New Big East

Discussion in 'Around the League' started by BUCovington93, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. Insane Dawg

    Insane Dawg Well-Known Member

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    Hoya1987- You are right JT2 is/was no more racist than say Jesse Jackson. He is a racist period. How many white players ever started at Georgetown?
     
  2. Title

    Title Well-Known Member

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    That is the stupidest thing you have ever said. Look at 12/13's Butler's team photo....Using your logic, Butler is "racist" too. Or maybe they both just get the best players that they can?

    [​IMG]
     
  3. halftime_floor_sweeper

    halftime_floor_sweeper Well-Known Member

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    Oh please. Gee didn't Xavier offer Kelan Martin .....................?
     
  4. firedupkaren

    firedupkaren Well-Known Member

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    We hardly "lost" Macura to Xavier. He was never going to come after Stevens left. To put that blame on anyone other than Stevens is ludicrous.
     
  5. indienapolis

    indienapolis Active Member

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    Yeah, I don't think we can underestimate how much of a blow it was to lose Stevens during this recruitment cycle. There's been a lot of criticism for BMill that I don't think is entirely fair given the situation he was handed. 3-4 years from now, I think we can make a more sober assessment of his recruiting acumen.

    As far as Blueitt specifically, I think losing Stevens was major, and I know its been mentioned here elsewhere, but despite all the talk of his/ his family's desire for him to play close to home, you can't underestimate a kids desire to put a little distance between him and his parents. I'm not saying he's not a good family oriented kid, but having your parents just down the street isn't something MOST teenagers would see as a positive when choosing a college.
     
  6. willisbrown

    willisbrown Well-Known Member

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    I agree, it's not fair to criticize Miller for Macura pulling the Butler plug once Stevens left for Boston, just wish he would have done it right away so no time was wasted on his recruitment any further. I think though it was very clear Stevens saying Bye-Bye to Butler was the nail in that coffin. The Xavier thing then picked up heavy steam after the fact. So I guess we didn't "lose" to Xavier, but they jumped on him and got him, someone we dearly wanted.

    With Bluiett it would be a recruiting loss and would sting. Them getting Macura only cuts the wound deeper.
     
  7. Grandpa Bulldog

    Grandpa Bulldog Member

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    pf1 and others: Brandon Miller is the men's basketball coach at Butler for the foreseeable future. He may not have been your choice, but was the choice of the person who was responsible for making the selection. It is past time to support the Bulldogs and that includes Brandon Miller!!
     
  8. Title

    Title Well-Known Member

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    Xavier offered JP Macura on June 24th, Brad Stevens was hired by the Celtics on July 3. So, if you subtract all of Brad Stevens time from Macura and start as if Miller was starting from scratch on July 4 (or whenever he eventually called him), you're talking about a week+ head start that Mack received. And, I'm not sure why you'd do that given he had been around all that spring (including on his official visit)

    But, I suppose that it's moot in that BU didn't even make it through his cut list. But lets not act like Xavier had been recruiting Macura long before Stevens left, they started at roughly the same time.
     
  9. indienapolis

    indienapolis Active Member

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    I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing. I was simply saying that Stevens was a huge draw for a lot of the recruits we are currently losing and some people seem quick to want to blame BMill. I'm not sure how he will pan out as a coach or a recruiter, but we will probably be able to make a better judgement in the coming years. That doesn't change the stakes for BMill to close the deal on some high level recruits for 2014-2015, but he's fighting an uphill battle after losing BU's best carrot (Stevens).
     
  10. ButlerGoalie

    ButlerGoalie Well-Known Member

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    Yikes. Not even going to get in the middle of this. As for the Hoyas and X fans, welcome to the board. Looking forward to many decades of battles. Sometimes the more fanatical of us can be a bit short-sighted, but we mean well. We'll probably struggle a bit in our transition, but don't worry, we'll catch up quickly. I'm looking forward to these battles, both recruiting and on the court.

    With Butler recruiting a lot of the same guys as X and Michigan, at least we're recruiting the right players. Now, we just need to start landing some.
     
  11. indienapolis

    indienapolis Active Member

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    I don't really disagree with much that you said here, and truth be told I was pulling for Jordan over Miller, but I think we can all agree that Stevens left at a very vulnerable time for Butler, and Miller is now saddled with the consequences/opportunity (depending on how you look at it). I just think that although the stakes are high, that we should at least give Miller a chance before we start calling for his head. I think if Stevens had stayed we might have landed both Macura and Bluiett, but since we'll never know it's really neither here nor there. Jordan might've given us a better shot at Bluiett, but again we'll never know. I'm not convinced that Bluiett ever REALLY wanted to stay so close to his hometown despite the lip-service paid to that idea.

    Yes, keep our expectations high, but I don't think we want to make a bad situation worse with a revolving door of coaches. I had hoped that we'd get at least a couple years with Stevens at the helm while BU situated itself in the Big East, but alas. These next two years were probably destined to be a reset recruiting-wise regardless of who took the reigns.
     
  12. Title

    Title Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Xavier has always gotten the recruits that they wanted in races with Butler with the one exception in November 2006. I wouldn't anticipate that changing too much, especially in the next couple classes.

    Maybe "own" is the wrong term, they just render BU kind of irrelevant.
     
  13. theenforcer13

    theenforcer13 #barlowing

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    What recruits? Macura and Howard are the only 2 recent ones offered by both schools.
     
  14. Irishdawg

    Irishdawg Banned User VIP Member

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    In the same sense though, they really can't afford to get rid of him so quickly either. You get rid of a guy after one year, what good, skilled coach that you believe is capable of winning in the Big East with subpar facilities and funds committed to the program is going to be wanting to come in and take over knowing that they only gave the last guy less than a full year to prove he could do it? It'll be a short list, if you get anybody.
     
  15. indienapolis

    indienapolis Active Member

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    Agreed.
     
  16. Title

    Title Well-Known Member

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    Why do people keep saying that or just implying that?

    The reason you hire coaches that meet certain basic thresholds for experience is that you don't get to "start over". The fact that our AD ignored really any kind of criterion another high major school would use in selecting a candidate, doesn't change the expectation that the job get done.

    THIS isn't his fault, but he'll bear the blame. What is his fault is not bringing in an assistant who is deeply connected to local, elite AAU. But thats minor compared to the other.

    If you don't have a greater expectation than that, what exactly was the point of not just having the same head coach have a season as an interim and reassess in March?
     
  17. Hoyahooligan

    Hoyahooligan Member

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    This is going to be my last post on the subject because I don't want to clutter a board where I'm a guest, but the following is a list of white players that were on the team under JT2, I have bolded the ones who have started for Georgetown, the ones in italics and underlined played in at least 20 games in a season so were clearly part of the rotation and not just bench warmers, but never started a game:

    David Blue, Vladimir Bosanac, Jeff Bullis, Jim Corcoran, Tom Dooley, David Dunn, Craig Esherick, Terry Fenlon, Ed Fitzgerald, Emmet Fitzgerald, Mark Gallagher, Brendan Gaughan, Trenton Hillier, John Irwin, Kurt Kaull, Brian Kelly, Dan Kelly, Rick Kentz, Tim Lambour, Tom Lang, Mike MacDermott, David Paulus, Mike Sabol, Mike Stokes, Bill Thomas.

    So no not a lot of white starters for Georgetown under JT2, but there were plenty who played and were more than walk ons and bench warmers.

    You might recognize Craig Esherick's name. Who he thought so little of because he was such a racist that he made him an assistant coach and then head coach upon his retirement.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2013
  18. Irishdawg

    Irishdawg Banned User VIP Member

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    I'll agree to disagree with you on that one pf1. Barry could say whatever he wanted, but the fact would remain that he would be throwing a former Butler player and one that was on the team when Barry was coaching (albeit it was the year that Miller had to sit out) out after less than a year on the job. The reason for which is "a desperation move when we hired him", or that you didn't think after less than a year on the job that he was the right guy long term. You'd have to offer a coach a heckuva lot more than Butler would be able to spend to convince me (if I was a coaching candidate) that after doing that to one of your own that there'd be any more loyalty towards a guy with no affiliation with the program (since I assume that's where they'd be looking). Not to mention the bridges you'd burn with the current players, assistant coaches, and Stevens, who still talks about how big of a Butler fan he still is for doing the same thing. IMO, this would have a much higher probability of backfiring than it would of succeeding.

    Edit: Not to mention the field day the media would have bashing the program and AD for not giving Brandon Miller what they deem as a fair shot. They spent basically the first half of last year lobbying for Kevin Ollie to get a multi-year guaranteed contract at UConn. It started even before their first game did last year, so l'd have to imagine they wouldn't ignore what Butler did.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  19. Bulldog Grit

    Bulldog Grit New Member

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    Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! Brandon Miller is tough. He isn't going to roll over and neither will these Dawgs!

    These Dawgs will play with heart. Heart, 100% effort, and attention to intangibles are better than skill and athleticism in most instances.

    Brandon Miller has more fire and expresses passion and charisma more so than Stevens. I would almost say Stevens' Flat Affect was detrimental to recruiting.

    Something I take complete pride in is the belief that these kids are molded into great young adults after graduating "Our Program!"
     
  20. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

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    All of you guys calling for Miller's head are losing it. Barry Collier and Jim Danko (as well as the BOT) have faith in him. He's not going anywhere any time soon, especially over losing this recruit. It's laughable. Now if you can't support Miller, and the decision made made by Collier, et al. (Especially this early in the process) then you're going to have a pretty miserable existence following this program. Might want to look around a bit.
     

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