NIL/Pay For Play Thread

Discussion in 'Butler Basketball' started by bumba, Apr 23, 2022.

  1. troggy

    troggy Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,145
    Totally agree but it seems way too easy to get around this distinction, so I'm not sure how it's ever supposed to work in the real world.
     
  2. butlerguy03

    butlerguy03 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $3,522
    Be on the actual team before agreeing to terms. That'll help. Nijel Pack agreed to terms on an NIL deal while a student at a different university. That's not NIL. Other than a dead-period, I can't imagine you could prevent them from at least talking before hand.
     
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  3. jal8908

    jal8908 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,016
    That was kind of my thought as well, no NIL conversations or agreements while in the portal.
     
  4. BUcheer

    BUcheer Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $8,882
    But where this is going off the rails is that kids are getting paid for their name*image*likeness in far greater sums than the services they are delivering. Is Nigel Pack—who hardly anyone in the Florida market knows—worth $400K a year to send out a few tweets or make an appearance or two? He’s being paid to play basketball for Miami despite whatever disclaimers his contract worked out. And make no mistake, these aren’t companies looking to attach themselves to a star athlete for marketing purposes (the money can be spent far more productively)—it’s the booster who owns the company trying to buy “his” team a trophy.
     
  5. troggy

    troggy Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $1,145
    Right, I don't know how you'd expect this to be effectively policed, even if the NCAA had teeth. You can essentially make anything look like NIL without too much trouble.
     
    halftime_floor_sweeper and Mr X like this.
  6. Mr X

    Mr X Super Moderator

    Money:
    $440
    You are correct there is a reason why one of the smartest posters on this board NCJon keeps saying NCAA does not have the ability to regulate this and has to do with the Supreme Court ruling on the Alston case.

    Let's suppose NCAA tries do what most people on this board are clamoring for and decides to make Nijel Pack ineligible to go to Miami due to getting a pay for play deal which is against the NCAA rules. The response from Miami compliance department would be to laugh and say, "**** you NCAA" and sue them for Pack's eligibility (that was literally their response publicly when NCAA decided it wanted to investigate one of their football NIL deals per newsletter I attached below). Because the NCAA lawyers previously did such a god awful job not differentiating between NIL and pay for play any remotely competent lawyer is going to argue penalizing Pack's eligibility impacts his ability to make money off NIL which the NCAA is now not allowed to do per precedent in Alston case. Thus, most judge's will just continue to dunk on the NCAA like they did in Supreme Court ruling and Pack will go back to popping bottles at some club in South Beach while getting ready for basketball season.

    Like it or not short of legislative law being passed by Congress which seems extremely unlikely neither NIL or pay for play are ever going away after that Supreme Court ruling.

    https://www.extrapointsmb.com/ncaa-nil-miami-byu-group-deal-investigation-lol/
     
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  7. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $19,862
    Thanks. Just looked them up…

    One is CEO of some marketing consulting company?

    The other is a lawyer who has been practicing law for 60 years?!

    Is that right?
     
  8. jal8908

    jal8908 Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $4,016
    Yep, they were both kind of legends among the active Phi Delts when we came back on campus and learned about how much they contributed to renovating the house and getting the chapter back.

    I'd be willing to bet Wirthwein is a top 10 donor to the Athletic department. Is on just about every road trip and you know the fun signs they show on all the TV broadcasts above the basket on the baseline? Those are his.

    Skip is probably up there too but as certain with him.

    They probably aren't the type of guys that would get much ROI on a NIL deal given what they do, but they certainly would be in position to fund something if they wanted to.
     
  9. boalsdawg

    boalsdawg Member

    Jay Sandhu is probably the richest alumni Butler has. Even moreso than GTime The Baby Faced Assassin Gordon Hayward. Hopefully Butler can convince Mr. Sandhu and his family to contribute towards a NIL package for the Butler Basketball program. Maybe a yearly, recurring, donation? Cars and Indianapolis go hand in hand. This is an easy one.
     
  10. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $19,862
    Have a picture of those signs? I have no idea what you’re talking about.

    I looked up Wirthwein’s company. 5metacom. It’s just an ad agency. Those are a dime a dozen, but some of those contracts can be huge (my fiancé works for an agency in healthcare and runs a product launch for a brand paying $8M per year), so if they are one of the big ones in their area, I can see how it can be successful. Revenues of 100M and profit of 40-60% of that is possible, so assuming this guy owns it or part of it, the numbers add up. I have zero clue about any of their areas of expertise, so no idea what contracts in that space actually look like, but I know big companies overpay for this type of work all the time.
     
  11. Jared Grubbs

    Jared Grubbs Administrator Staff Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $20,169
    You are right that legislation by congress will be needed to change things at this point. I think eventually that happens though. I don't want to be dramatic and say this kills the NCAA, but it has a massive change on the entire landscape, and I don't think it's one for the better. I think there are a lot of different plans that could be drawn up that would allow college kids to profit while maintaining some competitive balance and allowing the money at the top to still flow down to the bottom and fund all college sports and lower levels. Eventually the NCAA is probably going to have to get legal permission to implement some such plan.
     
  12. schoops

    schoops Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $594
    When their alums pony up tons of NIL money to buy a team they are basically going to own the coaches. It's going to be a crazy next few years.
     
    ButlerProf likes this.
  13. pjohnsto2003

    pjohnsto2003 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $8,774
    Serious question - what happens when a big-time recruit chooses a small school in a large market and makes more in NIL in a year than the coach does with his salary? It’s bound to happen at some point, and it’s just going to feel off.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
  14. ButlerFan89

    ButlerFan89 Active Member

    Money:
    $266
    Umm, a former player is the richest and I’m not talking about NBA players. I believe a ‘90 grad if memory serves.


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
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  15. seadawg

    seadawg Well-Known Member VIP Member

    Money:
    $9,937
    Doyle has a good story in the Indy Star on the NCAA under Emmert's watch. No punches are pulled.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2022
  16. boalsdawg

    boalsdawg Member

    "ButlerFan89", please quit being coy and spill the beans then. Here is a link to 1990 seniors, https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/butler/1990.html

    I highly doubt there is a 1990 graduate richer than Mr. Sandhu. NYX is an international company with over 2400 employees and $600 million in yearly sales.
     
  17. ButlerFan89

    ButlerFan89 Active Member

    Money:
    $266
    It’s not called coy, it’s being respectful to someone’s privacy as when one makes that kind of money, sometimes they want to be left alone. I only brought it up to correct you that Jay is probably not the wealthiest. Let’s just say, because it was written in the press at the time, the person sold his company for over $400m to Intuit and he was the majority shareholder of this front office software. And he was on the list you provided. Let’s just agree that Sandhu may not be the richest. If he sold his family company today, yes, he would probably be the richest. And on a side note, did you know Sandhu was a cheerleader and a TKE?


    Sent from my iPhone using Butler Hoops
     
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  18. boalsdawg

    boalsdawg Member

    Excellent. The more rich Butler alumni the better. How much of that $400 million do you think Rick personally got?

    I've never seen or heard his name mentioned as a donor. Maybe he just doesn't want to give his money to Butler, which is fine. But if he's still invested in the program, hopefully he understands the way this thing is trending, and wants Butler to be successful in a modern day NCAA. A nice infusion of NIL $ would certainly be appreciated by the program.

    I did not know Jay was a cheerleader. The cheer team should get him out there for a halftime routine.
     
    bubby likes this.
  19. PSUButlerFan

    PSUButlerFan Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $19,862
    So $600M in sales… likely a 3-6x multiple (no clue what comps are for that industry so just being generic) means the company is worth, say, 2.5B. If that guy has a 10% stake, he’s worth 250M, which is more than Gordon.

    And means in a 400M sale to Intuit (what company is this? I might actually be able to get real data here) would mean this other guy would need to own 62.5% to be equal. Rare in my world but not impossible.

    Nonetheless, good to see Butler has multiple rich alums that could be potential donors.
     
  20. godogs91

    godogs91 Well-Known Member

    Money:
    $4,234
    Virtually certain that Rick and Anna's names are on the donor wall outside the Wildman Room.

    Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
     
    FRENCH DAWG likes this.

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