Both Brad and Holtmann were fairly compensated vs. their peers/success/experience.
     
  15. bumba

    bumba Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $9,437
    I get that, but TV contracts are in place and the Big East brand is carrying us. Not the F4 exposure any more. I doubt many of the current students fell in love & decided to go to BU at the age of 10.

    This is why we need to abandon the alumni HC strategy. If you want to be a power conference brand, you need a brand name coach.
     
    shoeevv likes this.
  16. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $8,100
    I agree with your premise but not sure how your conclusion ties into that. I think using basketball as a prominent marketing arm is a viable manner to achieve academic prestige. I want to keep our values but don’t really care where our coach comes fromz


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  17. knobcreekfan

    knobcreekfan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,384
    I will rephrase. A helluva lot more diverse than when I was there and improving.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2021
  18. knobcreekfan

    knobcreekfan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,384
    Yes, the 2 FF runs helped us tremendously in establishing our brand. However, to conclude that we must have frequent FF appearances to maintain a good brand and for the institution to continue to succeed is crazy. I won’t even get into the argument of large state schools versus a small, private school.

    Now, we got luck as sh*t to get to the championship in 2010 and 2011. We had two players that were not exactly highly recruited that just happened to go on to the NBA – one a lottery pick. A third that went on to be successful overseas. People act like we had some great strategy for recruiting and getting to a FF. We didn’t. And I am confident there are people from this board that were bashing that recruiting class and the coach.

    In 2010, we narrowly got by Murray State. Syracuse went on a 5:00 cold spell and allowed us to have an 11-0 run. Narrowly got by Michigan State. A bucket here or there doesn’t fall and we do not get to the 2nd or 3rd weekends.

    2011 we were what…14 – 9 in early Feb? Again, confident several people here would have been calling for the coach to be fired. We barely got into the tournament and through the 1st weekend.

    I want us to have a good basketball program, but I also understand what the ultimate goal of the school is. I also understand reality of budgets and endowments. If anyone here thinks we need to pay the HC more…or staff more…or build the practice facility…or spend more on recruiting, I am sure Ken would love to talk to you about how you can endow those things.
     
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  19. Eric

    Eric Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,546
    Whenever the funding of Butler Basketball gets brought up on this board, I always wonder how much has been contributed by the people *****ing about Barry being cheap.
     
    jeff, PharmDDawg, NCJon and 1 other person like this.
  20. BigHoss

    BigHoss Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $727
    My biggest gripe here isn't just LaVall, it's the supporting cast of Assistant Coaches we have on staff. It's an absolute joke.

    What on earth have Emerson Kampen and Will Vergolo done to warrant taking up a valuable spot on a Power Conference team bench? Is this seriously the best we can do? Or is it just what we can afford? I honestly want to know how Barry signed off on a young, inexperienced coach having THIS staff to lean on.

    Do you think it is a coincidence that none of these guys have even been remotely connected to jobs that would be a step up at other schools?

    Honestly, what DOES this staff do well?

    Do they recruit well? --- No, not really compared to our peers. We'll keep hyping up these "diamond in the rough 3 stars" who turn into below average players though.

    Do they game plan well? --- Absolutely not

    Do they develop players at an exceptional rate? --- I think there's enough guys who have gotten WORSE to firmly say NO. This was supposed to be LaVall and staff's strong suit, keep in mind.

    Are they great motivators? --- I can't speak to what happens behind closed doors, but LaVall and every guy on the staff seem about as vanilla as they come.

    The more I think about it, the more I wonder what the hell we are doing here.
     
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