NIL/Pay For Play Thread

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by bumba, Apr 23, 2022.

  1. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    Yeah, 100%. In theory, NIL should only be worthwhile/used by businesses in very limited circumstances - for the college athlete that has such a high profile there’s legitimate business value in the athlete’s endorsement.

    In practice, that’s not how it’s working (did anyone in Miami know who Nijel Pack was before last week? Does anyone know even now?) And it’s just going to get worse. It’s a disaster.
    ButlerProf likes this.
  2. NCJon

    NCJon Well-Known Member VIP Member

    I'll say it once again for those in the back: The NCAA has almost zero authority to regulate NIL.

    They can only regulate their member institutions involvement. Had they seen the writing on the wall when Ed O'Bannon sued, they might have been able to get ahead of it. They didn't. They lost in court, repeatedly. Whatever authority they once thought they had is now clearly gone and rightfully so.

    Unless Congress gives them a new antitrust exemption, they cannot do what many here seem to want them to do.
    bmradio99, Mr X and DawgDude like this.
  3. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    As a legal matter, you may be right. As a practical and moral matter, I’m not so sure.

    Spitballing here, but it seems the thing that champions of college athlete pay (shoutout Bilas) don’t want to acknowledge is that if interest in NCAA basketball craters, NCAA revenues crater. If NCAA revenues crater, scholarships for *hundreds of thousands* of college athletes will ultimately be at risk, all so that relatively few revenue sport athletes can temporarily receive more compensation.

    Essentially every sporting enterprise has some stars who are under-compensated by their leagues relative to their market value as a necessity to raise the interest in and revenues of the league more generally. For the ncaa, for instance, it could be argued that in order to “over compensate” hundreds of thousands of college athletes with athletic scholarships (for instance, I provided no real $$ value to Butler), it had to under compensate a few dozen basketball and football players with the rules it had in place.

    Basically, my argument is just that I think a lot of the crusaders for college athlete pay haven’t thought through that the end result may be an end to fervent interest in college athletics in general, which not only harms future exceptional revenue sport athletes they’re trying to help, but also will crush hundreds of thousands of others who ultimately greatly benefit - athletically and educationally - from the prior rules framework.
  4. estar20dawg

    estar20dawg Well-Known Member

    Wow, just looking for a big bag...that's what it has become, color me shocked no one could predict the hostage situations that are to follow...
  5. UDDawg

    UDDawg Well-Known Member

    Seriously, I do a double take each time I read that tweet. Is this really what we want as college basketball fans??
    Hinkle and estar20dawg like this.
  6. the_speakers_lab

    the_speakers_lab Well-Known Member

    Am I'm interpreting this correctly, Porter entered the Transfer Portal, hired an agent, threatened to go elsewhere unless he got NIL money, and is now thanking everyone for getting him paid?

    I can't wait for some player to hold out in season bc he feels he's not getting paid enough
    Hinkle, estar20dawg, beezer16 and 3 others like this.
  7. BigHoss

    BigHoss Well-Known Member

    What an absolute **** show this has become
    seadawg and ButlerProf like this.
  8. schoops

    schoops Well-Known Member

    I have to wonder how much of the money going to NIL is money that would have otherwise been donated directly to athletic depts. I'm sure it will take a few years of this to find out what the bottom line impact on schools turns out to be.
  9. Mr X

    Mr X Super Moderator

    Missed this earlier but this is good call since not going away now and don't want different topics talking about NIL/Pay for Play. I'll move posts and create a new thread (if anyone has any better ideas for a thread title holla at ya boy).
  10. Mr X

    Mr X Super Moderator

    I just want to give you props because you are so far the only person in this thread to successfully make the distinction between NIL & pay for play that needs to be made by people in general for reasons listed in twitter thread below. Myles Tate getting paid to post on social media for people to attend a blood drive or Jayden Taylor having a t-shirt people can buy is NIL which is good! Nijal Pack securing the bag to play for Miami is clear example of pay for play which is lot more nuanced of a conversation.

    bmradio99, estar20dawg and Hinkle like this.
  11. firedupkaren

    firedupkaren Well-Known Member

    It really boggles my mind that anyone villainies these kids with these decisions.

    Good for him! How about phrasing it this way? Porter wanted an NIL opportunity and felt the best way was to enter the portal and see what opportunities presented themselves. Then WSU put together a packaged that made him comfortable returning.

    I’m REALLY, really struggling to see the problem with determining your fair market value.
    bmradio99, NCJon and Mr X like this.
  12. Hinkle

    Hinkle Well-Known Member

    I don’t at ALL blame any of the athletes for doing what they’re doing. 0%. But as a fan of the sport, this is terrible, and I do think without change it could be the beginning of slow slog to the end of mass interest in college sports.
    jal8908, ButlerProf and seadawg like this.
  13. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    There are too many negative implications to mention, All of which, out weigh the positives.
    ButlerProf likes this.
  14. Shane Davis

    Shane Davis Well-Known Member


    Guess this would be the right thread to post this in.

    I believe it's the right thing, it's just getting past the optics of the situation. I think for most fans of college sports it's the fact that we've never had to look at students athletes in this way until now, we've had the luxury of viewing kids with this perception that they play simply for the love of the sport, and it's easy to be convinced of that when one figures that the vast majority of them don't go on to play a higher level of competition, so you might assume that where their values lie in the sport practically mirrors our values as well. This is uncharted territory we're witnessing in college basketball. Some might say it will make the game worse, and perhaps it will, but I will continue to support the right for a student who happens to be an athlete (or the other way around) to put himself out on the market to measure his value - It could get ugly if/when boosters get involved to help pay a player's NIL salary, but that's not the player's fault. Even if they don't play professionally after college, they're not doing anything that we wouldn't like the opportunity to do if given the chance.
    Mr X likes this.
  15. ButlerHomer

    ButlerHomer Well-Known Member

    Everything that's going wrong with the NIL deals falls on the NCAA. They stuck their head in the sand on player payment for so long even though it was inevitable for years. A more proactive organization would have found a way to make it work more fairly. Instead they resisted and eventually the government had to get involved and created the wild west scenario we have now.
  16. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Hi Cranjis. Just curious: Who are Chris Wirthwein and Skip Kappas?
  17. jal8908

    jal8908 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Very very wealthy local alums that are huge bball fans
  18. SCbulldogsfan4life

    SCbulldogsfan4life Well-Known Member

    You know how slow and ineffective of a beaurocracy you truly are when the Federal government reacts to something before you do.
    CMG, #60, ButlerHomer and 1 other person like this.
  19. butlerguy03

    butlerguy03 Well-Known Member

    Ed Carpenter should provide a free ride for recruits in the 2-seater at IMS.
    formz42 and Dawgsby1000 like this.
  20. bmradio99

    bmradio99 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Thanks Mr. X for posting that David Hale thread. It's so important. I'll repeat your words: Pay for play is not NIL.

    Individuals should be able to cut sponsorship/endorsement/speaking deals off of their name, image, or likeness. Full stop. If you don't actually believe that (which, fine, agree to disagree) then ANY angle you have on NIL is, well, nil. And if you're the free markets!!1!! type, then you should also believe that all of this will eventually shake out. Companies will set up deals where they see value. And they're finding value in a lot of formerly undervalued folks, like WBB players. Any NCAA regulation (thankfully not spearheaded by Mark Emmert) will have to tread lightly to crack down on pay for play (i.e. the name on the front of the jersey) while protecting the rights of an individual's likeness (the name on the back).
    NCJon, Mr X and estar20dawg like this.

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