Let's Play A Game With On/Off Court Stats

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by Jared Grubbs, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,119
    Its not just this season though. Last year, Fowler was significantly ahead of Wideman on the in/out team Offensive PPP, despite Wideman being one of the single most efficient sources of points per possession. I'm just curious, as to what's happening with the offense that you can remove a player who scores almost every time he shoot, and improve the teams output. Wideman trailed only Martin in Win Score, nearly doubling Nate Fowler (6.06 to 3.59) in similar minutes (20.47 to 17.37), which is a pretty good indicator of offensive value. In fact, on a per minute basis, he was by far the best on the team.

    • Win Score = Points + Steal + Offensive Rebounds + 0.5*(Defensive Rebounds +Assists + Blocks) – Turnovers – Field Goal Attempts – 0.5*(Free Throw Attemps + Personal Fouls)

    So again, I would love a good explanation as to how you remove Wideman and improve offensive output. Not saying it isnt happening, but I find it fascinating.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  2. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,589
    Shooting percentage can be deceptive. If your best player has your team’s best shooting percentage he’s not shooting nearly enough. Not saying that’s any sort of explanation in this scenario, I’m just saying don’t get bogged down by one thing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  3. I Am Butler

    I Am Butler Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,119
    Wideman wasn't the best player, just highly efficient, which is exactly what you want from your secondary scoring options.

    That's why I cited win score and efficiency. It is hard to find any individual metrics that argue Fowler over Wideman last year and same for Brunk this year. Yet, despite underperforming (compared to his alternatives) on an individual basis, the team performs better when he's in. Is he just incredible at clearing space and setting picks?
     
  4. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,589
    It’s mostly defense on that end. You’re right that the offensive season Wideman had went way under the radar. (I wasn’t insinuating that he was the best player but that the best player almost never has the highest shooting %.)
    Defense was not Tyler’s strength.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  5. WestLoopDog

    WestLoopDog Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $3,667
    I thought I would add my thoughts to this over analyzed discussions about on/off metrics. In watching the FLA game yesterday, there were at least two occasions where Fowler walled off the defenders as Baldwin was driving to the basket. Both times resulted in uncontested layups. These plays by Fowler don't show up in the boxscore, but they were very real and very impactful. However, they are reflected in the on/off offensive metrics. Without the "walling off" the shots may not have resulted in points. This is one example of how a player's presence on the court can result in favorable differentials even if it doesn't show up in traditional stats.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  6. dawgs2014

    dawgs2014 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $2,589
    Bingo


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     

Share This Page